#2 [[bbb:OrgMeetup]] on Wed, Sep 13, 19:00 UTC+3

#2 [[bbb:OrgMeetup]] on Wed, Sep 13, 19:00 UTC+3

[Ihor Radchenko]

Dear all,

The last meetup [1] turned out quite successful. Let's continue.

[1] https://list.orgmode.org/877cq38gdt.fsf@localhost/ (meetup notes)

URL: https://bbb.emacsverse.org/b/iho-h7r-qg8-led
Time & Date: <2023-09-13 Wed 19:00-21:00 @+03,Europe/Istanbul>
The room will be open half an hour before the official start.

During the meetup, we can:

- Give advice to new users
- Showcase Org configs or workflows
- Demo/discuss interesting packages
- Troubleshoot each-other's issues
- Discuss "Org mode" section of Emacs news (https://sachachua.com/blog/)
- Discuss anything else Org-related

Everyone is free to join the discussion/chat or lurk around silently,
listening.

We will _not_ do any recording by default.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: #2 [[bbb:OrgMeetup]] on Wed, Sep 13, 19:00 UTC+3

[Esteban Ordóñez]

 
> The last meetup [1] turned out quite successful. Let's continue.
> 
> [1] https://list.orgmode.org/877cq38gdt.fsf@localhost/ (meetup notes)

Thanks a lot for the notes, Ihor!  I hope that I do not miss the next
meetup.

Re: #2 [[bbb:OrgMeetup]] on Wed, Sep 13, 19:00 UTC+3

[Tshiung Han See]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 981 bytes --]

Hi Ihor,

I would’ve liked to join, but that’s 1am (Malaysian time).

Apologies if I missed out on the thread for setting my availability.

Han

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Dear all,
>
> The last meetup [1] turned out quite successful. Let’s continue.
>
> [1] <https://list.orgmode.org/877cq38gdt.fsf@localhost/> (meetup notes)
>
> URL: <https://bbb.emacsverse.org/b/iho-h7r-qg8-led>
> Time & Date: <2023-09-13 Wed 19:00-21:00>
> The room will be open half an hour before the official start.
>
> During the meetup, we can:
>
> - Give advice to new users
> - Showcase Org configs or workflows
> - Demo/discuss interesting packages
> - Troubleshoot each-other’s issues
> - Discuss “Org mode” section of Emacs news (<https://sachachua.com/blog/>)
> - Discuss anything else Org-related
>
> Everyone is free to join the discussion/chat or lurk around silently,
> listening.
>
> We will _not_ do any recording by default.

Re: #2 [[bbb:OrgMeetup]] on Wed, Sep 13, 19:00 UTC+3

[Ihor Radchenko]

Tshiung Han See <tshiunghan@posteo.my> writes:

> I would’ve liked to join, but that’s 1am (Malaysian time).
>
> Apologies if I missed out on the thread for setting my availability.

Currently, the time is decided simply by my own availability.
If someone can host the meetup and be regularly available for
Asia-Pacific time zone, we can have a second timing. For example, by
alternating the meetup times (one in EU time zone, one in Asia-Pacific).
But someone needs to volunteer.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: #2 [[bbb:OrgMeetup]] on Wed, Sep 13, 19:00 UTC+3

[Corwin Brust]

On Mon, Sep 11, 2023 at 3:39 AM Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> wrote:
>
> Tshiung Han See <tshiunghan@posteo.my> writes:
>
> > I would’ve liked to join, but that’s 1am (Malaysian time).
>
> Currently, the time is decided simply by my own availability.
> [snip]
> But someone needs to volunteer.
>

I can host US/Central evening hours, so any start-time from about 5pm
until about 10pm my time (10p-3a UTC), give we are talking exclusively
about "school nights" :)

bbb:OrgMeetup for Asia-Pacific time zones (was: #2 [[bbb:OrgMeetup]] on Wed, Sep 13, 19:00 UTC+3)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st> writes:

> On Mon, Sep 11, 2023 at 3:39 AM Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> wrote:
>>
>> Tshiung Han See <tshiunghan@posteo.my> writes:
>>
>> > I would’ve liked to join, but that’s 1am (Malaysian time).
>>
>> Currently, the time is decided simply by my own availability.
>> [snip]
>> But someone needs to volunteer.
>>
>
> I can host US/Central evening hours, so any start-time from about 5pm
> until about 10pm my time (10p-3a UTC), give we are talking exclusively
> about "school nights" :)

Thanks for the offer!
This might work, although maybe not on working days.
10pm UTC will be 8am Singapore time - not the best choice for a weekday.

Tshiung, what do you think about such timing?
Others who would prefer the proposed timing - please chime in, so that
we have some idea about who is willing to attend the alternative
schedule.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

[SUMMARY] #2 [[bbb:OrgMeetup]] on Wed, Sep 13, 19:00 UTC+3

[Ihor Radchenko]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> URL: https://bbb.emacsverse.org/b/iho-h7r-qg8-led
> Time & Date: <2023-09-13 Wed 19:00-21:00 @+03,Europe/Istanbul>
> The room will be open half an hour before the official start.

... and here is a summary of the discussed topics + comment log:


- weary-traveler asked to add a new feature to Org publishing system.

  The use case is publishing using CI tasks, where a new, fresh image
  is created every time a website is re-published. Such image does
  not preserve the original modification times of the source Org
  files, making Org publish re-generate everything every single time.

  The new suggested feature is (optionally) using last git commit time
  instead of file modification time.

  - Org already has somewhat similar functionality in a form of
    ={{{modification-time ...}}}= macro. See [[info:org#Macro Replacement][org#Macro Replacement]] section
    of Org manual.
  - Also, several other places in Org are relying on file modification
    time and might need to be considered.
  - Conclusion: the feature request is to be submitted to mailing list
    for more detailed discussion. (see
    https://orgmode.org/manual/Feedback.html#Feedback)


- Tomas Volf asked where to start learning Org. Answer:

  1. Go to https://orgmode.org
  2. Click on "Worg" (Org wiki): https://orgmode.org/worg/
  3. Check out https://orgmode.org/worg/#learn
  4. I specifically recommend a short Org mode guide:
     https://orgmode.org/guide/index.html to get an overview of what
     is possible and https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/index.html
     with various use cases.
  5. Karl Voit later pointed to his usual suggestion to learn one
     thing at a time:
     https://karl-voit.at/2020/01/20/start-using-orgmode/

     - In short, Org is so large that it is useless to try learning
       everything. Just look quickly what is possible and use whatever
       is practically useful - small step at a time.
     - If nothing in Org is useful, do not use Org (yes, it is
       perfectly fine not to use Org ;])


- As usual, a number of people use Org mode for a number of different
  things. This time, the participants mentioned

  - outlining documents and writing plain text notes
  - source blocks to run code from notes
  - note-taking (sometimes on paper first, later copying to Org)
  - blogging
  - publishing to HTML
  - export to LaTeX
  - storing bookmarks from internet
  - working on HS/CS projects
  - People often start with one thing, but then it becomes convenient
    to re-use Org for more and more and ... <takes over the universe 👽>


- oatmeal described Emacs hanging when opening one specific Org file.
  Without further info, we could only offer generic tip to submit a
  bug report: https://orgmode.org/manual/Feedback.html#Feedback
  

- William Denton asked about how yantar92 (me) uses Org mode to maintain Org mode :)
  - ... which opened the Pandora box of my rather complex GTD setup:
    https://github.com/tartan92/emacs-config/blob/master/config.org#org-mode
  
  Some highlights:
  - This setup is *definitely not for beginners*. Too many idiosyncratic things.
  - I use a single notes.org file for all the notes + a bunch of
    archive files for things I do not need to pop up in my searches
    (via org-ql).
    - Karl Voit has somewhat similar setup with giant Org files:
      https://karl-voit.at/2020/05/03/current-org-files/
      - He keeps pretty much all his digital life in Org mode:
        https://github.com/novoid/Memacs (*all* emails, browser history,
        SMS, RSS, bank statements, git commits, etc)
  - Org mode maintenance involves dealing with a growing pile of bug
    reports, feature requests, patches, ideas, etc. I currently have
    over 1k (yes, over one thousand) actionable ideas recorded.
  - It is literally impossible for a single human to handle all these
  - So, I instead approach this using priority system
    - I collect everything Org-related (emails, GitHub issues, Reddit
      posts, blogs) into Org headings via
      https://github.com/yantar92/org-capture-ref
    - I categorize Org-related tasks into: (1) bugs; (2) feature
      requests; (3) maintenance tasks; (4) misc tasks; (5) specific
      non-trivial projects (task groups), like implementing new syntax
      or fixing particularly difficult bugs.
    - At any time, I limit my Org-related work to bugs, feature
      request, maintenance tasks, and a couple of projects (according
      to my free time).
      - I do it by setting todo keyword "NEXT" on active groups and
        "SOMEDAY"/"HOLD" on inactive groups
	- only active groups of tasks contribute to my agenda
	- I re-consider active groups every week during weekly review
	- More about my todo keywords: https://github.com/yantar92/emacs-config/blob/master/config.org#tasks
    - Inside each group, I only mark a couple (of several hundreds) of
      tasks as active (NEXT)
      - I only review non-active tasks when I run out of "active"
        (NEXT) tasks (and the area/project is thus "stuck")
      - Non-active tasks are marked with various levels of urgency,
        for easier review (I do not want to review all 300-500 tasks
        every time)
	- A/B/C priority
	- flagged/non-flagged
	- flagged "#A" tasks are the first to be marked "NEXT" during the review
	- Use https://github.com/yantar92/org-autosort
      - The active tasks are scattered across my multiple layers of
        agenda views: focused agenda (have to do today); normal agenda
        (do after I finish focused agenda); NEXT task list (tasks to
        consider if I finish everything that is actually scheduled for
        today)
	- More details at
          https://github.com/yantar92/emacs-config/blob/master/config.org#agenda--scheduling
  - As an aside, because of so many headings, I display many standard
    tags and todo keywords as UTF symbols: 🖂📎🏁📚🔔☐⯑☑✘▶👁⌛⏩⏸... for more compressed view
    - See https://github.com/yantar92/emacs-config/blob/master/config.org#items
    - Emacs allows to create you own non-standard symbols by combining
      multiple "glyphs" on top of each other: ~'(?🕒 (cc . cc) ?🚫)~
      will draw 🕒 on top of 🚫, creating "prohibit clock" symbol. See
      help:reference-point-alist docstring more details about
      combining symbols in Emacs.


- On working with large Org file
  - The key point when working with large Org files is ability to
    search things and narrow things down to the project/area you
    currently work on
  - One way is ~org-narrow-to-subtree~ and ~org-tree-to-indirect-buffer~ -
    it will limit Emacs buffer to specific subtree.
  - Sparse trees allow revealing specific headings in folded Org
    buffer - by todo keyword, by tag, by property, by regexp etc. See
    https://orgmode.org/manual/Sparse-Trees.html
  - One can even display Org buffer in a table form via
    https://orgmode.org/manual/Using-column-view.html
  - Org agenda, despite its name, is not limited to listing scheduled
    tasks. It is *Editable search interface across multiple Org files*.
    One can search for specific headings (via tag, property,
    scheduled, todo keyword, regexp, etc searches), see them as a list
    in agenda view, and edit by changing their todo keywords,
    scheduled, deadline, priority, etc See
    https://orgmode.org/manual/Matching-tags-and-properties.html
    - There are bulk agenda commands (B) to act of marked (m) headings
      together. See "Bulk remote editing selected entries" in
      https://orgmode.org/manual/Agenda-Commands.html
    - C-k in agenda will delete the corresponding heading in Org file
      (with a prompt). M-x undo in agenda will undo _both_ in agenda and
      in the Org file (not just deletion, any changes, like todo
      keywords, scheduling, etc)
    - Karl Voit reminded that =<= in agenda will narrow items to
      category at point (usually, it means current project/file). =C-u
      <= will do the inverse (all but current category). Karl Voit uses
      this to switch between business/non-business tasks.
      - I personally use similar idea, but with =@home= and =@work= tags:
        https://github.com/yantar92/emacs-config/blob/master/config.org#location-contexts
    - Even in existing agenda it is possible to further narrow matches
      down using filters. See
      https://orgmode.org/manual/Filtering_002flimiting-agenda-items.html


- Tomas Volf asked about synchronizing Org files across multiple machines.
  - Org files are just text files and things like Synchthing work just
    fine (https://syncthing.net/)


- Karl Voit mentioned an alternative version of
  ~org-tree-to-indirect-buffer~:
  https://github.com/novoid/dot-emacs/blob/master/config.org#L7510
  - It allows multiple indirect buffers (built-in version needs
    customization for multiple indirect buffers; it kills previously
    existing indirect buffers by default)
  - It uses different naming scheme.


- Karl Voit mentioned a convenient way to copy html markup to Org
  markup: https://github.com/kuanyui/copy-as-org-mode
  - Similar project, but for the whole web page: https://github.com/alphapapa/org-web-tools
  - ... and for pasting images: https://github.com/abo-abo/org-download
  - visuwesh reminded about his planned work on yank-media integration
    to be able to paste files and images from clipboard into Org. As
    usual, patches are welcome:
    https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html
  

- Side track: why not using ChatGTP to implement new features?
  ... which does not work most of the time without manual editing :)


- weary-traveler mentioned his alternative HTML export backend
  https://github.com/ox-tufte/ox-tufte
  - The highlight is ability to have side (margin) notes in the
    exported HTML.
  - Based on "tufte" CSS


- weary-traveler showed a demo on using rst (reStructured text) tables inside Org files:
  https://weary-travelers.gitlab.io/posts/how-tos/overcome-org-syntactic-restrictions/guide.html
  - The idea is to create a source block backend, which executes
    exporting its code to whatever export backend is needed
  - This way, one can use complex rst tables with multi-row cells and
    complex cell layouts
  - The same idea can be used to embed alternative markups into Org
    (also, it is how Org's embedded LaTeX works under the hood)
  - Alternatively, Org mode supports =table.el= tables that allow
    multi-row cells.
    - Some Org auto-formatting convenience for table.el tables:
      https://github.com/casouri/ftable


- Karl Voit briefly described his system to deal with "hard to finish" tasks
  - He uses "reward" tag and allows himself do something enjoyable
    only after finishing the "reward" tasks, but not otherwise.
  - One can use https://www.nongnu.org/org-edna-el/#introduction to
    automatically schedule "reward" task upon finishing the associated
    difficult task
  - Also, see https://karl-voit.at/2020/08/14/project-mgt-draft/


- Org mode clocking can be used as website blocker
  - I block a number of websites that I tend to reach out mindlessly
    unless a specific task I am working on is either associated with
    such website or when that task is marked to not block anything.
  - Such approach helps to avoid mindless scrolling across social
    media:
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40672036-digital-minimalism
  - Setup:
    https://github.com/yantar92/emacs-config/blob/master/config.org#distraction-free-browsing
    - This is specific to qutebrwoser (https://qutebrowser.org/), but
      one may as well write directly to ~/etc/hosts~ to the same global effect.
  - visuwesh also asked about blocking certain Emacs buffers
    (apparently, ement.el can be as addictive and Reddit/YouTube)
    - One can utilize https://github.com/nex3/perspective-el and similar "workspace" packages for Emacs for this purpose
    - Also, leading space in buffer name, by Emacs convention, hides
      it from buffer list:
      ~(get-buffer-create " *another sample buffer*") ;; space as the first char in the buffer name "unlists" the buffer~
    - And there are, of course, various built-in Emacs hooks


- Hooks executed when clocking in/out: ~org-clock-in-hook~, ~org-clock-out-hook~ 😇


- Tomas Volf asked about giant Emacs setup: whether the author (me)
  remembers everything that is going on there:
  - The answer is _no, I don't remember_: things that are of use are
    simply in muscle memory and do not require further tweaking.
  - Sometimes, config things feel so natural (after years of usage),
    that they are thought as Emacs built-in (to later surprise trying
    with emacs -Q)
    - Like =highlight-parenthesis-mode=, which is a package I use for many years
      - Unlike built-in, it highlights multiple levels of parentheses
        around point, not a single level.


- Karl Voit uses major mode hydra as a personal version of cheat sheet
  for rarely used commands
  - Another approach is using =which-key= package that displays _all_ the
    prefix bindings after delay
  - Or M-x describe-bindings
  - Or something like =C-c C-v C-h= (any prefix ending with =C-h=), which
    will display a summary of bindings starting from that prefix key


- kickingvegas asked about agenda command to move to an event that is
  scheduled now (for example, it is 2pm and the event is 1pm-3pm)
  - Org agenda only has built-in command to jump to today (bound to ".")
  - jumping to current time might be a logical addition to Org - see
    https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html

:comments:
[18:41] Ihor Radchenko : The meeting will start at 7pm UTC+3. The room is open now, from 6:30pm.
[18:43] Ihor Radchenko : Meanwhile, feel free to check the latest news at https://sachachua.com/blog/category/emacs-news/ (search for "Org mode".
[18:45] Welcome to <b>[[bbb:OrgMeetup]]</b>!<br /><br />For help on using BigBlueButton see these (short) <a href="https://www.bigbluebutton.org/html5" target="_blank"><u>tutorial videos</u></a>.<br /><br />To join the audio bridge click the phone button.  Use a headset to avoid causing background noise for others.<br /><br />This server is running <a href="https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/" target="_blank"><u>BigBlueButton</u></a>.
[18:52] weary-traveler : i wasn't present for the last one; how do these meetups proceed? is there an agenda, or does the conversation proceed more extemporaneously?
[18:53] weary-traveler : sounds good, thanks!
[18:55] Tomas Volf : Hello, I'm here to lurk :)
[18:55] Ihor Radchenko : Happy lurking ;)
[18:56] Ihor Radchenko : You can even ask anything
[18:57] William Denton : Thanks for setting this up, Ihor. And for everything else you do on Org!
[18:59] weary-traveler : one thing i'll paste here (since the meeting hasn't yet officially started) is regd. org-publish-cache-mtime-of-src (https://github.com/emacs-straight/org-mode/blob/d96982f375138653922b1b0c1a3aa8d4b493e4b8/lisp/ox-publish.el#L1372). the existing version relies on the modification time as reported by the filesystem. this is usually what's desired in most situations. however, in some cases (e.g., when the export happens as part of a CI/CD process which is working on a fresh checkout) it may be desirable to use a different implementation (e.g. one which gets the modification time from the scm system). i presently use an advice to accomplish this, but unsure if others have encountered a similar need
[19:10] Ihor Radchenko : https://orgmode.org/manual/Feedback.html#Feedback
[19:10] Ihor Radchenko : To submit a feature request
[19:11] Tomas Volf : Org is quite complex suite of software.  Where to start?  What are the "common" pieces people use?
[19:12] mretka : /me is also lurking
[19:14] Tomas Volf : Cool, thanks :)
[19:15] William Denton : I started by using it for outlining, structured documents, just plain text stuff, then gradually began to use source blocks.
[19:15] Tomas Volf : For me it will be pretty much note taking at the moment.  Maybe a blog down the line.
[19:16] weary-traveler : for publishing (specifically exporting to html)
[19:16] William Denton : Not publishing, but note-taking, documents, record-keeping, and also things I would export in LaTeX.
[19:16] mretka : I'm using org to store notes as of late. I'm writing them on paper first them typing them after a while on org
[19:16] mretka : I use it to capture links as well when I'm browsing the internet
[19:17] William Denton : I guess exporting to LaTeX is publishing, but I don't use it for HTML and my web site.
[19:18] visuwesh : The first thing that I remember using org-mode is for writing my HS projects and exported it to PDF.  Specifically, my CS project was a literate document since the other options wasn't as handy as Emacs+org-mode
[19:18] weary-traveler : i started with note-taking. and when i had the need for a static-site generation tool for blogging i chose org, both due to its features and also because it was something i was already familiar with
[19:22] William Denton : Ihor, can you show how you manage your Org work?  It looks like you have quite an impressive workflow set up.
[19:23] oatmeal : Hi there.  Hope this is the right place for this sort of a question... Do you have any tips on how to check what could be the issue with an an org file which hangs Emacs once loaded?  C-g manages to break out for a second, enough to see org-persist errors... but can't even run org-lint or something else on this file... how would you proceed? I should probably submit a bug report, but didn't yet.
[19:24] William Denton : Those pause, play, ? and other icons, is that an overlay for statuses like WAITING?
[19:26] shortcut : it could also be keyword sequences with emojis as keywords, no?
[19:27] William Denton : Wow, that is an amazing setup.
[19:29] shortcut : is it a font which provides those icons?
[19:29] mretka : 👏👏👏
[19:29] Karl Voit : AFAIK the font needs to support UTF-8 and contain the characters. Usually, there are multiple candidates that provide that.
[19:30] weary-traveler : how does the translation from text keywords to symbols happen?
[19:30] Karl Voit : How does pretty-symbol affect the performance in large Org files?
[19:36] William Denton : This is amazing to see.  But if someone asked, "Should I start using Emacs?" and was shown this I bet they'd run away screaming in fear.
[19:37] Karl Voit : My personal suggestion: start with just a few things: https://karl-voit.at/2020/01/20/start-using-orgmode/
[19:38] mretka : I think your setup looks a lot like what Carsten Dominik showed in the org demo presentations, with one giant file with all the headings in it, then narrowing it to find what we want.
[19:38] Karl Voit : 24Million lines in one file?
[19:40] oatmeal : Sorry didn't hear the question. It's a tiny file which simply kills emacs when org-mode is active. My question is if you have any tips how to debug such a probelm?
[19:40] Karl Voit : I tend to have few but large files as well and heavily work with narrowing down on stuff I work: https://karl-voit.at/2020/05/03/current-org-files/
[19:41] Karl Voit : I'm sorry ;-)
[19:42] Karl Voit : Yes, my Emacs is quite ... a complete image of my (digital) life.
[19:42] oatmeal : I guess it makes sense to submit a bug...  was wondering if you're aware of debug/trace tools for org...
[19:42] mretka : On the topic of giant org files and narrowing, do you have any tips on how to narrow and limit the items displayed from the file at a given time?

I'm familiar with the sparse tree view and the agenda view. Are there other ways to narrow the information that you recommend? I see you're using org-ql as well.
[19:42] Ihor Radchenko : Memacs: https://github.com/novoid/Memacs
[19:43] oatmeal : ok thank you
[19:43] shortcut : whoa. memacs is awesome
[19:44] William Denton : Thanks for that link, Karl.
[19:44] Karl Voit : https://github.com/novoid/Memacs Readme lists two similar projects
[19:45] Tomas Volf : Do you synchronize the org files between multiple machines or do you just always work from this one?  I guess git would work well since it's just text?
[19:46] mretka : Nice, thank you for sharing about the agenda! I just had an insight about it now :)
[19:46] Karl Voit : Narrowing: https://github.com/novoid/dot-emacs/blob/master/config.org contains my-org-tree-to-indirect-buffer from alphapapa which (back then) had some advantages over native org narrow functions such as narrowing within a narrowed buffer. Don't know if this made its way to standard org-mode in the meanwhile.
[19:48] weary-traveler : would the public chat auto-clear at the end of the meeting, or it'll remain in the browser and can be saved/copied at the end at ones leisure?
[19:52] weary-traveler : the links would be sufficient, thank you!
[19:52] Karl Voit : For copying from firefox to clipboard and org, I love https://github.com/kuanyui/copy-as-org-mode
[19:53] Karl Voit : (I never got warm with browser capture or org-protocol)
[19:54] mretka : I recommend org-web-tools as well
[19:54] Ihor Radchenko : https://github.com/alphapapa/org-web-tools
[19:54] Ihor Radchenko : https://github.com/abo-abo/org-download
[19:55] visuwesh : Hmm, I wonder if writing a yank-media handler for text/html -> org would be nice/easier.  I don't know how to do the conversion though, pandoc?
[19:56] visuwesh : Yes, I do plan on submitting that image yank-media handler that we talked about #org-mode eventually TM
[19:57] visuwesh : yea
[19:57] visuwesh : I understand, I wrote it for myself too since I can finally copy-paste images easily
[19:57] Karl Voit : I;'ve heared good things from ChatGPT - couldn't that implement features for you?
[19:58] Karl Voit : :-)
[19:58] Karl Voit : So far, any code generated by ChatGPT was somehow wrong. Sometimes more, sometimes less subtle.
[19:59] mretka : I'm checking the agenda view now and saw that we can kill entries from the agenda view with C-k, it kills the entry in the org file as well :O
[19:59] Tomas Volf : That's really nice
[19:59] mretka : Thanks! TIL
[20:00] Karl Voit : Woha, I need to unbind that ....
[20:00] weary-traveler : (shameless plug) for those interested in blogging/static-site-generation-with-org, i use a derived exporter backend which i maintain called ox-tufte. ox-tufte provides "tufte" style sidenotes: https://github.com/ox-tufte/ox-tufte (the readme links to the blog built with it)
[20:02] William Denton : Nice!
[20:02] Karl Voit : I love pressing < for narrowing all agenda items to the current category. Or M-u < for narrowing for all items except the current category. This way, I only have one single agenda and use this for switching between business and non-business items.
[20:04] Karl Voit : Tufte demo page: beautifyl typography. Envious.
[20:04] Karl Voit : s/beautifyl/beautiful
[20:11] weary-traveler : btw, the blog uses sans-serif fonts so it's not a pure showcase of ox-tufte (which defaults to the serif fonts of tufte-css)
[20:13] Karl Voit : In most cases, those beautiful fonts are downloaded from Google which is a privacy no-go for me personally. :-(
[20:15] Karl Voit : Please do paste this URL here!
[20:15] Karl Voit : (rst table demo)
[20:15] Tomas Volf : Are Google Fonts legal in the EU?  I don't recall how that ended up...
[20:16] Karl Voit : ad Google fonts and GDPR: I personally don't care because I block anything from Google in any case.
[20:17] weary-traveler : https://weary-travelers.gitlab.io/posts/how-tos/overcome-org-syntactic-restrictions/guide.html
[20:17] weary-traveler : ^ Karl
[20:18] Ihor Radchenko : https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/878rkyarvm.fsf@localhost/
[20:18] Ihor Radchenko : Discussion about possibility of native multiline tables in Org
[20:20] visuwesh : I had to use table.el once and it wasn't that fun since there was no nice auto-filling like org-mode's table.  I think Yuan Fu's ftable package solves that, I haven't tried it myself tho https://github.com/casouri/ftable
[20:21] Karl Voit : Funny, I once had a tag named "reward" where I tagged tasks that I was allowed to do as some sort of reward like easy to do tasks after I accomplished a complex one.
[20:22] visuwesh : Ahhh, that's why I didn't use that package at all
[20:27] Tomas Volf : That is cool, but sadly duckduckgo often leads to reddit with answers :/
[20:27] visuwesh : Do you have a way to block opening some buffers?  Like ement.el room buffers
[20:27] Tomas Volf : I should probably ban hackernews though :D
[20:28] visuwesh : Yea, like try switching to buffer, and Emacs throws an error at you
[20:28] visuwesh : I was thinking of such a thing too but would like to steal the idea from someone else since that's the easier way out for me :P
[20:29] visuwesh : But my fear was using such a hook would slow down other geniune uses of creating/deleting buffer that happens in the background for something else
[20:30] weary-traveler : so how is the url blocking done? it seems you can customize code that runs when some items are clocked in/out and using that to do domain filtering?
[20:30] Karl Voit : Limiting buffers to a certain project is also done by: https://github.com/nex3/perspective-el
[20:30] Ihor Radchenko : https://github.com/nex3/perspective-el
[20:31] Ihor Radchenko : (can be abused to unlist some buffers)
[20:31] visuwesh : Ahh, so when you put that in this context, I can see a use for it.  I always thought it was strange since completion was enough for me to navigate around some 100+ buffers
[20:32] visuwesh : Oooh, that is nice.  I should have that too
[20:32] Ihor Radchenko : (get-buffer-create " *another sample buffer*") ;; space as the first char in the buffer name "unlists" the buffer
[20:33] visuwesh : Sometimes you need to look at these "private" buffers, and it never crossed my mind that I could simply add a switch-to-buffer command but for private buffers instead
[20:33] Tomas Volf : Interesting, ido seems to show the leading space as well.
[20:33] Tomas Volf : the buffer with leading space*
[20:33] Tomas Volf : If it is a only match, then yes
[20:36] visuwesh : You could write to /etc/hosts instead
[20:36] weary-traveler : what is the hook that gets invoked when clocking in/out?
[20:36] Tomas Volf : I think firefox caches the resolving though, I have troubles with that from time to time
[20:36] weary-traveler : hah
[20:38] Tomas Volf : For me this was great and quite eye opening, your setup is ... impressive.  And bit scary :)
[20:38] Tomas Volf : So thanks
[20:38] Karl Voit : Any decent setup is scary after some years of maintenance ;-)
[20:39] Karl Voit : “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Arthur C. Clarke
[20:39] Tomas Volf : Maybe one more question, do you actually remember what your setup fully does or do you have to check the source from time to time? :D
[20:40] visuwesh : I think show-parens-mode does what that package does
[20:40] Tomas Volf : I think it is built in :)
[20:40] visuwesh : show-paren-mode*
[20:40] Tomas Volf : At least in emacs -Q the parentheses are matchec
[20:40] Karl Voit : I started with hydra on F1 for each major mode in order to have a cheat-sheet for customized (and non-customized) functions in order to remember/re-find them
[20:41] visuwesh : Ahhh
[20:41] Tomas Volf : ooooh I see
[20:41] Tomas Volf : rainbow parens
[20:46] visuwesh : which-key?
[20:46] visuwesh : yea but it stalled.  IDR the reason
[20:47] Karl Voit : which-key serves a different workflow
[20:47] Karl Voit : you can't re-find things you forgot
[20:47] visuwesh : C-h
[20:47] Karl Voit : Furthermore, with hydra, I actually reduced the number of bindings.
[20:48] kickingvegas : hi folks! got here about an hour ago but lurking
[20:49] kickingvegas : pleasure to be here -
[20:49] kickingvegas : q: is there a built-in function to move the point to "now" in Org Agenda?
[20:53] Karl Voit : I need to leave now. yantar, it was a great pleasure learning new things from your setup! Thank you so much!
[20:55] Tomas Volf : Have a nice day and thanks again :)
[20:55] visuwesh : Thank you all
[20:55] weary-traveler : Ihor, thank you for hosting and organizing this!
:end:

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: bbb:OrgMeetup for Asia-Pacific time zones (was: #2 [[bbb:OrgMeetup]] on Wed, Sep 13, 19:00 UTC+3)

[Tshiung Han See]

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Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st> writes:
>
>> On Mon, Sep 11, 2023 at 3:39 AM Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tshiung Han See <tshiunghan@posteo.my> writes:
>>>
>>> > I would’ve liked to join, but that’s 1am (Malaysian time).
>>>
>>> Currently, the time is decided simply by my own availability.
>>> [snip]
>>> But someone needs to volunteer.
>>>
>>
>> I can host US/Central evening hours, so any start-time from about 5pm
>> until about 10pm my time (10p-3a UTC), give we are talking exclusively
>> about “school nights” :)
>
> Thanks for the offer!
> This might work, although maybe not on working days.
> 10pm UTC will be 8am Singapore time - not the best choice for a weekday.
>
> Tshiung, what do you think about such timing?
> Others who would prefer the proposed timing - please chime in, so that
> we have some idea about who is willing to attend the alternative
> schedule.

8am’s not going to work, sorry. But I really appreciate the offer, Corwin.

I would be happy to host something that is more amenable for people in my corner of the world. But I must warn you that I’m *really* new to org-mode.

That is, though I’ve been using it for a while, I use it to organize my lessons (I teach English) and other projects.

I hope that’s OK.

Re: bbb:OrgMeetup for Asia-Pacific time zones (was: #2 [[bbb:OrgMeetup]] on Wed, Sep 13, 19:00 UTC+3)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Tshiung Han See <tshiunghan@posteo.my> writes:

> 8am’s not going to work, sorry. But I really appreciate the offer, Corwin.
>
> I would be happy to host something that is more amenable for people in my corner of the world. But I must warn you that I’m *really* new to org-mode.
>
> That is, though I’ve been using it for a while, I use it to organize my lessons (I teach English) and other projects.
>
> I hope that’s OK.

I do not think that there is any requirement about being "veteran" in
Org mode. The job of host is mostly making sure that the conversation is
not stuck - asking people to introduce themselves (or their Org mode
usage), encouraging people to ask questions or sharing something
interesting, looking after questions in chat, etc.

Tshiung, what time and weekday would work best for your schedule?

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: bbb:OrgMeetup for Asia-Pacific time zones (was: #2 [[bbb:OrgMeetup]] on Wed, Sep 13, 19:00 UTC+3)

[Tshiung Han See]

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Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Tshiung Han See <tshiunghan@posteo.my> writes:
>
>> 8am’s not going to work, sorry. But I really appreciate the offer, Corwin.
>>
>> I would be happy to host something that is more amenable for people in my corner of the world. But I must warn you that I’m *really* new to org-mode.
>>
>> That is, though I’ve been using it for a while, I use it to organize my lessons (I teach English) and other projects.
>>
>> I hope that’s OK.
>
> I do not think that there is any requirement about being “veteran” in
> Org mode. The job of host is mostly making sure that the conversation is
> not stuck - asking people to introduce themselves (or their Org mode
> usage), encouraging people to ask questions or sharing something
> interesting, looking after questions in chat, etc.
>
> Tshiung, what time and weekday would work best for your schedule?

Mondays at 8pm (UTC/GMT+8) might be a good start.

Re: bbb:OrgMeetup for Asia-Pacific time zones (was: #2 [[bbb:OrgMeetup]] on Wed, Sep 13, 19:00 UTC+3)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Tshiung Han See <tshiunghan@posteo.my> writes:

>> Tshiung, what time and weekday would work best for your schedule?
>
> Mondays at 8pm (UTC/GMT+8) might be a good start.

In multiple time zones, this will look like

;; 0500 America/Vancouver
;; 0700 America/Chicago
;; 0800 America/Toronto
;; 1200 Etc/GMT
;; 1400 Europe/Berlin
;; 1730 Asia/Kolkata
;; 2000 Asia/Singapore

vs. the timing we use in UTC+3:

;; 0900 America/Vancouver
;; 1100 America/Chicago
;; 1200 America/Toronto
;; 1600 Etc/GMT
;; 1800 Europe/Berlin
;; 2130 Asia/Kolkata
;; +1d 0000 Asia/Singapore

At least, Singapore/Tokyo/Beijing/Sydney time zones appear have a better
timing for 8pm UTC+8.

If anyone reading this would be more interested to have an alternative
meetup track at 8-10pm Asia/Singapore time, please reply here, so that
we can see if there are people who will be willing to join.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>