* Org-export-generic and wikis... @ 2010-04-28 19:38 Robert Goldman 2010-04-29 13:57 ` OrgmodeOrg-export-generic " Wes Hardaker 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Robert Goldman @ 2010-04-28 19:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Org Mode I'm trying to get o-e-g to handle export to multiple wikis. One of the ones that I'm having the most trouble with is tikiwiki (www.tikiwiki.org). The problem here is that tikiwiki won't reflow normal text blocks. This means that we need to (1) take contiguous blocks of text and ram them all together (making sure we replace newlines with spaces) and (2) we need to detect paragraph breaks in body text (blank lines, I believe) and force them into the exported code as newlines. I have a partial solution to the first, but it doesn't handle the second problem well -- it's concatenating all the body text between two headings together and not honoring paragraph breaks. The reason it does this is that the way o-e-g works is to process each line individually, and there's no special check for blank lines. For that matter, it doesn't /seem/ to take into account the possibility that its output will go somewhere that treats newlines as paragraph boundaries. The only thing I can think about for the latter (and what I have tentatively implemented) is to add a new export flag that indicates that an export format expects to treat newlines as paragraph breaks. With this set to t, I have org-export-generic emit a newline when it sees a blank line. The expectation is that the value of body-line format does /not/ emit a newline at the end. Does this sound OK? I will send a patch as soon as I can remember how to make git send one in email... Two follow-on questions about org-export-generic: 1. Would it be reasonable to move the documentation for org-export-generic into the contrib/ directory of org-mode? It seems ... suboptimal to have this package be maintained in the org git repo, but its documentation in the worg git repo. At least from my PoV this raises the bar for keeping the documentation up-to-date and synchronized to a pretty high level. 2. Is the existing "handle each line separately" algorithm going to permit us to handle faces correctly? Seems like we'll need a lot of hair to handle, e.g., a phrase in italics that straddles a line-break, won't we? Best, r ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: OrgmodeOrg-export-generic and wikis... 2010-04-28 19:38 Org-export-generic and wikis Robert Goldman @ 2010-04-29 13:57 ` Wes Hardaker 2010-04-29 14:14 ` Carsten Dominik 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Wes Hardaker @ 2010-04-29 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rpgoldman; +Cc: Org Mode >>>>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:38:47 -0500, Robert Goldman <rpgoldman@sift.info> said: RG> 1. Would it be reasonable to move the documentation for RG> org-export-generic into the contrib/ directory of org-mode? It RG> seems ... suboptimal to have this package be maintained in the org RG> git repo, but its documentation in the worg git repo. At least from RG> my PoV this raises the bar for keeping the documentation up-to-date RG> and synchronized to a pretty high level. I'll let Carsten answer questions like that ;-) RG> 2. Is the existing "handle each line separately" algorithm going to RG> permit us to handle faces correctly? Seems like we'll need a lot of RG> hair to handle, e.g., a phrase in italics that straddles a line-break, RG> won't we? Well, that's a good question and one I don't have a great answer for. We could switch the parser to be multi-line based regexp matches but I suspect the complexity of when to stop those regexps will get rather harry too! -- Wes Hardaker My Pictures: http://capturedonearth.com/ My Thoughts: http://pontifications.hardakers.net/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: OrgmodeOrg-export-generic and wikis... 2010-04-29 13:57 ` OrgmodeOrg-export-generic " Wes Hardaker @ 2010-04-29 14:14 ` Carsten Dominik 2010-04-29 15:18 ` Robert Goldman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-04-29 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Wes Hardaker; +Cc: Org Mode, rpgoldman On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Wes Hardaker wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:38:47 -0500, Robert Goldman <rpgoldman@sift.info >>>>>> > said: > > RG> 1. Would it be reasonable to move the documentation for > RG> org-export-generic into the contrib/ directory of org-mode? It > RG> seems ... suboptimal to have this package be maintained in the org > RG> git repo, but its documentation in the worg git repo. At least > from > RG> my PoV this raises the bar for keeping the documentation up-to- > date > RG> and synchronized to a pretty high level. > > I'll let Carsten answer questions like that ;-) The reason for this is the following. Many of the contributed packages where written by people who were active in Org-mode for a while and then less so. Many of these package had no documentation at all. So I started a page on WOrg where this documentation can be added and edited by other users, with quite some success - now most package do have documentation. Keeping documentation for a contributed package the the org-repo would be OK, but there would be no mechanism to automatically put the latest version up on on the web. Changing this would require a volunteer who commits to keep the documentation of contributed packages in a consistent and web-publishable way in the contrib directory. - Carsten > > RG> 2. Is the existing "handle each line separately" algorithm going > to > RG> permit us to handle faces correctly? Seems like we'll need a > lot of > RG> hair to handle, e.g., a phrase in italics that straddles a line- > break, > RG> won't we? > > Well, that's a good question and one I don't have a great answer for. > We could switch the parser to be multi-line based regexp matches but I > suspect the complexity of when to stop those regexps will get rather > harry too! > -- > Wes Hardaker > My Pictures: http://capturedonearth.com/ > My Thoughts: http://pontifications.hardakers.net/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode - Carsten ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: OrgmodeOrg-export-generic and wikis... 2010-04-29 14:14 ` Carsten Dominik @ 2010-04-29 15:18 ` Robert Goldman 2010-05-14 7:16 ` Carsten Dominik 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Robert Goldman @ 2010-04-29 15:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: Org Mode On 4/29/10 Apr 29 -9:14 AM, Carsten Dominik wrote: > > On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Wes Hardaker wrote: > >>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:38:47 -0500, Robert Goldman >>>>>>> <rpgoldman@sift.info> said: >> >> RG> 1. Would it be reasonable to move the documentation for >> RG> org-export-generic into the contrib/ directory of org-mode? It >> RG> seems ... suboptimal to have this package be maintained in the org >> RG> git repo, but its documentation in the worg git repo. At least from >> RG> my PoV this raises the bar for keeping the documentation up-to-date >> RG> and synchronized to a pretty high level. >> >> I'll let Carsten answer questions like that ;-) > > The reason for this is the following. > > Many of the contributed packages where written by people who were active > in Org-mode for a while and then less so. Many of these package had no > documentation at all. So I started a page on WOrg where this > documentation can be added and edited by other users, with quite > some success - now most package do have documentation. > > Keeping documentation for a contributed package the the org-repo would > be OK, but there would be no mechanism to automatically put the latest > version up on on the web. > > Changing this would require a volunteer who commits to keep the > documentation > of contributed packages in a consistent and web-publishable way in the > contrib directory. Here's the particular problem for org-export-generic --- maybe there's a solution: org-export-generic is primarily data-driven. To specify an export technique, you populate a very big data structure using a macro with what look like common-lisp keywords. Here's an example: (org-set-generic-type "tikiwiki" '(:file-suffix ".txt" :key-binding ?U ;; lifted from wikipedia exporter :header-prefix "" :header-suffix "" :title-format "-= %s =-\n" :date-export nil :toc-export nil :body-header-section-numbers nil :body-section-prefix "\n" :body-section-header-prefix ("! " "!! " "!!! " "!!!! " "!!!!! " "!!!!!! " "!!!!!!! ") :body-section-header-suffix (" \n" " \n" " \n" " \n" " \n" " \n") :body-line-export-preformated t ;; yes/no/maybe??? :body-line-format "%s " :body-line-wrap nil :body-line-fixed-format " %s\n" :body-list-format "* %s\n" :body-number-list-format "# %s\n" ;; :body-list-prefix "LISTSTART" ;; :body-list-suffix "LISTEND" :blockquote-start "\n^\n" :blockquote-end "^\n\n" :body-newline-paragraph t )) The problem is that this is VERY difficult to document as the set of keywords expands (e.g., I add :body-newline-paragraph, :blockquote-start and :blockquote-end). These aren't arguments, so they can't get documented in the code in a docstring. org-set-generic-type is a function, not a mode, so there's no docstring for the mode to hold the documentation. This is already not working, AFAICT, the worg docs don't seem to be complete or accurate. I'm pretty convinced from general code and document-writing practice that the best solution would be one that puts the documentation as close to the code as possible. If this were common-lisp, I would add a new method to the DOCUMENTATION generic function, so that one could say (documentation :body-newline-paragraph :org-export-keyword) Then we could add a declaration macro, and put the docstring there: (def-generic-export-keyword :body-newline-paragraph :boolean "Should newlines ONLY be used as paragraph breaks. If the associated value is true, then org-export-generic will flow contiguous paragraphs into one long line, adding newlines only where there is a blank line. Should be coupled with a value for :body-line-format that does NOT contain a newline character, e.g., \"%s \"") I suppose we could add something like this, and possibly even write a script that would blat the docstring into something that Worg could display. Any thoughts? Best, r ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: OrgmodeOrg-export-generic and wikis... 2010-04-29 15:18 ` Robert Goldman @ 2010-05-14 7:16 ` Carsten Dominik 2010-05-21 13:02 ` Robert Goldman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-05-14 7:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rpgoldman; +Cc: Org Mode Hi Robert, Wes, I am not sure if there is any action should be taking here? I have no problems bundling some documentation with the distribution - let me just know what you want and send me what I should distribute. - Carsten On Apr 29, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Robert Goldman wrote: > On 4/29/10 Apr 29 -9:14 AM, Carsten Dominik wrote: >> >> On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Wes Hardaker wrote: >> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:38:47 -0500, Robert Goldman >>>>>>>> <rpgoldman@sift.info> said: >>> >>> RG> 1. Would it be reasonable to move the documentation for >>> RG> org-export-generic into the contrib/ directory of org-mode? It >>> RG> seems ... suboptimal to have this package be maintained in the >>> org >>> RG> git repo, but its documentation in the worg git repo. At >>> least from >>> RG> my PoV this raises the bar for keeping the documentation up-to- >>> date >>> RG> and synchronized to a pretty high level. >>> >>> I'll let Carsten answer questions like that ;-) >> >> The reason for this is the following. >> >> Many of the contributed packages where written by people who were >> active >> in Org-mode for a while and then less so. Many of these package >> had no >> documentation at all. So I started a page on WOrg where this >> documentation can be added and edited by other users, with quite >> some success - now most package do have documentation. >> >> Keeping documentation for a contributed package the the org-repo >> would >> be OK, but there would be no mechanism to automatically put the >> latest >> version up on on the web. >> >> Changing this would require a volunteer who commits to keep the >> documentation >> of contributed packages in a consistent and web-publishable way in >> the >> contrib directory. > > Here's the particular problem for org-export-generic --- maybe > there's a > solution: > > org-export-generic is primarily data-driven. To specify an export > technique, you populate a very big data structure using a macro with > what look like common-lisp keywords. Here's an example: > > > > (org-set-generic-type > "tikiwiki" > '(:file-suffix ".txt" > :key-binding ?U > > ;; lifted from wikipedia exporter > :header-prefix "" > :header-suffix "" > > :title-format "-= %s =-\n" > > :date-export nil > > :toc-export nil > > :body-header-section-numbers nil > :body-section-prefix "\n" > > :body-section-header-prefix ("! " "!! " "!!! " "!!!! " > "!!!!! " "!!!!!! " "!!!!!!! ") > :body-section-header-suffix (" \n" " \n" " \n" > " \n" " \n" " \n") > > > :body-line-export-preformated t ;; yes/no/maybe??? > :body-line-format "%s " > :body-line-wrap nil > > :body-line-fixed-format " %s\n" > > :body-list-format "* %s\n" > :body-number-list-format "# %s\n" > ;; :body-list-prefix "LISTSTART" > ;; :body-list-suffix "LISTEND" > :blockquote-start "\n^\n" > :blockquote-end "^\n\n" > :body-newline-paragraph t > )) > > The problem is that this is VERY difficult to document as the set of > keywords expands (e.g., I add :body-newline-paragraph, :blockquote- > start > and :blockquote-end). These aren't arguments, so they can't get > documented in the code in a docstring. org-set-generic-type is a > function, not a mode, so there's no docstring for the mode to hold the > documentation. > > This is already not working, AFAICT, the worg docs don't seem to be > complete or accurate. > > I'm pretty convinced from general code and document-writing practice > that the best solution would be one that puts the documentation as > close > to the code as possible. > > If this were common-lisp, I would add a new method to the > DOCUMENTATION > generic function, so that one could say > > (documentation :body-newline-paragraph :org-export-keyword) > > Then we could add a declaration macro, and put the docstring there: > > (def-generic-export-keyword :body-newline-paragraph > :boolean > "Should newlines ONLY be used as paragraph breaks. If > the associated value is true, then org-export-generic will > flow contiguous paragraphs into one long line, adding newlines > only where there is a blank line. Should be coupled with a > value for :body-line-format that does NOT contain a newline > character, e.g., \"%s \"") > > I suppose we could add something like this, and possibly even > write a script that would blat the docstring into something that > Worg could display. > > Any thoughts? > > Best, > > r > > - Carsten ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: OrgmodeOrg-export-generic and wikis... 2010-05-14 7:16 ` Carsten Dominik @ 2010-05-21 13:02 ` Robert Goldman 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Robert Goldman @ 2010-05-21 13:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: Org Mode On 5/14/10 May 14 -2:16 AM, Carsten Dominik wrote: > Hi Robert, Wes, > > I am not sure if there is any action should be taking here? > I have no problems bundling some documentation with the distribution - > let me just know what you want and send me what I should distribute. I have sent Wes a couple of proposed patches for inspection. We should probably wait until he's had a chance to look at them. They include the introduction of a declaration macro for the keywords that are used to configure a generic exporter. Also, I should probably get the fontification fully done before pushing. Question: do you ever have a shared branch? If it would be more convenient for you and Wes, I suppose I could be pushing my patches onto a branch on your repo, instead of emailing patches. Whatever works best for you two. Cheers, r > > - Carsten > > On Apr 29, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Robert Goldman wrote: > >> On 4/29/10 Apr 29 -9:14 AM, Carsten Dominik wrote: >>> >>> On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Wes Hardaker wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:38:47 -0500, Robert Goldman >>>>>>>>> <rpgoldman@sift.info> said: >>>> >>>> RG> 1. Would it be reasonable to move the documentation for >>>> RG> org-export-generic into the contrib/ directory of org-mode? It >>>> RG> seems ... suboptimal to have this package be maintained in the org >>>> RG> git repo, but its documentation in the worg git repo. At least >>>> from >>>> RG> my PoV this raises the bar for keeping the documentation up-to-date >>>> RG> and synchronized to a pretty high level. >>>> >>>> I'll let Carsten answer questions like that ;-) >>> >>> The reason for this is the following. >>> >>> Many of the contributed packages where written by people who were active >>> in Org-mode for a while and then less so. Many of these package had no >>> documentation at all. So I started a page on WOrg where this >>> documentation can be added and edited by other users, with quite >>> some success - now most package do have documentation. >>> >>> Keeping documentation for a contributed package the the org-repo would >>> be OK, but there would be no mechanism to automatically put the latest >>> version up on on the web. >>> >>> Changing this would require a volunteer who commits to keep the >>> documentation >>> of contributed packages in a consistent and web-publishable way in the >>> contrib directory. >> >> Here's the particular problem for org-export-generic --- maybe there's a >> solution: >> >> org-export-generic is primarily data-driven. To specify an export >> technique, you populate a very big data structure using a macro with >> what look like common-lisp keywords. Here's an example: >> >> >> >> (org-set-generic-type >> "tikiwiki" >> '(:file-suffix ".txt" >> :key-binding ?U >> >> ;; lifted from wikipedia exporter >> :header-prefix "" >> :header-suffix "" >> >> :title-format "-= %s =-\n" >> >> :date-export nil >> >> :toc-export nil >> >> :body-header-section-numbers nil >> :body-section-prefix "\n" >> >> :body-section-header-prefix ("! " "!! " "!!! " "!!!! " >> "!!!!! " "!!!!!! " "!!!!!!! ") >> :body-section-header-suffix (" \n" " \n" " \n" >> " \n" " \n" " \n") >> >> >> :body-line-export-preformated t ;; yes/no/maybe??? >> :body-line-format "%s " >> :body-line-wrap nil >> >> :body-line-fixed-format " %s\n" >> >> :body-list-format "* %s\n" >> :body-number-list-format "# %s\n" >> ;; :body-list-prefix "LISTSTART" >> ;; :body-list-suffix "LISTEND" >> :blockquote-start "\n^\n" >> :blockquote-end "^\n\n" >> :body-newline-paragraph t >> )) >> >> The problem is that this is VERY difficult to document as the set of >> keywords expands (e.g., I add :body-newline-paragraph, :blockquote-start >> and :blockquote-end). These aren't arguments, so they can't get >> documented in the code in a docstring. org-set-generic-type is a >> function, not a mode, so there's no docstring for the mode to hold the >> documentation. >> >> This is already not working, AFAICT, the worg docs don't seem to be >> complete or accurate. >> >> I'm pretty convinced from general code and document-writing practice >> that the best solution would be one that puts the documentation as close >> to the code as possible. >> >> If this were common-lisp, I would add a new method to the DOCUMENTATION >> generic function, so that one could say >> >> (documentation :body-newline-paragraph :org-export-keyword) >> >> Then we could add a declaration macro, and put the docstring there: >> >> (def-generic-export-keyword :body-newline-paragraph >> :boolean >> "Should newlines ONLY be used as paragraph breaks. If >> the associated value is true, then org-export-generic will >> flow contiguous paragraphs into one long line, adding newlines >> only where there is a blank line. Should be coupled with a >> value for :body-line-format that does NOT contain a newline >> character, e.g., \"%s \"") >> >> I suppose we could add something like this, and possibly even >> write a script that would blat the docstring into something that >> Worg could display. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Best, >> >> r >> >> > > - Carsten > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-05-21 13:02 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2010-04-28 19:38 Org-export-generic and wikis Robert Goldman 2010-04-29 13:57 ` OrgmodeOrg-export-generic " Wes Hardaker 2010-04-29 14:14 ` Carsten Dominik 2010-04-29 15:18 ` Robert Goldman 2010-05-14 7:16 ` Carsten Dominik 2010-05-21 13:02 ` Robert Goldman
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