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From: Rainer M Krug <Rainer@krugs.de>
To: Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Some projects
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:19:23 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2h9lce9es.fsf@krugs.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87k2q8mqwj.fsf@gmx.us> (rasmus@gmx.us's message of "Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:34:20 +0100")

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Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Aaron Ecay <aaronecay@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi Richard, hi all,
>>
>> 2015ko urriak 26an, Richard Lawrence-ek idatzi zuen:
>>> 
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>> I was working on this rather intensively at one time, but I had to stop
>>>> because other aspects of life intruded.  I have just been coming back
>>>> towards a situation where I can imagine myself having some (still small,
>>>> but non-zero) chunks of time to devote to working on org.  So I hope I
>>>> will be able to pick this back up, but (regrettably) I’m not able to
>>>> make any promises.
>>>> 
>>>> Based on my recollection, here’s what the problems were when I stopped:
>>>> 
>>>> - The only “off the shelf”-capable citation processing library that we
>>>> found last time is in Haskell, which introduced some difficulties for
>>>> distributing the resulting tool.  I know some projects
>>>> (e.g. git-annex) are written in Haskell and distributed as static
>>>> binaries for windows/mac/linux/etc.  We’d need to figure out how to do
>>>> this, or find another citation processing library in an
>>>> easier-to-distribute language.
>>> 
>>> Yes, this is my understanding, too.  In particular, there does not seem
>>> to be an Elisp CSL library, and it would be a lot of work to write one.
>>> 
>>> The other CSL library that looks complete and usable is citeproc-js; but
>>> like the Haskell library (pandoc-citeproc) it would need to be wrapped
>>> somehow so that it can talk with Org.
>>> 
>>> It should be relatively straightforward for someone who knows Javascript
>>> to write such a wrapper, if anyone wants to work on that.  But this does
>>> not really solve the problem with distribution.  
>>
>> It solves many of the hard problems though.  Node.js is distributed
>> as a binary for many platforms.  We’d just have to direct users to
>> install this in the “normal way,” and use the installed binary to
>> interpret the JS source.  Whereas for haskell we’d be stuck building
>> the binary ourselves, worrying about static linking/dll hell/32-bit
>> dinosaurs/any of a half-dozen other problems that I don’t really
>> understand.
>
> I would feel more comfortable relying on a JS library.  Perhaps it’s also
> easier to find people who are willing to work on/knows JS over the long
> haul...
>
>> OTOH, pandoc-citeproc includes a bibtex parser; we’d need to write a JS
>> one and wire it up to citeproc-js.  When I looked (quite some time ago),
>> there did not seem to be any good bibtex parsing libraries in JS (and
>> several third-rate ones).
>
> Bibtex support is essential, of course.
>
> Can someone remind me why citeproc-java isn’t good?  AFAIR, it has a
> bibtex parser.  But probably it lacks in some other dimension...
>
>> OT3rdH, responding to Matt’s message
>> <http://mid.gmane.org/CAN_Dec_52SP6ghR56PudHiH69KSPrQ0VDw2ZMnP5799-CtaVeQ@mail.gmail.com>,
>>
>>> The disadvantage is that, from what I can tell, the javascript
>>> implementation is the canonical version of citeproc, and the place where
>>> improvements are pushed first.  So, for instance, if one wanted to
>>> implement an org-syntax output format for citeproc, citeproc-js would be
>>> the most likely project to support that work.
>>
>> Pandoc can output org syntax, so it may be that we can just link with
>> the main pandoc haskell library as well as pandoc-citeproc and solve
>> this ourselves, without needing upstream support.
>
> Do we WANT to depend on Pandoc?  I would say "no".  In my OS, where we
> finally got a binary distribution of pandoc, the size of pandoc is still
> 1600Mb!  I don’t know if this is representative of other systems, though.
> E.g. what is the size of pandoc+deps in Debian?

I don't know which OS you are using, but just checking on
[[https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/releases/1.15.1]]  and [[https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/releases/tag/1.15.1.1]]:

Windows: 19.7 MB
Mac    : 27.9 MB
Deb    : 20.2 MB

The 1600MB must be including LaTeX?

In General, I like the idea of using the Pandoc approach, as Pandoc
provides a very useful framework for all kinds of conversions (and I
don't like java...)

Nevertheless, I would be happy with whatever is used to implement
proper citation support.

Cheers,

Rainer

>
> Rasmus

-- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :       +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:       +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :       +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):    +49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:      Rainer@krugs.de

Skype:      RMkrug

PGP: 0x0F52F982

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-10-27 13:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 62+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-10-25 13:08 Some projects Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-25 14:43 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-25 16:11   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-25 15:45 ` Eric S Fraga
2015-10-25 16:16   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-25 16:18   ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-25 16:37     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-25 18:13       ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-25 18:24         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-25 17:57 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-10-25 18:00   ` Fabrice Popineau
2015-10-25 18:12     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-25 18:22       ` Eric S Fraga
2015-10-25 19:12         ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-25 19:11       ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-25 21:18         ` Anders Johansson
2015-10-25 21:29           ` Anders Johansson
2015-10-25 19:33       ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-10-25 20:00         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-25 20:17           ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-10-25 20:03         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-25 19:02 ` Rasmus
2015-10-25 19:20   ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-26  2:23   ` Matt Price
2015-10-25 20:24 ` Samuel Wales
2015-10-25 20:25   ` Samuel Wales
2015-10-25 23:03 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-10-26  8:13   ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-26  9:20     ` Rasmus
2015-10-26 16:39   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-10-26 18:17     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-26 22:23       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-10-27  0:03         ` Matt Price
2015-10-27 12:01     ` Aaron Ecay
2015-10-27 12:34       ` Rasmus
2015-10-27 13:03         ` Aaron Ecay
2015-10-27 13:51           ` Rasmus
2015-10-28  1:05             ` Matt Price
2015-10-28  3:28               ` Aldric Giacomoni
2015-10-28  3:31               ` Matt Lundin
2015-10-28 14:36                 ` Matt Price
2015-10-28 15:31                   ` Matt Price
2015-10-28  1:05           ` Matt Price
2015-10-27 13:19         ` Rainer M Krug [this message]
2015-10-27 13:42           ` Rasmus
2015-10-27 14:49             ` Ista Zahn
2015-10-27 15:09               ` Rasmus Pank Roulund
2015-10-27 15:25                 ` Ista Zahn
2015-10-27 15:36                 ` Rainer M Krug
2015-10-28  2:52                 ` Matt Lundin
2015-10-27 13:22         ` Richard Lawrence
2015-10-28  1:57   ` Matt Lundin
2015-10-28  8:56     ` Rasmus
2015-10-28  9:07       ` Rasmus
2015-10-26 17:20 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2015-10-27  8:30   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-27 18:53     ` Eric Abrahamsen
2015-10-27 19:23       ` Rasmus
2015-10-27 20:28         ` Eric Abrahamsen
2015-10-27 20:01       ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-27 21:53       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-26 18:20 ` Kaushal Modi

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