Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi everyone,

I would like to change some key bindings related to archiving,
and this change will also affect the access key for attachments.

The main reason is that I think there should be a single default key
for archiving, and that the user sets a variable to decide what the  
default
archiving method should be.  I would like this key to be `C-c C-a' which
is why the org-attach key would have to move as well.

Here is my proposal:

In Org-mode files
-----------------

C-c C-a      archive default (setq by org-archive-default-command)
C-c C-x C-s  org-archive-subtree (C-c $ remains valid as well)
C-c C-x a    org-toggle-archive-tag
C-c C-x A    org-archive-to-archive-sibling

C-c C-x C-a  attach

In the agenda
-------------
a            archive with org-archive-default-command
C-c C-a      same as a
C-c C-x a    org-toggle-archive-tag
C-c C-x A    org-archive-to-archive-sibling
C-c C-x C-s  org-archive-subtree ($ remains valid as well)


I am wondering how much resistance such a change would create.

Comments?

- Carsten

Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs]

Hi!

Carsten Dominik schrieb:
> The main reason is that I think there should be a single default key
> for archiving, and that the user sets a variable to decide what the
> default
> archiving method should be.  I would like this key to be `C-c C-a' which
> is why the org-attach key would have to move as well.

That seems like a good idea.

> In Org-mode files
> 
> C-c C-a      archive default (setq by org-archive-default-command)
> C-c C-x C-s  org-archive-subtree (C-c $ remains valid as well)
> C-c C-x a    org-toggle-archive-tag
> C-c C-x A    org-archive-to-archive-sibling

No problems here for me. The keys I use most often are still at their
previous bindings.

> In the agenda
> a            archive with org-archive-default-command

If that hit me by surprise there would be some cussing involved, I
guess. What's the planned default for org-archive-default-command? If
I get a fair warning I'd set it to org-toggle-archive-tag.

> I am wondering how much resistance such a change would create.
---Zitatende---

Not too much, I guess.

-- 
        Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs <friedel@nomaden.org>
                             TauPan on Ircnet and Freenode ;)

Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Peter Frings]

On 30 Oct 2009, at 10:54, Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs wrote:

> Carsten Dominik schrieb:
>> The main reason is that I think there should be a single default key
>> for archiving, and that the user sets a variable to decide what the
>> default archiving method should be.  I would like this key to be `C- 
>> c C-a' which
>> is why the org-attach key would have to move as well.

[snip]

>> In the agenda
>> a            archive with org-archive-default-command
>
> If that hit me by surprise there would be some cussing involved, I
> guess. What's the planned default for org-archive-default-command? If
> I get a fair warning I'd set it to org-toggle-archive-tag.

I kind of agree that one-letter commands should be `safe': they should  
not do anything that cannot be easily undone; it's just too easy to  
hit them by accident. If it cannot be undone, I prefer the C-x ... key  
sequence, or have the `a' prompt for something.

Cheers,
Peter.

Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Matt Lundin]

Hi Carsten,

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I would like to change some key bindings related to archiving,
> and this change will also affect the access key for attachments.
>
> The main reason is that I think there should be a single default key
> for archiving, and that the user sets a variable to decide what the
> default
> archiving method should be.  I would like this key to be `C-c C-a' which
> is why the org-attach key would have to move as well.
>
> Here is my proposal:
>
> In Org-mode files
> -----------------
>
> C-c C-a      archive default (setq by org-archive-default-command)
> C-c C-x C-s  org-archive-subtree (C-c $ remains valid as well)
> C-c C-x a    org-toggle-archive-tag
> C-c C-x A    org-archive-to-archive-sibling
>
> C-c C-x C-a  attach

Since I've taken to using attachments quite a bit, I would most likely
restore the current keybindings in my own settings.

My chief concern with mapping archiving to C-c C-a is that it is too
close to the conventional keybinding for org-agenda (C-c a). With the
proposed keybindings, I fear it might be too easy to introduce drastic
changes in a file accidentally. (E.g., I sometimes hit C-c C-a when I
intend to hit C-c a and vice versa.)

>
> In the agenda
> -------------
> a            archive with org-archive-default-command
> C-c C-a      same as a
> C-c C-x a    org-toggle-archive-tag
> C-c C-x A    org-archive-to-archive-sibling
> C-c C-x C-s  org-archive-subtree ($ remains valid as well)

Again, I would prefer that C-c C-a remain bound to org-attach.

I currently unbind "a" (org-toggle-archive-tag) in the agenda. In the
past, items often mysteriously disappeared from my agenda view. I
discovered the cause: I was occasionally hitting "a" by accident.

I agree with Peter that commands with relatively destructive
consequences (such as archiving) should not be bound to a single key.
One wouldn't want to miss an appointment because one accidentally hits
"a" in the agenda. :)

Thanks for giving us the chance to provide feedback on these proposed
changes.

- Matt

>
>
> I am wondering how much resistance such a change would create.
>
> Comments?
>
> - Carsten

Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Bernt Hansen]

Peter Frings <peter.frings@agfa.com> writes:

> On 30 Oct 2009, at 10:54, Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs wrote:
>
>> Carsten Dominik schrieb:
>>> The main reason is that I think there should be a single default key
>>> for archiving, and that the user sets a variable to decide what the
>>> default archiving method should be.  I would like this key to be
>>> C- 
>>> c C-a' which
>>> is why the org-attach key would have to move as well.
>
> [snip]
>
>>> In the agenda
>>> a            archive with org-archive-default-command
>>
>> If that hit me by surprise there would be some cussing involved, I
>> guess. What's the planned default for org-archive-default-command? If
>> I get a fair warning I'd set it to org-toggle-archive-tag.
>
> I kind of agree that one-letter commands should be `safe': they should
> not do anything that cannot be easily undone; it's just too easy to
> hit them by accident. If it cannot be undone, I prefer the C-x ... key
> sequence, or have the `a' prompt for something.

That's my initial reaction too.  I archive using C-c C-x C-s but I bind
it to a macro.  I archive once a month in 'bunches' so I find a subtree
to archive, then do C-x ( C-c C-x C-e (once) then C-x e e e e ... to do
my archiving for a sequential set of subtrees.

I can see hitting 'a' by accident would archive stuff when I don't
intend to.  Maybe if there was a configurable question to verify you
want to archive then that would mitigate this potential problem.  We
would need the ability to toggle this safety question on and off.

-Bernt

Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 30, 2009, at 12:36 PM, Matt Lundin wrote:

> Hi Carsten,
>
> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I would like to change some key bindings related to archiving,
>> and this change will also affect the access key for attachments.
>>
>> The main reason is that I think there should be a single default key
>> for archiving, and that the user sets a variable to decide what the
>> default
>> archiving method should be.  I would like this key to be `C-c C-a'  
>> which
>> is why the org-attach key would have to move as well.
>>
>> Here is my proposal:
>>
>> In Org-mode files
>> -----------------
>>
>> C-c C-a      archive default (setq by org-archive-default-command)
>> C-c C-x C-s  org-archive-subtree (C-c $ remains valid as well)
>> C-c C-x a    org-toggle-archive-tag
>> C-c C-x A    org-archive-to-archive-sibling
>>
>> C-c C-x C-a  attach
>
> Since I've taken to using attachments quite a bit, I would most likely
> restore the current keybindings in my own settings.
>
> My chief concern with mapping archiving to C-c C-a is that it is too
> close to the conventional keybinding for org-agenda (C-c a). With the
> proposed keybindings, I fear it might be too easy to introduce drastic
> changes in a file accidentally. (E.g., I sometimes hit C-c C-a when I
> intend to hit C-c a and vice versa.)
>
>>
>> In the agenda
>> -------------
>> a            archive with org-archive-default-command
>> C-c C-a      same as a
>> C-c C-x a    org-toggle-archive-tag
>> C-c C-x A    org-archive-to-archive-sibling
>> C-c C-x C-s  org-archive-subtree ($ remains valid as well)
>
> Again, I would prefer that C-c C-a remain bound to org-attach.
>
> I currently unbind "a" (org-toggle-archive-tag) in the agenda. In the
> past, items often mysteriously disappeared from my agenda view. I
> discovered the cause: I was occasionally hitting "a" by accident.
>
> I agree with Peter that commands with relatively destructive
> consequences (such as archiving) should not be bound to a single key.
> One wouldn't want to miss an appointment because one accidentally hits
> "a" in the agenda. :)

These are convincing arguments from you all, so I will leave things as  
they
are, except that I will make "a" in the agenda prompt for [y]es and  
then do the archiving, using the default archiving command.  So  
archiving from the agenda will then be `a y'.

- Carsten

>
> Thanks for giving us the chance to provide feedback on these proposed
> changes.

Well, I just learned again how important this is.  Thanks for chiming in

>
> - Matt
>
>>
>>
>> I am wondering how much resistance such a change would create.
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> - Carsten

- Carsten

Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Detlef Steuer]

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:36:43 -0400
Matt Lundin <mdl@imapmail.org> wrote:

> My chief concern with mapping archiving to C-c C-a is that it is too
> close to the conventional keybinding for org-agenda (C-c a). With the
> proposed keybindings, I fear it might be too easy to introduce drastic
> changes in a file accidentally. (E.g., I sometimes hit C-c C-a when I
> intend to hit C-c a and vice versa.)

That was my fear, too. If you don't use the archive on a regular basis you'll be very surprised, when your entry vanishes ...

:-)

It is _very_ close to C-c a.

Detlef

Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Leo]

On 2009-10-30 06:54 +0000, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> I would like to change some key bindings related to archiving, and
> this change will also affect the access key for attachments.
>
> The main reason is that I think there should be a single default key
> for archiving, and that the user sets a variable to decide what the
> default archiving method should be. I would like this key to be `C-c
> C-a' which is why the org-attach key would have to move as well.

I think one of these days we could take a look at the whole of the key
bindings in org mode. It is violating some conventions. For example,
'Alt' usually means something slightly different in actions in both
Emacs and other applications on the system:

 `C-f'   -> forward-char
 `C-M-f' -> forward-sexp

On OS X,
  Cmd + H               -> Hide <APP>
  Cmd + Option(Alt) + H -> Hide others

But in org, it seems the Shift key is taking this role:

   M-RET
   M-S-RET
   ......

And usually Shift is not a modifier on terminals so another set of keys
are provided.

Another problem is the C-c C-x prefix. It makes the keys look long. And
I always fear I might type C-x C-c instead which exits Emacs.


Best wishes,

Leo


-- 
Emacs uptime: 38 days, 8 hours, 42 minutes, 15 seconds

Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Carsten Dominik]

OK, here is what I have now settled for, effective immediately:

The following keys now do archiving

C-c C-x C-a    archive using the command specified in
                `org-archive-default-command'

This variable is by default set to `org-archive-subtree', which means
arching to the archive file.

The three specific archiving commands are available through

C-c C-x C-s    archive to archive file
C-c C-x a      toggle the archive tag
C-c C-x A      move to archive sibling

These bindings work the same in an Org file, and in the agenda.

In addition:

- In the agenda you can also use `a' to call the default archiving
   command, but you need to confirm the command with `y' so that this
   cannot easily happen by accident.

- For backward compatibility, `C-c $' in an org-mode file, and `$' in
   the agenda buffer continue to archive to archive file.

Can we agree on this?

- Carsten

On Oct 30, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Carsten Dominik schrieb:
>> The main reason is that I think there should be a single default key
>> for archiving, and that the user sets a variable to decide what the
>> default
>> archiving method should be.  I would like this key to be `C-c C-a'  
>> which
>> is why the org-attach key would have to move as well.
>
> That seems like a good idea.
>
>> In Org-mode files
>>
>> C-c C-a      archive default (setq by org-archive-default-command)
>> C-c C-x C-s  org-archive-subtree (C-c $ remains valid as well)
>> C-c C-x a    org-toggle-archive-tag
>> C-c C-x A    org-archive-to-archive-sibling
>
> No problems here for me. The keys I use most often are still at their
> previous bindings.
>
>> In the agenda
>> a            archive with org-archive-default-command
>
> If that hit me by surprise there would be some cussing involved, I
> guess. What's the planned default for org-archive-default-command? If
> I get a fair warning I'd set it to org-toggle-archive-tag.
>
>> I am wondering how much resistance such a change would create.
> ---Zitatende---
>
> Not too much, I guess.
>
> -- 
>        Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs <friedel@nomaden.org>
>                             TauPan on Ircnet and Freenode ;)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

- Carsten

Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Bernt Hansen]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> OK, here is what I have now settled for, effective immediately:
>
> The following keys now do archiving
>
> C-c C-x C-a    archive using the command specified in
>                `org-archive-default-command'
>
> This variable is by default set to `org-archive-subtree', which means
> arching to the archive file.
>
> The three specific archiving commands are available through
>
> C-c C-x C-s    archive to archive file
> C-c C-x a      toggle the archive tag
> C-c C-x A      move to archive sibling
>
> These bindings work the same in an Org file, and in the agenda.
>
> In addition:
>
> - In the agenda you can also use `a' to call the default archiving
>   command, but you need to confirm the command with `y' so that this
>   cannot easily happen by accident.
>
> - For backward compatibility, `C-c $' in an org-mode file, and `$' in
>   the agenda buffer continue to archive to archive file.
>
> Can we agree on this?

Works for me :)

Thanks,
Bernt

Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Matt Lundin]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> OK, here is what I have now settled for, effective immediately:
>
> The following keys now do archiving
>
> C-c C-x C-a    archive using the command specified in
>                `org-archive-default-command'
>
> This variable is by default set to `org-archive-subtree', which means
> arching to the archive file.
>
> The three specific archiving commands are available through
>
> C-c C-x C-s    archive to archive file
> C-c C-x a      toggle the archive tag
> C-c C-x A      move to archive sibling
>
> These bindings work the same in an Org file, and in the agenda.
>
> In addition:
>
> - In the agenda you can also use `a' to call the default archiving
>   command, but you need to confirm the command with `y' so that this
>   cannot easily happen by accident.
>
> - For backward compatibility, `C-c $' in an org-mode file, and `$' in
>   the agenda buffer continue to archive to archive file.
>
> Can we agree on this?
>
> - Carsten

This looks good to me.

- Matt

Re: Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs]

Now that I've hit the update, I've noticed two things:

C-c C-x C-a unexpectedly moved a tree to an archive file. Seems I didn't really pay a lot attention to the discussion, so I simply set org-archive-default-command to my preferred value org-toggle-archive-tag.

Now in the agenda 'a' asked for confirmation, which is as discussed, but I'm not really happy with this, because I had to remap "a" in org-agenda-keymap (and then I learned that it's different from org-agenda-mode-map, which I didn't know) to org-agenda-archive-default.

If someone upgrades to the next release of org-mode, wouldn't it offer a smoother migration path to:

 - set org-archive-default-command to something that asks for confirmation and reminds the user that he can set it to another value, to get rid of the question
 - and then use this command for both C-c C-x C-a in files and 'a' in the agenda?

That way the user gets reminded before he breaks something, but only has to customise things once.

Just an idea.

(Sorry for the long lines, I'm writing this in vi, because emacs on homebox isn't running... long story.)

Carsten Dominik schrieb:
> These are convincing arguments from you all, so I will leave things
> as they
> are, except that I will make "a" in the agenda prompt for [y]es and
> then do the archiving, using the default archiving command.  So
> archiving from the agenda will then be `a y'.
-- 
        Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs <friedel@nomaden.org>
                             TauPan on Ircnet and Freenode ;)

Re: Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Carsten Dominik]

On Nov 6, 2009, at 2:40 PM, Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs wrote:

> Now that I've hit the update, I've noticed two things:
>
> C-c C-x C-a unexpectedly moved a tree to an archive file. Seems I  
> didn't really pay a lot attention to the discussion, so I simply set  
> org-archive-default-command to my preferred value org-toggle-archive- 
> tag.
>
> Now in the agenda 'a' asked for confirmation, which is as discussed,  
> but I'm not really happy with this, because I had to remap "a" in  
> org-agenda-keymap (and then I learned that it's different from org- 
> agenda-mode-map, which I didn't know) to org-agenda-archive-default.
>
> If someone upgrades to the next release of org-mode, wouldn't it  
> offer a smoother migration path to:
>
> - set org-archive-default-command to something that asks for  
> confirmation and reminds the user that he can set it to another  
> value, to get rid of the question
> - and then use this command for both C-c C-x C-a in files and 'a' in  
> the agenda?
>
> That way the user gets reminded before he breaks something, but only  
> has to customise things once.
>
> Just an idea.

That is an idea, but with the fast update schedule of Org, this would
quickly lead to a big mess in prompts and settings to be made, so I
do not think this is practical.

The issue with org-agenda-keymap and org-agenda-mode-map has to
do with the mouse - maybe this is not really necessary - I made this  
when I did not really understand keymaps very well, a looong time  
ago.  I'll take another look.

- Carsten

>
> (Sorry for the long lines, I'm writing this in vi, because emacs on  
> homebox isn't running... long story.)
>
> Carsten Dominik schrieb:
>> These are convincing arguments from you all, so I will leave things
>> as they
>> are, except that I will make "a" in the agenda prompt for [y]es and
>> then do the archiving, using the default archiving command.  So
>> archiving from the agenda will then be `a y'.
> -- 
>        Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs <friedel@nomaden.org>
>                             TauPan on Ircnet and Freenode ;)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

- Carsten

Re: Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Carsten Dominik]

On Nov 6, 2009, at 4:42 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:

>
> On Nov 6, 2009, at 2:40 PM, Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs wrote:
>
>> Now that I've hit the update, I've noticed two things:
>>
>> C-c C-x C-a unexpectedly moved a tree to an archive file. Seems I  
>> didn't really pay a lot attention to the discussion, so I simply  
>> set org-archive-default-command to my preferred value org-toggle- 
>> archive-tag.
>>
>> Now in the agenda 'a' asked for confirmation, which is as  
>> discussed, but I'm not really happy with this, because I had to  
>> remap "a" in org-agenda-keymap (and then I learned that it's  
>> different from org-agenda-mode-map, which I didn't know) to org- 
>> agenda-archive-default.
>>
>> If someone upgrades to the next release of org-mode, wouldn't it  
>> offer a smoother migration path to:
>>
>> - set org-archive-default-command to something that asks for  
>> confirmation and reminds the user that he can set it to another  
>> value, to get rid of the question
>> - and then use this command for both C-c C-x C-a in files and 'a'  
>> in the agenda?
>>
>> That way the user gets reminded before he breaks something, but  
>> only has to customise things once.
>>
>> Just an idea.
>
> That is an idea, but with the fast update schedule of Org, this would
> quickly lead to a big mess in prompts and settings to be made, so I
> do not think this is practical.
>
> The issue with org-agenda-keymap and org-agenda-mode-map has to
> do with the mouse - maybe this is not really necessary - I made this  
> when I did not really understand keymaps very well, a looong time  
> ago.  I'll take another look.

I think I can get rid of this variable, and I just did, so now there  
is only org-agenda-mode-map (org-agenda-keymap remains as an alias, so  
that bindings in this map will still work.)

I am pushing it out, we will see if it breaks something.  But I do not  
expect problems.

- Carsten

>
> - Carsten
>
>>
>> (Sorry for the long lines, I'm writing this in vi, because emacs on  
>> homebox isn't running... long story.)
>>
>> Carsten Dominik schrieb:
>>> These are convincing arguments from you all, so I will leave things
>>> as they
>>> are, except that I will make "a" in the agenda prompt for [y]es and
>>> then do the archiving, using the default archiving command.  So
>>> archiving from the agenda will then be `a y'.
>> -- 
>>       Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs <friedel@nomaden.org>
>>                            TauPan on Ircnet and Freenode ;)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
> - Carsten
>
>
>

- Carsten

Re: Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Daniel Martins]

Why not a single A e.g.

A    org-archive-to-archive-sibling

instead of
C-c C-x A    org-archive-to-archive-sibling


I use org-archive-to-archive-sibling
alot to diminish my organizer.org and a silge and simple key A (or
Shift-a) it would be good.

Daniel


2009/11/6 Carsten Dominik <dominik@uva.nl>:
>
> On Nov 6, 2009, at 4:42 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2009, at 2:40 PM, Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs wrote:
>>
>>> Now that I've hit the update, I've noticed two things:
>>>
>>> C-c C-x C-a unexpectedly moved a tree to an archive file. Seems I didn't
>>> really pay a lot attention to the discussion, so I simply set
>>> org-archive-default-command to my preferred value org-toggle-archive-tag.
>>>
>>> Now in the agenda 'a' asked for confirmation, which is as discussed, but
>>> I'm not really happy with this, because I had to remap "a" in
>>> org-agenda-keymap (and then I learned that it's different from
>>> org-agenda-mode-map, which I didn't know) to org-agenda-archive-default.
>>>
>>> If someone upgrades to the next release of org-mode, wouldn't it offer a
>>> smoother migration path to:
>>>
>>> - set org-archive-default-command to something that asks for confirmation
>>> and reminds the user that he can set it to another value, to get rid of the
>>> question
>>> - and then use this command for both C-c C-x C-a in files and 'a' in the
>>> agenda?
>>>
>>> That way the user gets reminded before he breaks something, but only has
>>> to customise things once.
>>>
>>> Just an idea.
>>
>> That is an idea, but with the fast update schedule of Org, this would
>> quickly lead to a big mess in prompts and settings to be made, so I
>> do not think this is practical.
>>
>> The issue with org-agenda-keymap and org-agenda-mode-map has to
>> do with the mouse - maybe this is not really necessary - I made this when
>> I did not really understand keymaps very well, a looong time ago.  I'll take
>> another look.
>
> I think I can get rid of this variable, and I just did, so now there is only
> org-agenda-mode-map (org-agenda-keymap remains as an alias, so that bindings
> in this map will still work.)
>
> I am pushing it out, we will see if it breaks something.  But I do not
> expect problems.
>
> - Carsten
>
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>>
>>> (Sorry for the long lines, I'm writing this in vi, because emacs on
>>> homebox isn't running... long story.)
>>>
>>> Carsten Dominik schrieb:
>>>>
>>>> These are convincing arguments from you all, so I will leave things
>>>> as they
>>>> are, except that I will make "a" in the agenda prompt for [y]es and
>>>> then do the archiving, using the default archiving command.  So
>>>> archiving from the agenda will then be `a y'.
>>>
>>> --
>>>      Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs <friedel@nomaden.org>
>>>                           TauPan on Ircnet and Freenode ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>
>>
>
> - Carsten
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

Re: Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Carsten Dominik]

On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:11 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:

> Why not a single A e.g.
>
> A    org-archive-to-archive-sibling
>
> instead of
> C-c C-x A    org-archive-to-archive-sibling
>
>
> I use org-archive-to-archive-sibling
> alot to diminish my organizer.org and a silge and simple key A (or
> Shift-a) it would be good.

If this is your default archiving method, the idea would be that
you set

    (setq org-archive-default-command 'org-archive-to-archive-sibling)

and then use `a y' to do the archiving.

I actually think that few people use archiving to sibling.  Am I wrong  
about this?
The reason why I don't have single letter commands for archiving in  
the agenda without confirmation is that archiving i potentially  
destructive.

- Carsten

>
> Daniel
>
>
> 2009/11/6 Carsten Dominik <dominik@uva.nl>:
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2009, at 4:42 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2009, at 2:40 PM, Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now that I've hit the update, I've noticed two things:
>>>>
>>>> C-c C-x C-a unexpectedly moved a tree to an archive file. Seems I  
>>>> didn't
>>>> really pay a lot attention to the discussion, so I simply set
>>>> org-archive-default-command to my preferred value org-toggle- 
>>>> archive-tag.
>>>>
>>>> Now in the agenda 'a' asked for confirmation, which is as  
>>>> discussed, but
>>>> I'm not really happy with this, because I had to remap "a" in
>>>> org-agenda-keymap (and then I learned that it's different from
>>>> org-agenda-mode-map, which I didn't know) to org-agenda-archive- 
>>>> default.
>>>>
>>>> If someone upgrades to the next release of org-mode, wouldn't it  
>>>> offer a
>>>> smoother migration path to:
>>>>
>>>> - set org-archive-default-command to something that asks for  
>>>> confirmation
>>>> and reminds the user that he can set it to another value, to get  
>>>> rid of the
>>>> question
>>>> - and then use this command for both C-c C-x C-a in files and 'a'  
>>>> in the
>>>> agenda?
>>>>
>>>> That way the user gets reminded before he breaks something, but  
>>>> only has
>>>> to customise things once.
>>>>
>>>> Just an idea.
>>>
>>> That is an idea, but with the fast update schedule of Org, this  
>>> would
>>> quickly lead to a big mess in prompts and settings to be made, so I
>>> do not think this is practical.
>>>
>>> The issue with org-agenda-keymap and org-agenda-mode-map has to
>>> do with the mouse - maybe this is not really necessary - I made  
>>> this when
>>> I did not really understand keymaps very well, a looong time ago.   
>>> I'll take
>>> another look.
>>
>> I think I can get rid of this variable, and I just did, so now  
>> there is only
>> org-agenda-mode-map (org-agenda-keymap remains as an alias, so that  
>> bindings
>> in this map will still work.)
>>
>> I am pushing it out, we will see if it breaks something.  But I do  
>> not
>> expect problems.
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>>
>>> - Carsten
>>>
>>>>
>>>> (Sorry for the long lines, I'm writing this in vi, because emacs on
>>>> homebox isn't running... long story.)
>>>>
>>>> Carsten Dominik schrieb:
>>>>>
>>>>> These are convincing arguments from you all, so I will leave  
>>>>> things
>>>>> as they
>>>>> are, except that I will make "a" in the agenda prompt for [y]es  
>>>>> and
>>>>> then do the archiving, using the default archiving command.  So
>>>>> archiving from the agenda will then be `a y'.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>      Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs <friedel@nomaden.org>
>>>>                           TauPan on Ircnet and Freenode ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>
>>> - Carsten
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>

- Carsten

Re: Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[David Bremner]

At Sat, 7 Nov 2009 07:33:30 +0100,
Carsten Dominik wrote:

> I actually think that few people use archiving to sibling.  Am I
> wrong about this?

For what it is worth, I have started to use archive to sibling quite a
lot in the last month or so.  I also like to tidy up my org files, but
I need to keep the structure for monthly and tri-monthly clock tables.

d

Re: Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Daniel Martins]

I use both

short topic in a still ongoing section I use simple archive


But when I finish a section or it is something I will not use for a
while I use archive to sibling.

Therefore setting

(setq org-archive-default-command 'org-archive-to-archive-sibling)

to use the "a" string

is not interesting.

However , I aggree that archiving should have a confirmation y-or-n

Daniel

2009/11/7 David Bremner <bremner@unb.ca>:
> At Sat, 7 Nov 2009 07:33:30 +0100,
> Carsten Dominik wrote:
>
>> I actually think that few people use archiving to sibling.  Am I
>> wrong about this?
>
> For what it is worth, I have started to use archive to sibling quite a
> lot in the last month or so.  I also like to tidy up my org files, but
> I need to keep the structure for monthly and tri-monthly clock tables.
>
> d
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Paul Mead]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@uva.nl> writes:

> I actually think that few people use archiving to sibling.  Am I wrong about
> this?

I use archiving to sibling for sub-headings in projects that are still
current, to tidy things up, then archive the whole project subtree to
the archive file when it's finished. I'd prefer to have archive to
sibling as the default option with the fewest keystrokes.

(FWIW!)
Paul

Re: Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs]

Hm...

Paul Mead schrieb:
> Carsten Dominik <dominik@uva.nl> writes:
> > I actually think that few people use archiving to sibling.  Am I wrong about
> > this?

I've never used archiving to sibling on purpose. After using it
accidentaly once, I was a bit annoyed at having to clean up the
structure of my project.

> I use archiving to sibling for sub-headings in projects that are still
> current, to tidy things up, then archive the whole project subtree to
> the archive file when it's finished. I'd prefer to have archive to
> sibling as the default option with the fewest keystrokes.
---Zitatende---

Hm, I use the archive tag for exactly that purpose. I prefer to see
the original structure in the tree, but with the dead branches (i.e.
already resolved subprojects).

But don't get me wrong, I don't want to proselytise or something.

It's a good thing, that org offers so many ways of organising our
"stuff". ;)

-- 
        Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs <friedel@nomaden.org>
                             TauPan on Ircnet and Freenode ;)

Re: Proposed key binding changes: archiving and attachments

[Carsten Dominik]

On Nov 8, 2009, at 7:24 PM, Paul Mead wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <dominik@uva.nl> writes:
>
>> I actually think that few people use archiving to sibling.  Am I  
>> wrong about
>> this?
>
> I use archiving to sibling for sub-headings in projects that are still
> current, to tidy things up, then archive the whole project subtree to
> the archive file when it's finished. I'd prefer to have archive to
> sibling as the default option with the fewest keystrokes.

Well, you can configure it now like this.


- Carsten