* What license for Worg?
@ 2010-08-02 12:33 Bastien
2010-08-02 16:59 ` David Maus
` (4 more replies)
0 siblings, 5 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2010-08-02 12:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-org list
Hi all,
what is the most suitable license (or licensing scheme) for Worg?
Here is the best solution I can think of: dual-licensing[1] under the
GNU Free Documentation License 1.3[2] and the Creative Commons BY-SA
3.0[3] license. This solution would make it possible to take excerpts
from Worg and put them into Org manual for later inclusion in Emacs,
which uses GFDL 1.3 for the Emacs manual.
Would any Worg contributor have objection to this?
I'm open to any suggestion, please let ideas flow.
Thanks,
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-licensing
[2] http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html
[3] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
--
Bastien
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-02 12:33 What license for Worg? Bastien @ 2010-08-02 16:59 ` David Maus 2010-08-02 18:50 ` Bernt Hansen 2010-08-03 9:34 ` Ian Barton ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: David Maus @ 2010-08-02 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-org list [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 626 bytes --] Bastien wrote: >Hi all, >what is the most suitable license (or licensing scheme) for Worg? >Here is the best solution I can think of: dual-licensing[1] under the >GNU Free Documentation License 1.3[2] and the Creative Commons BY-SA >3.0[3] license. This solution would make it possible to take excerpts >from Worg and put them into Org manual for later inclusion in Emacs, >which uses GFDL 1.3 for the Emacs manual. >Would any Worg contributor have objection to this? No objection. Would have suggested the same. Best, -- David -- OpenPGP... 0x99ADB83B5A4478E6 Jabber.... dmjena@jabber.org Email..... dmaus@ictsoc.de [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 230 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-02 16:59 ` David Maus @ 2010-08-02 18:50 ` Bernt Hansen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Bernt Hansen @ 2010-08-02 18:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Maus; +Cc: emacs-org list, Bastien David Maus <dmaus@ictsoc.de> writes: > Bastien wrote: >>Hi all, > >>what is the most suitable license (or licensing scheme) for Worg? > >>Here is the best solution I can think of: dual-licensing[1] under the >>GNU Free Documentation License 1.3[2] and the Creative Commons BY-SA >>3.0[3] license. This solution would make it possible to take excerpts >>from Worg and put them into Org manual for later inclusion in Emacs, >>which uses GFDL 1.3 for the Emacs manual. > >>Would any Worg contributor have objection to this? > > No objection. Would have suggested the same. No objection here either. -Bernt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-02 12:33 What license for Worg? Bastien 2010-08-02 16:59 ` David Maus @ 2010-08-03 9:34 ` Ian Barton 2010-08-04 4:26 ` Bastien 2010-08-03 12:53 ` tycho garen ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Ian Barton @ 2010-08-03 9:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode > what is the most suitable license (or licensing scheme) for Worg? > > Here is the best solution I can think of: dual-licensing[1] under the > GNU Free Documentation License 1.3[2] and the Creative Commons BY-SA > 3.0[3] license. This solution would make it possible to take excerpts > from Worg and put them into Org manual for later inclusion in Emacs, > which uses GFDL 1.3 for the Emacs manual. > > Would any Worg contributor have objection to this? > That's fine with me. However, I think you may have to begin the long and tedious task of identifying all contributors to Worg and asking their permission. If this isn't done we may end up with "Free" and "Non free" versions of Worg. Ian. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-03 9:34 ` Ian Barton @ 2010-08-04 4:26 ` Bastien 2010-08-13 23:32 ` Eric S Fraga 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2010-08-04 4:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: lists; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hi Ian, Ian Barton <lists@manor-farm.org> writes: > However, I think you may have to begin the long and > tedious task of identifying all contributors to Worg and asking their > permission. Yes I will. > If this isn't done we may end up with "Free" and "Non free" > versions of Worg. I hope every contributor will be okay with the licensing scheme. That's the purpose of me asking the community for feedback :) -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-04 4:26 ` Bastien @ 2010-08-13 23:32 ` Eric S Fraga 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Eric S Fraga @ 2010-08-13 23:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 601 bytes --] On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 06:26:19 +0200, Bastien <bastien.guerry@wikimedia.fr> wrote: > > Hi Ian, > > Ian Barton <lists@manor-farm.org> writes: > > > However, I think you may have to begin the long and > > tedious task of identifying all contributors to Worg and asking their > > permission. > > Yes I will. > > > If this isn't done we may end up with "Free" and "Non free" > > versions of Worg. > > I hope every contributor will be okay with the licensing scheme. > That's the purpose of me asking the community for feedback :) I've contributed only a little but I'm okay with this in any case! [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 75 bytes --] -- Eric S Fraga GnuPG: 8F5C 279D 3907 E14A 5C29 570D C891 93D8 FFFC F67D [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-02 12:33 What license for Worg? Bastien 2010-08-02 16:59 ` David Maus 2010-08-03 9:34 ` Ian Barton @ 2010-08-03 12:53 ` tycho garen 2010-08-04 4:36 ` Bastien 2010-08-04 5:36 ` Bastien 2010-08-04 12:33 ` Sebastian Rose 4 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: tycho garen @ 2010-08-03 12:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode On Mon, Aug 02, 2010 at 02:33:10PM +0200, Bastien wrote: > Hi all, > > what is the most suitable license (or licensing scheme) for Worg? > > Here is the best solution I can think of: dual-licensing[1] under the > GNU Free Documentation License 1.3[2] and the Creative Commons BY-SA > 3.0[3] license. This solution would make it possible to take excerpts > from Worg and put them into Org manual for later inclusion in Emacs, > which uses GFDL 1.3 for the Emacs manual. > > Would any Worg contributor have objection to this? > > I'm open to any suggestion, please let ideas flow. This seems fine, the only possible concern that I have with this is that GFDL licensed code snippets aren't compatible with the GPL. I'm not sure how much actual code is in worg, and if this is an issue, but it's worth considering. My impulse for free-software-style writing projects is to use the emacs wiki license statement which says CC-BY-SA/GFDL/GPL 3 or later (with a clarification of what constitutes "corresponding source code"), but that might be a bit vague in some cases. Cheers! sam -- tycho(ish) @ garen@tychoish.com http://www.tychoish.com/ http://www.cyborginstitute.com/ "don't get it right, get it written" -- james thurber ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-03 12:53 ` tycho garen @ 2010-08-04 4:36 ` Bastien 2010-08-08 21:10 ` tycho garen 2010-08-09 19:36 ` David Maus 0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2010-08-04 4:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tycho garen; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hi Tycho, tycho garen <garen@tychoish.com> writes: > This seems fine, the only possible concern that I have with this is > that GFDL licensed code snippets aren't compatible with the GPL. I'm > not sure how much actual code is in worg, and if this is an issue, but > it's worth considering. Mhh.. yes, you're right. > My impulse for free-software-style writing projects is to use the > emacs wiki license statement which says CC-BY-SA/GFDL/GPL 3 or later > (with a clarification of what constitutes "corresponding source > code"), but that might be a bit vague in some cases. Here is what I read at the bottom of every emacswiki.org page: This work is licensed to you under version 2 of the GNU General Public License. Alternatively, you may choose to receive this work under any other license that grants the right to use, copy, modify, and/or distribute the work, as long as that license imposes the restriction that derivative works have to grant the same rights and impose the same restriction. For example, you may choose to receive this work under the GNU Free Documentation License, the CreativeCommons ShareAlike License, the XEmacs manual license, or similar licenses. So this is GPLv2. Any idea why this isn't GPLv3? Also, I find the formulation a bit confusing. Is it the standard formulation when multi-licensing? Where can I found an example of a clear multi-licensing statement? I've not made up my mind yet, but I would go for something like that: The content of the Worg website is licensed under the CC BY-SA 3.0 and the GPLv3 and the GFDL 1.3. You can choose to receive the content of Worg under any of these three licenses. Good? -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-04 4:36 ` Bastien @ 2010-08-08 21:10 ` tycho garen 2010-08-09 19:36 ` David Maus 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: tycho garen @ 2010-08-08 21:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode On Wed, Aug 04, 2010 at 06:36:45AM +0200, Bastien wrote: > Here is what I read at the bottom of every emacswiki.org page: > > This work is licensed to you under version 2 of the GNU General Public > License. [..] > So this is GPLv2. Any idea why this isn't GPLv3? No clue. I must confess that I'm writing this email without the benefit of a net connection, so I can't check if emacs itself has moved to GPLv3. If it hasn't I can imagine wanting to keep emacs wiki compatible with emacs itself. > Also, I find the formulation a bit confusing. Is it the standard > formulation when multi-licensing? Where can I found an example of a > clear multi-licensing statement? I'm not a lawyer or even particularly interested in the technicalities of such, but I do think that the emacs-wiki statement errs on the side of being human intelligible at the expense of concision. > I've not made up my mind yet, but I would go for something like that: > > The content of the Worg website is licensed under the CC BY-SA 3.0 and > the GPLv3 and the GFDL 1.3. You can choose to receive the content of > Worg under any of these three licenses. > > Good? I'd include "or later" statements, so that Worg can optionally take advantage of any updates to these licenses if they are revised to fix issues that arise (which is, again, the same as emacs itself.) More than anything, the "or later" statements, reduce potential future headache. Perhaps something like The content of the Worg website is licensed under the CC BY-SA 3.0 (or later) and the GNU GPLv3 (or later) and the GNU FDL 1.3 (or later). You can choose to receive the content of Worg under any of these three licenses. Again, just a thought. Cheers, sam -- tycho(ish) @ garen@tychoish.com http://www.tychoish.com/ http://www.cyborginstitute.com/ "don't get it right, get it written" -- james thurber ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-04 4:36 ` Bastien 2010-08-08 21:10 ` tycho garen @ 2010-08-09 19:36 ` David Maus 2010-08-10 1:35 ` Memnon Anon 2010-08-10 15:41 ` Bastien 1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: David Maus @ 2010-08-09 19:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1872 bytes --] Bastien wrote: >Hi Tycho, >tycho garen <garen@tychoish.com> writes: >> This seems fine, the only possible concern that I have with this is >> that GFDL licensed code snippets aren't compatible with the GPL. I'm >> not sure how much actual code is in worg, and if this is an issue, but >> it's worth considering. >Mhh.. yes, you're right. >> My impulse for free-software-style writing projects is to use the >> emacs wiki license statement which says CC-BY-SA/GFDL/GPL 3 or later >> (with a clarification of what constitutes "corresponding source >> code"), but that might be a bit vague in some cases. >Here is what I read at the bottom of every emacswiki.org page: > This work is licensed to you under version 2 of the GNU General Public > License. Alternatively, you may choose to receive this work under any > other license that grants the right to use, copy, modify, and/or > distribute the work, as long as that license imposes the restriction > that derivative works have to grant the same rights and impose the > same restriction. For example, you may choose to receive this work > under the GNU Free Documentation License, the CreativeCommons > ShareAlike License, the XEmacs manual license, or similar licenses. >So this is GPLv2. Any idea why this isn't GPLv3? >Also, I find the formulation a bit confusing. Is it the standard >formulation when multi-licensing? Where can I found an example of a >clear multi-licensing statement? IIRC there was some back and forth about compatibility of this statement and the GPL, but cannot remember where I read this. This is obvious, but why not just drop a message to FSF legal team with the question about this issue? After all, Org mode is part of Gnu Emacs and Worg is Org's community page. Best, -- David -- OpenPGP... 0x99ADB83B5A4478E6 Jabber.... dmjena@jabber.org Email..... dmaus@ictsoc.de [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 230 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-09 19:36 ` David Maus @ 2010-08-10 1:35 ` Memnon Anon 2010-08-10 15:41 ` Bastien 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Memnon Anon @ 2010-08-10 1:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Maus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Bastien Hi, > IIRC there was some back and forth about compatibility of this > statement and the GPL, but cannot remember where I read this. Thats exactly what I remembered, and I searched gmane for it. This topic (emacswiki and license) came up when bzr was adopted and the main document for transition was on emacswiki. If this is the thread you are referring to, its the one starting with this message: ,--- | From: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org> | Subject: Bad choice of license in BzrForEmacsDevs | Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel | Date: 2009-11-23 02:29:13 GMT (37 weeks, 23 hours and 4 minutes ago) | | http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BzrForEmacsDevs | allows GPL version 2, but not the current version. | This is not a good thing. Would the author(s) please | change it to allow future versions of the GNU GPL as well? | The documentation we recommend to Emacs developers has to | set a good example for licensing as well as have useful | information. | | Are there other pages on emacswiki.org which have this problem? `---- Memnon ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-09 19:36 ` David Maus 2010-08-10 1:35 ` Memnon Anon @ 2010-08-10 15:41 ` Bastien 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2010-08-10 15:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Maus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode David Maus <dmaus@ictsoc.de> writes: > IIRC there was some back and forth about compatibility of this > statement and the GPL, but cannot remember where I read this. This is > obvious, but why not just drop a message to FSF legal team with the > question about this issue? I'm in touch with RMS about this issue. Will follow-up on the list very soon. -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-02 12:33 What license for Worg? Bastien ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2010-08-03 12:53 ` tycho garen @ 2010-08-04 5:36 ` Bastien 2010-08-04 7:14 ` Ian Barton 2010-08-06 9:25 ` Andreas Röhler 2010-08-04 12:33 ` Sebastian Rose 4 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2010-08-04 5:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-org list Or we might also consider CC0: http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ It looks way more simple to me. It also circumvents the problem of people having to sign the FSF papers if the Org/Emacs manuals include part of the code they contributed to Worg as examples. What people think? -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-04 5:36 ` Bastien @ 2010-08-04 7:14 ` Ian Barton 2010-08-06 8:31 ` Bastien 2010-08-06 9:25 ` Andreas Röhler 1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Ian Barton @ 2010-08-04 7:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-org list On 04/08/10 06:36, Bastien wrote: > Or we might also consider CC0: > > http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ > > It looks way more simple to me. > > It also circumvents the problem of people having to sign the FSF papers > if the Org/Emacs manuals include part of the code they contributed to > Worg as examples. > > What people think? > Hi Bastien, The Software Freedom Law Centre has some good guidelines on licensing. Specificall you might want to look at: http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/foss-primer.html#x1-120002.4 and http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2007/gpl-non-gpl-collaboration.html Ian. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-04 7:14 ` Ian Barton @ 2010-08-06 8:31 ` Bastien 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2010-08-06 8:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: lists; +Cc: emacs-org list Ian Barton <lists@manor-farm.org> writes: > The Software Freedom Law Centre has some good guidelines on licensing. > Specificall you might want to look at: > http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/foss-primer.html#x1-120002.4 > and > http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2007/gpl-non-gpl-collaboration.html Thanks. I will check this carefully. My aim is to make a decision on the licensing scheme for Worg by the end of next week. -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-04 5:36 ` Bastien 2010-08-04 7:14 ` Ian Barton @ 2010-08-06 9:25 ` Andreas Röhler 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Andreas Röhler @ 2010-08-06 9:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode; +Cc: Richard Stallman, Bastien Am 04.08.2010 07:36, schrieb Bastien: > Or we might also consider CC0: > > http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ > > It looks way more simple to me. > > It also circumvents the problem of people having to sign the FSF papers > if the Org/Emacs manuals include part of the code they contributed to > Worg as examples. > > What people think? > Hi Bastien, that's an interesting proposal, I'm glad seeing you reflecting the matter. Please permet first clarifying a little bit: we can't speek of FSF papers as such, it's very different one. The FSF disclaimer is perfectly ok IMO and should be sufficient for any distributor. The other paper, obliging the author to indemnities towards the FSF even in cases of false accusations, stipulating US-courts and US-law as the only relevant, is a human rights violation. Bien sure, that hat not been the intention of RMS and the other developers. Nonetheless, in fact it's not different from the famous Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which first time in newer history stipulated US-law for all the others too. Copyright assignment is an essay not to defend, but to attack. It trys software as a weapon. This deplorable idea we see inside the GPL too BTW, marking a cultural gab between post-communist Europe and US. In consideration which was said above, your proposal probably will not be accepted by FSF, as a non-existing copyright can't be assigned any more. :-) CC to RMS. Andreas -- https://code.launchpad.net/~a-roehler/python-mode https://code.launchpad.net/s-x-emacs-werkstatt/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: What license for Worg? 2010-08-02 12:33 What license for Worg? Bastien ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2010-08-04 5:36 ` Bastien @ 2010-08-04 12:33 ` Sebastian Rose 4 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Sebastian Rose @ 2010-08-04 12:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-org list Hi Bastien, Bastien <bastien.guerry@wikimedia.fr> writes: > Hi all, > > what is the most suitable license (or licensing scheme) for Worg? > > Here is the best solution I can think of: dual-licensing[1] under the > GNU Free Documentation License 1.3[2] and the Creative Commons BY-SA > 3.0[3] license. This solution would make it possible to take excerpts > from Worg and put them into Org manual for later inclusion in Emacs, > which uses GFDL 1.3 for the Emacs manual. I'm OK with wathever licensing is neccessary to support Org mode and Emacs. Sebastian ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-08-13 23:32 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2010-08-02 12:33 What license for Worg? Bastien 2010-08-02 16:59 ` David Maus 2010-08-02 18:50 ` Bernt Hansen 2010-08-03 9:34 ` Ian Barton 2010-08-04 4:26 ` Bastien 2010-08-13 23:32 ` Eric S Fraga 2010-08-03 12:53 ` tycho garen 2010-08-04 4:36 ` Bastien 2010-08-08 21:10 ` tycho garen 2010-08-09 19:36 ` David Maus 2010-08-10 1:35 ` Memnon Anon 2010-08-10 15:41 ` Bastien 2010-08-04 5:36 ` Bastien 2010-08-04 7:14 ` Ian Barton 2010-08-06 8:31 ` Bastien 2010-08-06 9:25 ` Andreas Röhler 2010-08-04 12:33 ` Sebastian Rose
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).