From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: John Hendy Subject: Re: An Org-mode clone for Vim Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:50:55 -0500 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0333673707==" Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=56971 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PEUBX-00034K-Hm for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 17:51:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PEUBW-0001h9-0N for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 17:50:59 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.214.41]:37449) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PEUBV-0001h4-N0 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 17:50:57 -0400 Received: by bwz16 with SMTP id 16so3144144bwz.0 for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 14:50:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Herbert Sitz Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org --===============0333673707== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d6479be0f7350494554445 --0016e6d6479be0f7350494554445 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Herbert Sitz wrote: > I've been working on a Vim plugin that is file-compatible with Org-mode and > that > clones a good subset of features... > I've made a video showing what it looks like and demonstrating some of the > basic > outlining stuff. I just uploaded it to Vimeo, and it tells me it will be > available for viewing in a couple hours (i.e., around 3:15pm PST today, > Friday > Nov. 5,2010). When available it will be viewable at this link: > http://vimeo.com/16543959 Wow! This is pretty neat. You've done some really cool things. > > For someone who asks, 'Why would you bother to do this for Vim when it's > already > done in Emacs?", I would have these responses: > > 1. A lot of people don't like Emacs. It is of course an insanely powerful > piece of software, but a lot of people can never get accustomed to the > chord-key > command system, or if they do get semi-accustomed they don't like it or it > causes them physical pain. > I started learning emacs only for org-mode and have never really used vim except for editing a few config files when nano is not available. Since I started with emacs and it has what I want (org-mode), I can't think of a reason to learn yet another program with it's own set of shortcut oddities :) I can relate to the shortcuts... Sometimes two in a row involving ctrl makes me scratch my head. Though with emacs I'm pretty sure you can literally change *anything* you want. Also, since you're using the export features of org-mode, and as you said you can use vimperator or whatever to emulate vim keystrokes in emacs... is there anything *really* that you can do with the vim version that emacs can't do? I *completely* understand #5 below -- do it just to do it and it's fun. Other than that, though, aside from some navigation differences and the (#_of_lines) at the end of folded headers I was unsure what was to be different. Now you work in vim and just call org-mode to export? > 2. Some people are of the opinion that, while Emacs is admittedly a great > operating system/development environment, it lacks a decent text editor. > ;) > I've heard this but never understood what was being said. > > That's about it. If there's any interest I'll do more videos showing how > other > Org-mode features have been implemented in the Vim plugin, and where they > stand > right now in the Vim plugin compared to Org-mode. > > After watching the video, my favorites that might be cool to see in org-mode were: - (#_of_lines) instead of ... at the end of headings. Very, very cool. I like that. I also like that they were right flushed instead of right after the word. Kind of makes it quite easy to see where there is hidden information. This has come up before as a potential liability. There are workarounds, but I particularly liked yours! - Navigation. I *definitely *feel the emacs shortcut pain for certain things. I don't mind exporting. I'm so used to it that I do C-x C-s C-c C-e p without blinking to publish to PDF. *But*, I highly dislike things like C-c C-[n/p] or C-c C-[f/b] for navigating headlines. Your arrow navigation was appealing, perhaps only because I'm not as used to these shortcuts as others. I find myself using two finger scroll, pg[up/dn] and crtl+[right/left arrow] to move around much more than the emacs built-in shortcuts. As I said earlier, though, surely they can be changed... I just haven't. Great work and very cool project. Thanks for sharing and I really enjoyed the video! John > Regards, > > Herb Sitz > Seattle, WA > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > --0016e6d6479be0f7350494554445 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Herbert Sitz <hsitz@nwlink.com= > wrote:
I've been working on a Vim plugin that is file-compatible with Org-mode= and that
clones a good subset of features...

I've made a video showing what it looks like and demonstrating some of = the basic
outlining stuff. =A0I just uploaded it to Vimeo, and it tells me it will be=
available for viewing in a couple hours (i.e., around 3:15pm PST today, Fri= day
Nov. 5,2010). =A0When available it will be viewable at this link:
http://vimeo.com/16= 543959

Wow! This is pretty neat. You'= ve done some really cool things.
=A0

For someone who asks, 'Why would you bother to do this for Vim when it&= #39;s already
done in Emacs?", I would have these responses:

1. =A0A lot of people don't like Emacs. =A0It is of course an insanely = powerful
piece of software, but a lot of people can never get accustomed to the chor= d-key
command system, or if they do get semi-accustomed they don't like it or= it
causes them physical pain.

I started le= arning emacs only for org-mode and have never really used vim except for ed= iting a few config files when nano is not available. Since I started with e= macs and it has what I want (org-mode), I can't think of a reason to le= arn yet another program with it's own set of shortcut oddities :) I can= relate to the shortcuts... Sometimes two in a row involving ctrl makes me = scratch my head. Though with emacs I'm pretty sure you can literally ch= ange anything=A0you want.

Also, since you're using the export features of org= -mode, and as you said you can use vimperator or whatever to emulate vim ke= ystrokes in emacs... is there anything really=A0that you can do with= the vim version that emacs can't do? I completely=A0understand = #5 below -- do it just to do it and it's fun. Other than that, though, = aside from some navigation differences and the (#_of_lines) at the end of f= olded headers I was unsure what was to be different. Now you work in vim an= d just call org-mode to export?
=A0
2. =A0Some people are of the opinion that, while Emacs is admittedly a grea= t
operating system/development environment, it lacks a decent text editor. = =A0;)

I've heard this but never und= erstood what was being said.
=A0

That's about it. =A0If there's any interest I'll do more videos= showing how other
Org-mode features have been implemented in the Vim plugin, and where they s= tand
right now in the Vim plugin compared to Org-mode.


After watching the video, my favorites= that might be cool to see in org-mode were:
- (#_of_lines) inste= ad of ... at the end of headings. Very, very cool. I like that. I also like= that they were right flushed instead of right after the word. Kind of make= s it quite easy to see where there is hidden information. This has come up = before as a potential liability. There are workarounds, but I particularly = liked yours!

- Navigation. I definitely feel the emacs shortc= ut pain for certain things. I don't mind exporting. I'm so used to = it that I do C-x C-s C-c C-e p without blinking to publish to PDF. But, I highly dislike things like C-c C-[n/p] or C-c C-[f/b] for navigating = headlines. Your arrow navigation was appealing, perhaps only because I'= m not as used to these shortcuts as others. I find myself using two finger = scroll, pg[up/dn] and crtl+[right/left arrow] to move around much more than= the emacs built-in shortcuts. As I said earlier, though, surely they can b= e changed... =A0I just haven't.

Great work and very cool project. Thanks for sharing an= d I really enjoyed the video!


John<= /div>
=A0
Regards,

Herb Sitz
Seattle, WA




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--0016e6d6479be0f7350494554445-- --===============0333673707== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode --===============0333673707==--