Re: An Org-mode clone for Vim

From: John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com>
To: Herbert Sitz <hsitz@nwlink.com>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: An Org-mode clone for Vim
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:50:55 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=24BvMy+0WUcok1WPcx+1tfFdq5KGph4SVFOKs@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <loom.20101105T201146-870@post.gmane.org>

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On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Herbert Sitz <hsitz@nwlink.com> wrote:

> I've been working on a Vim plugin that is file-compatible with Org-mode and
> that
> clones a good subset of features...

> I've made a video showing what it looks like and demonstrating some of the
> basic
> outlining stuff.  I just uploaded it to Vimeo, and it tells me it will be
> available for viewing in a couple hours (i.e., around 3:15pm PST today,
> Friday
> Nov. 5,2010).  When available it will be viewable at this link:
> http://vimeo.com/16543959

Wow! This is pretty neat. You've done some really cool things.

>
> For someone who asks, 'Why would you bother to do this for Vim when it's
> already
> done in Emacs?", I would have these responses:
>
> 1.  A lot of people don't like Emacs.  It is of course an insanely powerful
> piece of software, but a lot of people can never get accustomed to the
> chord-key
> command system, or if they do get semi-accustomed they don't like it or it
> causes them physical pain.
>

I started learning emacs only for org-mode and have never really used vim
except for editing a few config files when nano is not available. Since I
started with emacs and it has what I want (org-mode), I can't think of a
reason to learn yet another program with it's own set of shortcut oddities
:) I can relate to the shortcuts... Sometimes two in a row involving ctrl
makes me scratch my head. Though with emacs I'm pretty sure you can
literally change *anything* you want.

Also, since you're using the export features of org-mode, and as you said
you can use vimperator or whatever to emulate vim keystrokes in emacs... is
there anything *really* that you can do with the vim version that emacs
can't do? I *completely* understand #5 below -- do it just to do it and it's
fun. Other than that, though, aside from some navigation differences and the
(#_of_lines) at the end of folded headers I was unsure what was to be
different. Now you work in vim and just call org-mode to export?

> 2.  Some people are of the opinion that, while Emacs is admittedly a great
> operating system/development environment, it lacks a decent text editor.
>  ;)
>

I've heard this but never understood what was being said.

>
> That's about it.  If there's any interest I'll do more videos showing how
> other
> Org-mode features have been implemented in the Vim plugin, and where they
> stand
> right now in the Vim plugin compared to Org-mode.
>
>
After watching the video, my favorites that might be cool to see in org-mode
were:
- (#_of_lines) instead of ... at the end of headings. Very, very cool. I
like that. I also like that they were right flushed instead of right after
the word. Kind of makes it quite easy to see where there is hidden
information. This has come up before as a potential liability. There are
workarounds, but I particularly liked yours!

- Navigation. I *definitely *feel the emacs shortcut pain for certain
things. I don't mind exporting. I'm so used to it that I do C-x C-s C-c C-e
p without blinking to publish to PDF. *But*, I highly dislike things like
C-c C-[n/p] or C-c C-[f/b] for navigating headlines. Your arrow navigation
was appealing, perhaps only because I'm not as used to these shortcuts as
others. I find myself using two finger scroll, pg[up/dn] and
crtl+[right/left arrow] to move around much more than the emacs built-in
shortcuts. As I said earlier, though, surely they can be changed...  I just
haven't.

Great work and very cool project. Thanks for sharing and I really enjoyed
the video!

John

> Regards,
>
> Herb Sitz
> Seattle, WA
>
>
>
>
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