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From: "Tom Breton (Tehom)" <tehom@panix.com>
To: nicholas.dokos@hp.com
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Docs submitted (Was Re: Advice sought on managing decision alternatives.)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:17:52 -0500 (EST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1555.65.96.63.84.1234412272.squirrel@mail.panix.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <19798.1234395529@alphaville.usa.hp.com>

nicholas.dokos@hp.com wrote:
> Tom Breton (Tehom) <tehom@panix.com> wrote:

>> (let*
>>    ((x 1))
>>    (eval-after-load 'simple (setq x 2))
>>    x)
>>
>> =3D> 2
>>
>>
>>
>> (let*
>>    ((x 1))
>>    (eval-after-load 'simple '(setq x 2))
>>    x)
>>
>> =3D> 1
>
>
> Are you sure about this? My understanding of this differs from
> yours:

This is definitely a "Boy is my face red" moment.  You are completely
correct.  I had misunderstood `eval-after-load' as a macro.  Upon looking
at subr.el, it is obvious that you are right and I am wrong.

Thank you for pointing all that out.

> eval-after-load is an ordinary function (not a special form), and
> function evaluation in most LISPs (elisp in particular) evaluates
> arguments before the function is called on them. So if you give it an
> unquoted form, the form will be evaluated *before* eval-after-load gets
> its hands on it. That seems to me to defeat the purpose. I'd think that
> the thing to do is to give the quoted form as argument, then function
> evaluation evaluates the argument (i.e. unquotes the quoted form,
> giving back the form) which is then passed to eval-after-load for
> action. The semantics of eval-after-load imply that (depending on
> whether the library is already loaded or not) the form may be evaluated
> once. It is then squirrelled away and if the library is ever loaded
> again, it is evaluated (perhaps for the first time, perhaps for the
> nth), *after* the library is loaded.
>
> And I think your demonstration is misleading: after doing the
> eval-after-load, you need to reload "simple" to trigger the "after-load"
> evaluation, otherwise eval-after-load reduces to just plain eval (in
> this  particular case, since simple is, as you point out, already loaded -
> things would be different if you had chosen some obscure library that
> is not already loaded):
>
> (let*
>     ((x 1))
>     (eval-after-load 'simple (setq x 2))
>     (load-library "simple")
>     x)
> 2
>
> (let*
>     ((x 1))
>     (eval-after-load 'simple '(setq x 2))
>     (load-library "simple")
>     x)
> 2
>
> In the first case, (setq x 2) was evaluated, x was set to 2 and 2 was
> passed into eval-after-load. Assuming that simple is already loaded, the
> 2 is evaluated: the result is 2 and it is just thrown away. After the
> library is loaded again, 2 is evaluated again and the result is 2 and it
> just thrown away. Since x was set to 2 before, the value of x is 2.
>
> In the second case, (quote (setq x 2)) is evaluated, so the form (setq x
> 2) is passed to eval-after-load. Assuming that simple is already loaded,
> the form is evaluated, setting x to 2 and giving a result of 2 (which is
> thrown away). After the library is loaded, (setq x 2) is eval'led again,
> setting x to 2 again, and giving a result of 2 (which is thrown away).
>
> In both cases, the value of x (and therefore the value the let* form
> returns) is 2. But it seems to me that the second case is the useful
> one.
>
> Perhaps the most telling evidence that the quote should be there however
> is the following: if you look at eval-after-load instances in the emacs
> lisp directory, you'll see that the second argument in all of them is
> quoted or at least (when partial evaluation is required) backquoted --
> although I guess one could argue that they all originated by copying a
> badly constructed precursor - the programming version of original sin!-)
>
> Regards,
> Nick
>
>

  reply	other threads:[~2009-02-12  4:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20090101170227.C707734803@mail2.panix.com>
2009-01-01 22:53 ` Feature request and patch - blocked TODO to say BLOCKED Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-01-09  8:16   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-01-15  2:34     ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-01-17  8:01       ` Carsten Dominik
2009-01-19  3:33     ` Advice sought on managing decision alternatives Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-01-22 11:15       ` Carsten Dominik
2009-01-31  4:21         ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-01-31  5:41           ` Carsten Dominik
2009-01-31 18:36             ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-01 15:54               ` James TD Smith
2009-02-06 13:08           ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-06 16:16             ` William Henney
2009-02-06 20:07             ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-07  0:18               ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-07 20:46                 ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-08 13:06                   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-08 20:25                     ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-09  6:42                       ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-10  3:14                         ` Docs submitted (Was Re: Advice sought on managing decision alternatives.) Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-10  7:55                           ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-24  0:51                             ` org-choose bugfix Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-24  3:05                               ` Manish
2009-04-07  0:13                                 ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-04-08 13:13                                   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-24  5:51                               ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-10  8:46                           ` Docs submitted (Was Re: Advice sought on managing decision alternatives.) Manish
2009-02-10  9:12                             ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-10 10:26                               ` Manish
2009-02-10 22:48                                 ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-12 12:50                                   ` Manish
2009-02-12 20:13                                     ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-13  4:23                                       ` Manish
2009-02-12 20:55                                     ` Patch " Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-13  4:38                                       ` Manish
2009-02-11  1:08                                 ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-11 10:34                                   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-11 21:41                                     ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-11 23:38                                       ` Nick Dokos
2009-02-12  4:17                                         ` Tom Breton (Tehom) [this message]
2009-02-11 23:44                                       ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-12  4:27                                         ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-12 15:49                                           ` Nick Dokos
2009-02-12 20:32                                             ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-12 21:25                                               ` Nick Dokos
2009-02-11 12:29                                   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-11 14:58                                     ` Docs submitted Bernt Hansen
2009-02-11 17:33                                       ` Samuel Wales
2009-02-11 15:38                                     ` Docs submitted (Was Re: Advice sought on managing decision alternatives.) Daniel Clemente
2009-02-11 15:41                                       ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-11 20:02                                     ` Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-11 23:45                                       ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-11  1:45                                 ` Slight fix to update-org.sh Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-10 23:19                               ` Docs submitted (Was Re: Advice sought on managing decision alternatives.) Tom Breton (Tehom)
2009-02-11 10:34                                 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-10 22:45                             ` Tom Breton (Tehom)

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