From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Rainer M Krug Subject: Re: Some projects Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:19:23 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87wpub9jts.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <877fmazh2f.fsf@gmail.com> <87fv0x1t49.fsf@berkeley.edu> <874mhczfil.fsf@gmail.com> <87k2q8mqwj.fsf@gmx.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57126) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zr49z-0001KV-Vp for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:19:33 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zr49w-0001Ch-1i for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:19:31 -0400 Received: from mail-wi0-f171.google.com ([209.85.212.171]:33347) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zr49v-0001CE-Ot for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:19:27 -0400 Received: by wijp11 with SMTP id p11so213427424wij.0 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 06:19:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87k2q8mqwj.fsf@gmx.us> (rasmus@gmx.us's message of "Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:34:20 +0100") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Rasmus Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rasmus writes: > Aaron Ecay writes: > >> Hi Richard, hi all, >> >> 2015ko urriak 26an, Richard Lawrence-ek idatzi zuen: >>>=20 >> >> [...] >> >>>> I was working on this rather intensively at one time, but I had to stop >>>> because other aspects of life intruded. I have just been coming back >>>> towards a situation where I can imagine myself having some (still smal= l, >>>> but non-zero) chunks of time to devote to working on org. So I hope I >>>> will be able to pick this back up, but (regrettably) I=E2=80=99m not a= ble to >>>> make any promises. >>>>=20 >>>> Based on my recollection, here=E2=80=99s what the problems were when I= stopped: >>>>=20 >>>> - The only =E2=80=9Coff the shelf=E2=80=9D-capable citation processing= library that we >>>> found last time is in Haskell, which introduced some difficulties for >>>> distributing the resulting tool. I know some projects >>>> (e.g. git-annex) are written in Haskell and distributed as static >>>> binaries for windows/mac/linux/etc. We=E2=80=99d need to figure out h= ow to do >>>> this, or find another citation processing library in an >>>> easier-to-distribute language. >>>=20 >>> Yes, this is my understanding, too. In particular, there does not seem >>> to be an Elisp CSL library, and it would be a lot of work to write one. >>>=20 >>> The other CSL library that looks complete and usable is citeproc-js; but >>> like the Haskell library (pandoc-citeproc) it would need to be wrapped >>> somehow so that it can talk with Org. >>>=20 >>> It should be relatively straightforward for someone who knows Javascript >>> to write such a wrapper, if anyone wants to work on that. But this does >>> not really solve the problem with distribution.=20=20 >> >> It solves many of the hard problems though. Node.js is distributed >> as a binary for many platforms. We=E2=80=99d just have to direct users = to >> install this in the =E2=80=9Cnormal way,=E2=80=9D and use the installed = binary to >> interpret the JS source. Whereas for haskell we=E2=80=99d be stuck buil= ding >> the binary ourselves, worrying about static linking/dll hell/32-bit >> dinosaurs/any of a half-dozen other problems that I don=E2=80=99t really >> understand. > > I would feel more comfortable relying on a JS library. Perhaps it=E2=80= =99s also > easier to find people who are willing to work on/knows JS over the long > haul... > >> OTOH, pandoc-citeproc includes a bibtex parser; we=E2=80=99d need to wri= te a JS >> one and wire it up to citeproc-js. When I looked (quite some time ago), >> there did not seem to be any good bibtex parsing libraries in JS (and >> several third-rate ones). > > Bibtex support is essential, of course. > > Can someone remind me why citeproc-java isn=E2=80=99t good? AFAIR, it ha= s a > bibtex parser. But probably it lacks in some other dimension... > >> OT3rdH, responding to Matt=E2=80=99s message >> , >> >>> The disadvantage is that, from what I can tell, the javascript >>> implementation is the canonical version of citeproc, and the place where >>> improvements are pushed first. So, for instance, if one wanted to >>> implement an org-syntax output format for citeproc, citeproc-js would be >>> the most likely project to support that work. >> >> Pandoc can output org syntax, so it may be that we can just link with >> the main pandoc haskell library as well as pandoc-citeproc and solve >> this ourselves, without needing upstream support. > > Do we WANT to depend on Pandoc? I would say "no". In my OS, where we > finally got a binary distribution of pandoc, the size of pandoc is still > 1600Mb! I don=E2=80=99t know if this is representative of other systems,= though. > E.g. what is the size of pandoc+deps in Debian? I don't know which OS you are using, but just checking on [[https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/releases/1.15.1]] and [[https://github.com= /jgm/pandoc/releases/tag/1.15.1.1]]: Windows: 19.7 MB Mac : 27.9 MB Deb : 20.2 MB The 1600MB must be including LaTeX? In General, I like the idea of using the Pandoc approach, as Pandoc provides a very useful framework for all kinds of conversions (and I don't like java...) Nevertheless, I would be happy with whatever is used to implement proper citation support. Cheers, Rainer > > Rasmus =2D-=20 Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology,= UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany) Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology Stellenbosch University South Africa Tel : +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44 Cell: +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98 Fax : +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44 Fax (D): +49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44 email: Rainer@krugs.de Skype: RMkrug PGP: 0x0F52F982 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJWL3nbAAoJENvXNx4PUvmCRJkIAM2Efv6MQQI3rNoMA/deX5TS +hS+9DMGuSvp1MtS/XI50k5HhQ1NOEH4HNKwFAi3PhtMTrC4gUa2XjJmvVGEw6ZM /sRg9nVq5AjWVSRgVm7t1NafRNQFI1ZAUE0igPGUetIae2cgDsq+OsUGCHpn3IbK S+Bvh5+/ceMNXthW8agsCGE7fRh6CzO9vonb0hGhYKlqUQiJV5wILtBp/13pOGbf z4bXYMNfN692pEF83TCgtRDps6A9BpnqFr8NbENW5fe6N9uXa5muLSr3WoPZFzg+ yvI5HJ3EpmvJ2hdMYGMYOs+fQepWIGudTXnZVuZ1tuLQ+z/WTqos1Ab8ZZjAC9M= =CFz2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--