* resheduling from agenda buffer @ 2007-09-28 1:15 Richard G Riley 2007-09-28 14:07 ` Carsten Dominik 2007-09-28 15:19 ` Bastien 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Richard G Riley @ 2007-09-28 1:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: org-mode Two questions: 1) When following the instruction from the following link and rescheduling from the agenda buffer, why do I always get "Item scheduled for nil" in the message bufffer? See: http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/org.mode.day.planner.php#sec8 (briefly review upcoming week) and 2) What is the reason behind having to manually "refresh" after a reschedule in the agenda buffer, why does it not do it automatically? (ps Carsten, if you are reading this I found the issue with org-return-follows-link - it has to be set before loading Org so cant be used in normal customization block). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: resheduling from agenda buffer 2007-09-28 1:15 resheduling from agenda buffer Richard G Riley @ 2007-09-28 14:07 ` Carsten Dominik 2007-09-29 12:45 ` Carsten Dominik 2007-09-28 15:19 ` Bastien 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Carsten Dominik @ 2007-09-28 14:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard G Riley; +Cc: org-mode On Sep 28, 2007, at 3:15, Richard G Riley wrote: > > Two questions: > > 1) When following the instruction from the following link and > rescheduling from the agenda buffer, why do I always get > > "Item scheduled for nil" in the message bufffer? his is just a bug, fixed now for the next version. > 2) What is the reason behind having to manually "refresh" after a > reschedule in the agenda buffer, why does it not do it automatically? Initially the reason was technical. Constructing the agenda can take a second or more, to automatically reconstructing it after each change forbids itself. Just moving around a changed line can be difficult. However, after giving up on trying to change everything live, I now happen to think that this is in fact good. What you really do is look at a list of tasks and appointments, and you do want to push things around. I really like to be able to modify several lines before getting a rearranged display. For example: - When things move around with each change I make, I constantly have to follow the changes with my eyes and memory, this is more tiring. - I change a TODO entry to DONE. That means it should not even be in the agenda anymore, and a live update would just get rid of the item. If you made a mistake in marking it done, it is hard to find the entry back and change it back. - I want to reschedule an item to next week. Will the display then move to next week? So I need to go back to today to continue working? Things like this. You *do* get visual feedback that an entry has been modified, and "r" is not hard to press. So even if I knew how to change it, I would not want to do it. > (ps Carsten, if you are reading this I found the issue with > org-return-follows-link - it has to be set before loading Org so cant > be > used in normal customization block). Yes, the docstring of that variable says so. - Carsten ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: resheduling from agenda buffer 2007-09-28 14:07 ` Carsten Dominik @ 2007-09-29 12:45 ` Carsten Dominik 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Carsten Dominik @ 2007-09-29 12:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: org-mode, Richard G Riley Sorry for only repeating what was said before - I wrote this in an airplane and was not aware how far this thread had gone. You guys had it all figured out. I agree that the best solution is to provide a proper marker in the agenda when something has moved, but only move it with "r". It will work like this in 5.11. Thanks. - Carsten On Sep 28, 2007, at 16:07, Carsten Dominik wrote: > > On Sep 28, 2007, at 3:15, Richard G Riley wrote: > >> >> Two questions: >> >> 1) When following the instruction from the following link and >> rescheduling from the agenda buffer, why do I always get >> >> "Item scheduled for nil" in the message bufffer? > > his is just a bug, fixed now for the next version. > >> 2) What is the reason behind having to manually "refresh" after a >> reschedule in the agenda buffer, why does it not do it automatically? > > Initially the reason was technical. Constructing the agenda can take > a second or more, to automatically reconstructing it after each change > forbids itself. Just moving around a changed line can be difficult. > > However, after giving up on trying to change everything live, I now > happen to think that this is in fact good. What you really do is look > at a list of tasks and appointments, and you do want to push things > around. I really like to be able to modify several lines before > getting a rearranged display. For example: > > - When things move around with each change I make, I constantly > have to follow the changes with my eyes and memory, this is more > tiring. > > - I change a TODO entry to DONE. That means it should not even be > in the agenda anymore, and a live update would just get rid of > the item. If you made a mistake in marking it done, it is hard to > find the entry back and change it back. > > - I want to reschedule an item to next week. Will the display then > move > to next week? So I need to go back to today to continue working? > > Things like this. You *do* get visual feedback that an entry has been > modified, and "r" is not hard to press. > So even if I knew how to change it, I would not want to do it. > >> (ps Carsten, if you are reading this I found the issue with >> org-return-follows-link - it has to be set before loading Org so cant >> be >> used in normal customization block). > > Yes, the docstring of that variable says so. > > - Carsten > > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > -- Carsten Dominik Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek" Universiteit van Amsterdam Kruislaan 403 NL-1098SJ Amsterdam phone: +31 20 525 7477 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: resheduling from agenda buffer 2007-09-28 1:15 resheduling from agenda buffer Richard G Riley 2007-09-28 14:07 ` Carsten Dominik @ 2007-09-28 15:19 ` Bastien 2007-09-28 15:30 ` Richard G Riley 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2007-09-28 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 297 bytes --] Richard G Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes: > 1) When following the instruction from the following link and > rescheduling from the agenda buffer, why do I always get > > "Item scheduled for nil" in the message bufffer? I think this is a bug. Try this patch (also fixing small typos.) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #2: org.el.patch --] [-- Type: text/x-diff, Size: 2299 bytes --] diff -u /home/guerry/elisp/testing/org/org.el /home/guerry/elisp/testing/bzg/org.el --- /home/guerry/elisp/testing/org/org.el 2007-09-26 21:00:50.000000000 +0200 +++ /home/guerry/elisp/testing/bzg/org.el 2007-09-28 17:09:30.000000000 +0200 @@ -2199,7 +2199,7 @@ (defcustom org-agenda-skip-scheduled-if-done nil "Non-nil means don't show scheduled items in agenda when they are done. This is relevant for the daily/weekly agenda, not for the TODO list. And -it applied only to the actualy date of the scheduling. Warnings about +it applied only to the actually date of the scheduling. Warnings about an item with a past scheduling dates are always turned off when the item is DONE." :group 'org-agenda-skip @@ -2209,7 +2209,7 @@ "Non-nil means don't show deadines when the corresponding item is done. When nil, the deadline is still shown and should give you a happy feeling. This is relevant for the daily/weekly agenda. And it applied only to the -actualy date of the deadline. Warnings about approching and past-due +actually date of the deadline. Warnings about approching and past-due deadlines are always turned off when the item is DONE." :group 'org-agenda-skip :type 'boolean) @@ -13327,12 +13327,13 @@ ((eq what 'deadline) org-deadline-string) ((eq what 'closed) org-closed-string)) " ") - (org-insert-time-stamp - time - (or org-time-was-given - (and (eq what 'closed) org-log-done-with-time)) - (eq what 'closed) - nil nil (list org-end-time-was-given)) + (setq ts + (org-insert-time-stamp + time + (or org-time-was-given + (and (eq what 'closed) org-log-done-with-time)) + (eq what 'closed) + nil nil (list org-end-time-was-given))) (end-of-line 1)) (goto-char (point-min)) (widen) @@ -17133,7 +17134,7 @@ "Dispatch agenda commands to collect entries to the agenda buffer. Prompts for a character to select a command. Any prefix arg will be passed on to the selected command. The default selections are: -g + a Call `org-agenda-list' to display the agenda for current day or week. t Call `org-todo-list' to display the global todo list. T Call `org-todo-list' to display the global todo list, select only Diff finished. Fri Sep 28 17:09:42 2007 [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 411 bytes --] > 2) What is the reason behind having to manually "refresh" after a > reschedule in the agenda buffer, why does it not do it automatically? I think the reason is to warn you about the modification without having to save it. Actually reschedule often happens more than once before you need to save the modified buffers, so it makes sense to only save when you're done with all the modification... -- Bastien [-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 204 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: resheduling from agenda buffer 2007-09-28 15:19 ` Bastien @ 2007-09-28 15:30 ` Richard G Riley 2007-09-28 15:50 ` Egli Christian (KIRO 41) ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Richard G Riley @ 2007-09-28 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: > Richard G Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes: > >> 1) When following the instruction from the following link and >> rescheduling from the agenda buffer, why do I always get >> >> "Item scheduled for nil" in the message bufffer? > > I think this is a bug. > > Try this patch (also fixing small typos.) > > > >> 2) What is the reason behind having to manually "refresh" after a >> reschedule in the agenda buffer, why does it not do it automatically? > > I think the reason is to warn you about the modification without having > to save it. Actually reschedule often happens more than once before you > need to save the modified buffers, so it makes sense to only save when > you're done with all the modification... It doesn't really make sense because as you reschedule its easy to forget which ones you already have rescheduled and end up trying to reschedule an already rescheduled one. Which is exactly what happened to me. Like other operations on the agenda it's my (noob) opinion that it should refresh immediately or only confusion (as in this case) results. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* RE: resheduling from agenda buffer 2007-09-28 15:30 ` Richard G Riley @ 2007-09-28 15:50 ` Egli Christian (KIRO 41) 2007-09-28 16:09 ` Bastien 2007-09-28 16:10 ` Richard G Riley 2007-09-28 16:03 ` Bastien 2007-09-28 18:14 ` John Wiegley 2 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Egli Christian (KIRO 41) @ 2007-09-28 15:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard G Riley, Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Richard G Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes: > Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: > >> Richard G Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes: > >> 2) What is the reason behind having to manually "refresh" after a > >> reschedule in the agenda buffer, why does it not do it automatically? > > I think the reason is to warn you about the modification without having > > to save it. Actually reschedule often happens more than once before you > > need to save the modified buffers, so it makes sense to only save when > > you're done with all the modification... I think the reason is the principle of least surprise. If you change the priority of an item or reschedule it (e.g. to next week) it suddenly disapears on you if refresh happens automatically. I usually do a S-right a couple of times to reschedule items. Imagine what I would have to do if refresh happened automatically. I would reschedule to the next day then move the cursor to the next day, reschedule again, etc. I much prefer the current behaviour. > It doesn't really make sense because as you reschedule its easy to > forget which ones you already have rescheduled and end up trying to > reschedule an already rescheduled one. Which is exactly what happened to > me. Like other operations on the agenda it's my (noob) opinion that it > should refresh immediately or only confusion (as in this case) results. I can see your case, but think of the consequences of an immediate refresh. What happens if you reshedule a task to next week? Where should point go? To the next task? Should the point stay on the task, i.e. move to the next week? You open a can of worms. That's why a simple solution is the best. It doesn't surprise the user. HTH Christian ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: resheduling from agenda buffer 2007-09-28 15:50 ` Egli Christian (KIRO 41) @ 2007-09-28 16:09 ` Bastien 2007-09-28 16:17 ` Richard G Riley 2007-09-28 16:10 ` Richard G Riley 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2007-09-28 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode "Egli Christian (KIRO 41)" <christian.egli@credit-suisse.com> writes: > I think the reason is the principle of least surprise. Agreed. That's also why rescheduling should perhaps leave some persistent warning in the agenda buffer (as S-left/right does). I guess it would solve the issue Richard was concerned about. -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: resheduling from agenda buffer 2007-09-28 16:09 ` Bastien @ 2007-09-28 16:17 ` Richard G Riley 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Richard G Riley @ 2007-09-28 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: > "Egli Christian (KIRO 41)" <christian.egli@credit-suisse.com> writes: > >> I think the reason is the principle of least surprise. > > Agreed. That's also why rescheduling should perhaps leave some > persistent warning in the agenda buffer (as S-left/right does). > I guess it would solve the issue Richard was concerned about. Most 100% certainly. See the other reply. The S-<left,right> functionality is spot on. As a noob I believe I am more likely to spot these inconsistencies that established users. The other reply might have been private so I include it below: ,---- | While I can understand that, it certainly surprises the user to try and | reschedule a task that isn't really there. I would suggest that the only | sensible and usable and consistent thing to do is to mark it as changed | like with the S-<left,right> .. in this case it hilites the entry as | changed but you can continue to work on it. And then refresh (r) | obviously moves all tasks to their correct positions while leaving the | cursor at the current/next line. | | The functionality for S-<lft,right> is perfect. `---- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: resheduling from agenda buffer 2007-09-28 15:50 ` Egli Christian (KIRO 41) 2007-09-28 16:09 ` Bastien @ 2007-09-28 16:10 ` Richard G Riley 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Richard G Riley @ 2007-09-28 16:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Egli Christian (KIRO 41); +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Richard G Riley "Egli Christian (KIRO 41)" <christian.egli@credit-suisse.com> writes: > Richard G Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes: > >> Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: >> >> Richard G Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes: >> >> 2) What is the reason behind having to manually "refresh" after a >> >> reschedule in the agenda buffer, why does it not do it > automatically? > >> > I think the reason is to warn you about the modification without > having >> > to save it. Actually reschedule often happens more than once before > you >> > need to save the modified buffers, so it makes sense to only save > when >> > you're done with all the modification... > > I think the reason is the principle of least surprise. If you change the > priority of an item or reschedule it (e.g. to next week) it suddenly > disapears on you if refresh happens automatically. I usually do a > S-right a couple of times to reschedule items. Imagine what I would have > to do if refresh happened automatically. I would reschedule to the next > day then move the cursor to the next day, reschedule again, etc. I much > prefer the current behaviour. > >> It doesn't really make sense because as you reschedule its easy to >> forget which ones you already have rescheduled and end up trying to >> reschedule an already rescheduled one. Which is exactly what happened > to >> me. Like other operations on the agenda it's my (noob) opinion that it >> should refresh immediately or only confusion (as in this case) > results. > > I can see your case, but think of the consequences of an immediate > refresh. What happens if you reshedule a task to next week? Where should > point go? To the next task? Should the point stay on the task, i.e. move > to the next week? You open a can of worms. That's why a simple solution > is the best. It doesn't surprise the user. While I can understand that, it certainly surprises the user to try and reschedule a task that isn't really there. I would suggest that the only sensible and usable and consistent thing to do is to mark it as changed like with the S-<left,right> .. in this case it hilites the entry as changed but you can continue to work on it. And then refresh (r) obviously moves all tasks to their correct positions while leaving the cursor at the current/next line. The functionality for S-<lft,right> is perfect. > > HTH > Christian ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: resheduling from agenda buffer 2007-09-28 15:30 ` Richard G Riley 2007-09-28 15:50 ` Egli Christian (KIRO 41) @ 2007-09-28 16:03 ` Bastien 2007-09-28 18:14 ` John Wiegley 2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2007-09-28 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Richard G Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes: >> I think the reason is to warn you about the modification without having >> to save it. Actually reschedule often happens more than once before you >> need to save the modified buffers, so it makes sense to only save when >> you're done with all the modification... > > It doesn't really make sense because as you reschedule its easy to > forget which ones you already have rescheduled and end up trying to > reschedule an already rescheduled one. Which is exactly what happened > to me. Like other operations on the agenda it's my (noob) opinion that > it should refresh immediately or only confusion (as in this case) > results. Two issues here: (1) whether org-mode should give you visible hints for any change you make in the agenda buffer and (2) whether this change are to be automatically saved. For the first issue, this can be improved by displaying a timestamp when a new SCHEDULED: or DEADLINE: is added (just like the visible timestamp we have when pressing S-left/right on a headline: => <2007-09-28 ven>) For the second issue, I still think saving the modification should not be automated. It useful to see all the changes you made before saving them, and maybe you would agree with this once the first issue is fixed? -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: resheduling from agenda buffer 2007-09-28 15:30 ` Richard G Riley 2007-09-28 15:50 ` Egli Christian (KIRO 41) 2007-09-28 16:03 ` Bastien @ 2007-09-28 18:14 ` John Wiegley 2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: John Wiegley @ 2007-09-28 18:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Richard G Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes: > It doesn't really make sense because as you reschedule its easy to forget > which ones you already have rescheduled and end up trying to reschedule an > already rescheduled one. Which is exactly what happened to me. Like other > operations on the agenda it's my (noob) opinion that it should refresh > immediately or only confusion (as in this case) results. One reason that I don't want it to save right away: because often when I reschedule, I miss by a day or so, and then I can just tap some keys to get it right where I want it. John ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-09-29 12:45 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2007-09-28 1:15 resheduling from agenda buffer Richard G Riley 2007-09-28 14:07 ` Carsten Dominik 2007-09-29 12:45 ` Carsten Dominik 2007-09-28 15:19 ` Bastien 2007-09-28 15:30 ` Richard G Riley 2007-09-28 15:50 ` Egli Christian (KIRO 41) 2007-09-28 16:09 ` Bastien 2007-09-28 16:17 ` Richard G Riley 2007-09-28 16:10 ` Richard G Riley 2007-09-28 16:03 ` Bastien 2007-09-28 18:14 ` John Wiegley
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