Issues with org-mode and LaTeX export.

Issues with org-mode and LaTeX export.

[gerald.jean]

Hello,

I am new to org-mode and I have a few issues with it.  First, I am running
org-mode version 5.23a from Emacs 22.3.1 on a Linux RedHat machine.

1.- Following advice in the org manual I added the following lines to my
.emacs.

(add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.org\\'" . org-mode))
(global-set-key "\C-cl" 'org-store-link)
(global-set-key "\C-ca" 'org-agenda)
(global-set-key "\C-cb" 'org-iswitchb)
(setq org-log-done t)

when I open a *.org file, org-mode is turned on OK.  But none of the
"org-export-latex-*" variables are defined at this point?

Now if I do C-c C-e l then a LaTeX file is produced, not with the options I
want though (see point 2), and "some" of the "org-export-latex-*" variables
seemed to be defined now; for example "org-export-latex-classes" is defined
with the default definition, but not all LaTeX related variables are
defined, for example "org-export-latex-default-packages-alist" is not
defined; henced I can't even find out what are the default packages?

What is going on here?  Do I have something missing in my .emacs file?

2.- Now, I want to use different packages, for example

\usepackage[latin9]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[english, francais]{babel}

I posted about this yesterday and I got the following reply from Thomas S.
Dye, thanks Thomas,

Perhaps the org-export-latex-classes variable is mis-configured.  IIUC, the
[EXTRA] macro needs to be present:

      If you need more control about the sequence in which the header is
      built
      up, or if you want to exclude one of these building blocks for a
      particular
      class, you can use the following macro-like placeholders.

       [DEFAULT-PACKAGES]      \usepackage statements for default packages
       [NO-DEFAULT-PACKAGES]   do not include any of the default packages
       [PACKAGES]              \usepackage statements for packages
       [NO-PACKAGES]           do not include the packages
       [EXTRA]                 the stuff from #+LaTeX_HEADER
       [NO-EXTRA]              do not include #+LaTeX_HEADER stuff
       [BEAMER-HEADER-EXTRA]   the beamer extra headers

Unfortunaetly this is not enough details for my little knowledge of elisp!
Could someone provide me with a clear example of what needs to go in the
.emacs file for packages with options and correspondingly what needs to go
in the org file for that example.  Does the .emacs file needs to be
modified every time one wants to add a new package?

Thanks for any support,

Gérald Jean
Conseiller senior en statistiques,
VP Actuariat et Solutions d'assurances,
Desjardins Groupe d'Assurances Générales
télephone            : (418) 835-4900 poste (7639)
télecopieur          : (418) 835-6657
courrier électronique: gerald.jean@dgag.ca

"We believe in God, others must bring Data."

W. Edwards Deming

Re: Issues with org-mode and LaTeX export.

[Tassilo Horn]

gerald.jean@dgag.ca writes:

Hi Gerald,

> 1.- Following advice in the org manual I added the following lines to my
> .emacs.
>
> (add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.org\\'" . org-mode))
> (global-set-key "\C-cl" 'org-store-link)
> (global-set-key "\C-ca" 'org-agenda)
> (global-set-key "\C-cb" 'org-iswitchb)
> (setq org-log-done t)
>
> when I open a *.org file, org-mode is turned on OK.  But none of the
> "org-export-latex-*" variables are defined at this point?

That's because at that point org is not loaded, but only registered at
the autoloading facility.  As soon as you invoke one of them (e.g. with
a keybinding) org is loaded, and then the missing variables will be
defined as well.

But a variable doesn't need to be defvared before setting them, so you
can simply add

  (setq org-export-latex-foobar "some nice setting")

to your emacs file although that variable isn't known at that time.
When org is loaded your values won't be overridden.

> 2.- Now, I want to use different packages, for example
>
> \usepackage[latin9]{inputenc}
> \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}

I think the those should be added automatically, and the encoding is
determined by the org file's encoding.

> \usepackage[english, francais]{babel}
>
> I posted about this yesterday and I got the following reply from Thomas S.
> Dye, thanks Thomas,

I didn't read that, but...

> Perhaps the org-export-latex-classes variable is mis-configured.  IIUC, the
> [EXTRA] macro needs to be present:

... I don't think that variable is the right thing here.

> Unfortunaetly this is not enough details for my little knowledge of
> elisp!  Could someone provide me with a clear example of what needs to
> go in the .emacs file for packages with options and correspondingly
> what needs to go in the org file for that example.

I think this should do what you want, e.g. enable babel with english and
francais options:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(setq org-export-latex-packages-alist
      '(("english, francais" "babel" nil)))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

> Does the .emacs file needs to be modified every time one wants to add
> a new package?

If you want a new package in every exported document, add an entry of
form (OPTIONS PACKAGE nil) to the list above.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: Issues with org-mode and LaTeX export.

[Giovanni Ridolfi]

gerald.jean@dgag.ca writes:

> Hello,
>
> I am new to org-mode and I have a few issues with it.  First, I am running
> org-mode version 5.23a from Emacs 22.3.1 on a Linux RedHat machine.

Well, Gerald,  this version is *really* ancient (I think nobody here is
running it).

Would you mind to upgrade, at least to the current stable version 7.01h?

You can download the 7.01h here:

http://orgmode.org/index.html#sec-2

and follow the instructions how to set up AND ACTIVATE it at:

http://orgmode.org/manual/Installation.html#Installation

and, please, do remember to activate Org-mode:

http://orgmode.org/manual/Activation.html#Activation

> when I open a *.org file, org-mode is turned on OK.  But none of the
> "org-export-latex-*" variables are defined at this point?
Perhaps they were *not* defined in 5.23a version.

Please, upgrade your org-mode.

cheers,
Giovanni

RE Re: Issues with org-mode and LaTeX export.

[gerald.jean]

Hello,

first thanks Tassilo for your reply, it did help somehow but there is still
things I don't understand, see below.

emacs-orgmode-bounces+gerald.jean=dgag.ca@gnu.org a écrit sur 2010/10/21
11:03:48 :

> gerald.jean@dgag.ca writes:
>
> Hi Gerald,
>
> > 1.- Following advice in the org manual I added the following lines to
my
> > .emacs.
> >
> > (add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.org\\'" . org-mode))
> > (global-set-key "\C-cl" 'org-store-link)
> > (global-set-key "\C-ca" 'org-agenda)
> > (global-set-key "\C-cb" 'org-iswitchb)
> > (setq org-log-done t)
> >
> > when I open a *.org file, org-mode is turned on OK.  But none of the
> > "org-export-latex-*" variables are defined at this point?
>
> That's because at that point org is not loaded, but only registered at
> the autoloading facility.  As soon as you invoke one of them (e.g. with
> a keybinding) org is loaded, and then the missing variables will be
> defined as well.
>
> But a variable doesn't need to be defvared before setting them, so you
> can simply add
>
>   (setq org-export-latex-foobar "some nice setting")
>
> to your emacs file although that variable isn't known at that time.
> When org is loaded your values won't be overridden.
>
> > 2.- Now, I want to use different packages, for example
> >
> > \usepackage[latin9]{inputenc}
> > \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
>
> I think the those should be added automatically, and the encoding is
> determined by the org file's encoding.
>
> > \usepackage[english, francais]{babel}
> >
> > I posted about this yesterday and I got the following reply from Thomas
S.
> > Dye, thanks Thomas,
>
> I didn't read that, but...
>
> > Perhaps the org-export-latex-classes variable is mis-configured.  IIUC,
the
> > [EXTRA] macro needs to be present:
>
> ... I don't think that variable is the right thing here.
>
> > Unfortunaetly this is not enough details for my little knowledge of
> > elisp!  Could someone provide me with a clear example of what needs to
> > go in the .emacs file for packages with options and correspondingly
> > what needs to go in the org file for that example.
>
> I think this should do what you want, e.g. enable babel with english and
> francais options:
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> (setq org-export-latex-packages-alist
>       '(("english, francais" "babel" nil)))
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> > Does the .emacs file needs to be modified every time one wants to add
> > a new package?
>
> If you want a new package in every exported document, add an entry of
> form (OPTIONS PACKAGE nil) to the list above.
>

That works, thanks, but when do you use "#+LATEX_HEADER:" then?  I thought
that if I wanted a package just for this one org file that it was the way
to specify it, sure doesn't work for me?

I also looked at the manual to selectively export a part of the org file.
They talk about the "org-export-select-tags" and "org-export-exclude-tags";
these variables don't even exist?  They never explain how to create them
and how to set them?  They never explain neither how and where to set the
tags once the variables are set?

Any light here?  Thanks again,

Gérald


> Bye,
> Tassilo
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: RE Re: Issues with org-mode and LaTeX export.

[Tassilo Horn]

gerald.jean@dgag.ca writes:

Hi Gerald,

>> I think this should do what you want, e.g. enable babel with english
>> and francais options:
>>
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>> (setq org-export-latex-packages-alist
>>       '(("english, francais" "babel" nil)))
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>>
>> > Does the .emacs file needs to be modified every time one wants to add
>> > a new package?
>>
>> If you want a new package in every exported document, add an entry of
>> form (OPTIONS PACKAGE nil) to the list above.
>
> That works, thanks, but when do you use "#+LATEX_HEADER:" then?

I don't use the LaTeX export at all (at least regularily). :-)

> I thought that if I wanted a package just for this one org file that
> it was the way to specify it, sure doesn't work for me?

Yes, the docs say so.  I had the impression that you want to enable
babel for each exported org file, so I chose the version above.  But you
can also use

#+LATEX_HEADER: "\usepackage[english, francais]{babel}"

in your org file, which should have the same effect.

> I also looked at the manual to selectively export a part of the org
> file.  They talk about the "org-export-select-tags" and
> "org-export-exclude-tags"; these variables don't even exist?

They do.  Are you still using that old org version 5.x?  If so, well,
then maybe there were no such variables.  And somewhen in org version
6.x the export facilities were completely rewritten, so I guess you are
pretty alone with your problems unless you get a recent version.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: RE Re: Issues with org-mode and LaTeX export.

[Thomas S. Dye]

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Aloha Gerald,

I don't know if you saw the earlier message.  Your org-mode is out of  
date.  You should update according to the instructions in that message.

Also, have you seen Worg?  http://orgmode.org/worg

Once you've upgraded to a recent version of org-mode, then the LaTeX  
export tutorial there might help get you over the steep part of the  
learning curve:
http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-latex-export.php

hth,
Tom

On Oct 21, 2010, at 6:56 AM, gerald.jean@dgag.ca wrote:

> Hello,
>
> first thanks Tassilo for your reply, it did help somehow but there  
> is still
> things I don't understand, see below.
>
> emacs-orgmode-bounces+gerald.jean=dgag.ca@gnu.org a écrit sur  
> 2010/10/21
> 11:03:48 :
>
>> gerald.jean@dgag.ca writes:
>>
>> Hi Gerald,
>>
>>> 1.- Following advice in the org manual I added the following lines  
>>> to
> my
>>> .emacs.
>>>
>>> (add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.org\\'" . org-mode))
>>> (global-set-key "\C-cl" 'org-store-link)
>>> (global-set-key "\C-ca" 'org-agenda)
>>> (global-set-key "\C-cb" 'org-iswitchb)
>>> (setq org-log-done t)
>>>
>>> when I open a *.org file, org-mode is turned on OK.  But none of the
>>> "org-export-latex-*" variables are defined at this point?
>>
>> That's because at that point org is not loaded, but only registered  
>> at
>> the autoloading facility.  As soon as you invoke one of them (e.g.  
>> with
>> a keybinding) org is loaded, and then the missing variables will be
>> defined as well.
>>
>> But a variable doesn't need to be defvared before setting them, so  
>> you
>> can simply add
>>
>>  (setq org-export-latex-foobar "some nice setting")
>>
>> to your emacs file although that variable isn't known at that time.
>> When org is loaded your values won't be overridden.
>>
>>> 2.- Now, I want to use different packages, for example
>>>
>>> \usepackage[latin9]{inputenc}
>>> \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
>>
>> I think the those should be added automatically, and the encoding is
>> determined by the org file's encoding.
>>
>>> \usepackage[english, francais]{babel}
>>>
>>> I posted about this yesterday and I got the following reply from  
>>> Thomas
> S.
>>> Dye, thanks Thomas,
>>
>> I didn't read that, but...
>>
>>> Perhaps the org-export-latex-classes variable is mis-configured.   
>>> IIUC,
> the
>>> [EXTRA] macro needs to be present:
>>
>> ... I don't think that variable is the right thing here.
>>
>>> Unfortunaetly this is not enough details for my little knowledge of
>>> elisp!  Could someone provide me with a clear example of what  
>>> needs to
>>> go in the .emacs file for packages with options and correspondingly
>>> what needs to go in the org file for that example.
>>
>> I think this should do what you want, e.g. enable babel with  
>> english and
>> francais options:
>>
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>> (setq org-export-latex-packages-alist
>>      '(("english, francais" "babel" nil)))
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>>
>>> Does the .emacs file needs to be modified every time one wants to  
>>> add
>>> a new package?
>>
>> If you want a new package in every exported document, add an entry of
>> form (OPTIONS PACKAGE nil) to the list above.
>>
>
> That works, thanks, but when do you use "#+LATEX_HEADER:" then?  I  
> thought
> that if I wanted a package just for this one org file that it was  
> the way
> to specify it, sure doesn't work for me?
>
> I also looked at the manual to selectively export a part of the org  
> file.
> They talk about the "org-export-select-tags" and "org-export-exclude- 
> tags";
> these variables don't even exist?  They never explain how to create  
> them
> and how to set them?  They never explain neither how and where to  
> set the
> tags once the variables are set?
>
> Any light here?  Thanks again,
>
> Gérald
>
>
>> Bye,
>> Tassilo
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode


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_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: RE Re: Issues with org-mode and LaTeX export.

[gerald.jean]

Thanks again Tassilo,

here is what I tried.

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> a écrit sur 2010/10/21 13:42:59 :

> gerald.jean@dgag.ca writes:
>
> Hi Gerald,
>
> >> I think this should do what you want, e.g. enable babel with english
> >> and francais options:
> >>
> >> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> >> (setq org-export-latex-packages-alist
> >>       '(("english, francais" "babel" nil)))
> >> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
> >>
> >> > Does the .emacs file needs to be modified every time one wants to
add
> >> > a new package?
> >>
> >> If you want a new package in every exported document, add an entry of
> >> form (OPTIONS PACKAGE nil) to the list above.
> >
> > That works, thanks, but when do you use "#+LATEX_HEADER:" then?
>
> I don't use the LaTeX export at all (at least regularily). :-)
>
> > I thought that if I wanted a package just for this one org file that
> > it was the way to specify it, sure doesn't work for me?
>
> Yes, the docs say so.  I had the impression that you want to enable
> babel for each exported org file, so I chose the version above.  But you
> can also use
>
You were right for the babel package, I use it all the time.  But some
other packages not so often

> #+LATEX_HEADER: "\usepackage[english, francais]{babel}"
>
> in your org file, which should have the same effect.

I tried this:

#+LATEX_HEADER: "\usepackage{longtable}"

No effects?

>
> > I also looked at the manual to selectively export a part of the org
> > file.  They talk about the "org-export-select-tags" and
> > "org-export-exclude-tags"; these variables don't even exist?
>
> They do.  Are you still using that old org version 5.x?  If so, well,
> then maybe there were no such variables.  And somewhen in org version
> 6.x the export facilities were completely rewritten, so I guess you are
> pretty alone with your problems unless you get a recent version.

For the time being I am stuck with this version.  I am sending a request to
our IT group to upgrade Emacs to the most recent version for the version of
RedHat we have, this should have a more recent version of org-mode, if I am
lucky that should be done in a couple weeks.  In the mean time I will
manually add, or exclude, what I want from the exported "*.tex" file.

For the little I have done with org mode I still think it looks like a
great package and I am planning to learn to use it better so I use it more.
Thanks to all contributors.

Cheers,

Gérald
>
> Bye,
> Tassilo

Re: RE Re: Issues with org-mode and LaTeX export.

[Erik Iverson]

> 
> For the time being I am stuck with this version.  I am sending a request to
> our IT group to upgrade Emacs to the most recent version for the version of
> RedHat we have, this should have a more recent version of org-mode, if I am
> lucky that should be done in a couple weeks.  In the mean time I will
> manually add, or exclude, what I want from the exported "*.tex" file.

Do you have write access to your home directory?  That's all you need
to install the latest and greatest. Although I do not know how org 7
works with your version of Emacs.  Probably smart to have them
upgrade since there are tons of improvements in Emacs, and it's,
you know, free.

Re: RE Re: Issues with org-mode and LaTeX export.

[gerald.jean]

Erik Iverson <eriki@ccbr.umn.edu> a écrit sur 2010/10/21 14:26:51 :

>
> >
> > For the time being I am stuck with this version.  I am sending a
request to
> > our IT group to upgrade Emacs to the most recent version for the
version of
> > RedHat we have, this should have a more recent version of org-mode, if
I am
> > lucky that should be done in a couple weeks.  In the mean time I will
> > manually add, or exclude, what I want from the exported "*.tex" file.
>
> Do you have write access to your home directory?  That's all you need
> to install the latest and greatest. Although I do not know how org 7
> works with your version of Emacs.  Probably smart to have them
> upgrade since there are tons of improvements in Emacs, and it's,
> you know, free.
>

Yes I do have write access to my home.  I do manage ESS versions, AucTeX
versions and a full TeXLive distribution that way.  But I do find this is
enough, I am not very efficient at system maintenance and do have other
work to do.  Hence I'll wait a little and let the "experts" do a system
wide installation.

Gérald

Re: RE Re: Issues with org-mode and LaTeX export.

[Nick Dokos]

gerald.jean@dgag.ca wrote:

> I tried this:
> 
> #+LATEX_HEADER: "\usepackage{longtable}"
> 
> No effects?
> 

AFAIK, the quotes are not necessary, but the reason it's not
working is indeed that your version of org-mode doesn't know about 
LATEX_HEADER at all.

It was implemented with this commit:

commit 20364d043a51c3c71493369c58a43b49566dbdaa
Author: Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>
Date:   Thu Oct 2 15:00:14 2008 +0200

    Implement #+LATEX_HEADER special.
    
    Proposed by Austin Frank and apparently also by Russel Adams.


which I believe appeared in

    release_6.08

Note that the commit is two years old.

> >
> > > I also looked at the manual to selectively export a part of the org
> > > file.  They talk about the "org-export-select-tags" and
> > > "org-export-exclude-tags"; these variables don't even exist?
> >
> > They do.  Are you still using that old org version 5.x?  If so, well,
> > then maybe there were no such variables.  And somewhen in org version
> > 6.x the export facilities were completely rewritten, so I guess you are
> > pretty alone with your problems unless you get a recent version.
> 
> For the time being I am stuck with this version.  I am sending a request to
> our IT group to upgrade Emacs to the most recent version for the version of
> RedHat we have, this should have a more recent version of org-mode, if I am
> lucky that should be done in a couple weeks.  In the mean time I will
> manually add, or exclude, what I want from the exported "*.tex" file.
> 

A couple of weeks?!?  And you are not even sure which version of emacs
and org-mode you are going to get? I'd say, build your own: get
emacs/orgmode from the git mirror and build it yourself, install it in
your home directory if necessary. Even if it takes you a week or two to
get it done, at the end of it you'll be much better off at the end of
it.

If you have a community of users, this might be more difficult, but maybe
you can exercise concerted pressure on your IT dept: they might be more
willing to listen to ten people than to one.

If you are reasonably comfortable with git and make, it should only take
an hour or so to update/build/install; and assuming you stay with
"released" versions, you will only have to do that every couple of
months.

In addition, depending on what emacs version you have, you might be able
to run recent org-mode even if your emas is old (certainly on emacs 23,
probably on emacs 22, and just maybe on emacs 21, although I'm not sure
about these). That might be enough for your purposes and it reduces
time requirements to just a few minutes every month or two.

FWIW, the only use I have of whatever emacs gets installed with a system
is to bootstrap the latest emacs/orgmode: after that, it's deleted (or
at least, never used again).

Nick

Re: RE Re: Issues with org-mode and LaTeX export.

[Scot Becker]

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I do hear you about not wanting to add maintenance overhead to yourself, but
when they install the new Emacs, you even then may find you need a more
recent recent org-mode release in your home directory.  It does come with
Emacs, to be sure, but they've been quite conservative about their cutoff
dates, so even a brand new Emacs version typically has an org-mode version
which has been significantly improved upon.


sb

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:

> gerald.jean@dgag.ca wrote:
>
> > I tried this:
> >
> > #+LATEX_HEADER: "\usepackage{longtable}"
> >
> > No effects?
> >
>
> AFAIK, the quotes are not necessary, but the reason it's not
> working is indeed that your version of org-mode doesn't know about
> LATEX_HEADER at all.
>
> It was implemented with this commit:
>
> commit 20364d043a51c3c71493369c58a43b49566dbdaa
> Author: Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>
> Date:   Thu Oct 2 15:00:14 2008 +0200
>
>    Implement #+LATEX_HEADER special.
>
>    Proposed by Austin Frank and apparently also by Russel Adams.
>
>
> which I believe appeared in
>
>    release_6.08
>
> Note that the commit is two years old.
>
> > >
> > > > I also looked at the manual to selectively export a part of the org
> > > > file.  They talk about the "org-export-select-tags" and
> > > > "org-export-exclude-tags"; these variables don't even exist?
> > >
> > > They do.  Are you still using that old org version 5.x?  If so, well,
> > > then maybe there were no such variables.  And somewhen in org version
> > > 6.x the export facilities were completely rewritten, so I guess you are
> > > pretty alone with your problems unless you get a recent version.
> >
> > For the time being I am stuck with this version.  I am sending a request
> to
> > our IT group to upgrade Emacs to the most recent version for the version
> of
> > RedHat we have, this should have a more recent version of org-mode, if I
> am
> > lucky that should be done in a couple weeks.  In the mean time I will
> > manually add, or exclude, what I want from the exported "*.tex" file.
> >
>
> A couple of weeks?!?  And you are not even sure which version of emacs
> and org-mode you are going to get? I'd say, build your own: get
> emacs/orgmode from the git mirror and build it yourself, install it in
> your home directory if necessary. Even if it takes you a week or two to
> get it done, at the end of it you'll be much better off at the end of
> it.
>
> If you have a community of users, this might be more difficult, but maybe
> you can exercise concerted pressure on your IT dept: they might be more
> willing to listen to ten people than to one.
>
> If you are reasonably comfortable with git and make, it should only take
> an hour or so to update/build/install; and assuming you stay with
> "released" versions, you will only have to do that every couple of
> months.
>
> In addition, depending on what emacs version you have, you might be able
> to run recent org-mode even if your emas is old (certainly on emacs 23,
> probably on emacs 22, and just maybe on emacs 21, although I'm not sure
> about these). That might be enough for your purposes and it reduces
> time requirements to just a few minutes every month or two.
>
> FWIW, the only use I have of whatever emacs gets installed with a system
> is to bootstrap the latest emacs/orgmode: after that, it's deleted (or
> at least, never used again).
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
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