speed keys for plain lists?

speed keys for plain lists?

[Bill White]

I'm working on a project that uses deeply-nested plain lists, and I'm
finding navigation to be a chore.  Is there a way to enable speed keys
(info "(org) Speed keys") for navigation of plain lists?

Thanks -

bw
-- 
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com
"No ma'am, we're musicians."

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Bill White]

On Mon May 09 2016 at 06:30, Bill White <billw@wolfram.com> wrote:

> I'm working on a project that uses deeply-nested plain lists, and I'm
> finding navigation to be a chore.  Is there a way to enable speed keys
> (info "(org) Speed keys") for navigation of plain lists?

Following the ancient tradition of stumbling upon an answer ten minutes
after asking the question... I just found that org-forward-element and
org-backward-element will do the job, and they work fairly intelligently
with org-beginning-of-line.

Now if only one could bind these to more-convenient keys than M-{ and
M-} when in a plain list.

Cheers -

bw
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com
"No ma'am, we're musicians."

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 10:47 AM Bill White <billw@wolfram.com> wrote:

> Now if only one could bind these to more-convenient keys than M-{ and
> M-} when in a plain list.


Now only if emacs allowed changing the default key bindings :P :)

Check out C-h f define-key

(define-key org-mode-map (kbd "KEY") #'COMMAND)
-- 

-- 
Kaushal Modi

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Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Eric S Fraga]

On Monday,  9 May 2016 at 14:15, Bill White wrote:
> Now if only one could bind these to more-convenient keys than M-{ and
> M-} when in a plain list.

Have a look at avy or ace-jump-mode?

I use evil with ace-jump-mode and it works really well for quick
movement around the visible part of a buffer: two chars for moving to
any line on the screen.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (0xFFFCF67D), Emacs 25.0.92.1, Org release_8.3.4-739-g789412

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-05-09, at 16:57, Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 10:47 AM Bill White <billw@wolfram.com> wrote:
>
>> Now if only one could bind these to more-convenient keys than M-{ and
>> M-} when in a plain list.
>
>
> Now only if emacs allowed changing the default key bindings :P :)
>
> Check out C-h f define-key
>
> (define-key org-mode-map (kbd "KEY") #'COMMAND)

I guess that OP would like some key to do this only when in plain list.
It's slightly less easy then, and the preferred way (advice/new
function/maybe some hook) might depend on the particular choice of the
keys.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[John Kitchin]

I found this approach to context aware key bindings useful:

http://endlessparentheses.com/define-context-aware-keys-in-emacs.html

Marcin Borkowski writes:

> On 2016-05-09, at 16:57, Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 10:47 AM Bill White <billw@wolfram.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Now if only one could bind these to more-convenient keys than M-{ and
>>> M-} when in a plain list.
>>
>>
>> Now only if emacs allowed changing the default key bindings :P :)
>>
>> Check out C-h f define-key
>>
>> (define-key org-mode-map (kbd "KEY") #'COMMAND)
>
> I guess that OP would like some key to do this only when in plain list.
> It's slightly less easy then, and the preferred way (advice/new
> function/maybe some hook) might depend on the particular choice of the
> keys.
>
> Best,


--
Professor John Kitchin
Doherty Hall A207F
Department of Chemical Engineering
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
412-268-7803
@johnkitchin
http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 11:43 AM Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:

> I guess that OP would like some key to do this only when in plain list.
> It's slightly less easy then, and the preferred way (advice/new
> function/maybe some hook) might depend on the particular choice of the
> keys.
>

Right, the define-key solution was under the assumption that M-{ and M-}
already do what the OP needs.

They are bound to org-backward-element and org-forward-element by default
in org-mode-map. So if M-{/M-} already does what he want, he can simply
bind the same commands to keys of his liking.

Actually org uses org-defkey instead of define-key for these bindings. But
they are not context-aware keys; they apply to org-mode-map:

http://orgmode.org/cgit.cgi/org-mode.git/tree/lisp/org.el?id=8127b3c30d8a2217468068a73f23bfa4945573dc#n19895

-- 

-- 
Kaushal Modi

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Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Eric S Fraga]

Jumping in again: I wonder if the OP would prefer org-forward-sentence
(M-e) instead of org-forward-element?  It's a bit finer in
granularity...

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (0xFFFCF67D), Emacs 25.0.92.1, Org release_8.3.4-739-g789412

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Bill White]

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On Mon May 09 2016 at 13:44, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:

> Jumping in again: I wonder if the OP would prefer org-forward-sentence
> (M-e) instead of org-forward-element?  It's a bit finer in
> granularity...

Thank you all for the suggestions thus far.  I'll attach the org file
I'm working with:


[-- Attachment #2: OED entry --]
[-- Type: text/x-org, Size: 17231 bytes --]

 - Volume 1

   - Abate 1

     - Abate (ăbēⁱ⸳t), v.¹ 

     - [a. OFr. abat-re, abat-tre, f. à prep. to + batre battre to beat: — late
       L. battĕre, batĕre, from cl. L. batuĕre.  In the technical senses 18, 19,
       the identity of the prefix is uncertain, and the relation to the other
       senses undetermined.]

     - I. To beat down, demolish, destroy.

       - 1. trans. To beat down, throw down, demolish, level with the ground.
         Obsolete except in Law.

         - 1366 Maundev.: viii. 95 (1839) :: Jerusalem hath often tyme ben
              distroyed, & the Walles abated & beten doun.
         - c 1420 Palladius on Husb. II. 5 :: Hem to desolate Of erthe,
              and all from every roote abate.
         - 1494 Fabyan: vii. 490 :: Yᵉ gates of Bruges, of Ipre, of
              Courtray, and of other townes were abated and throwyn downe.
         - 1576 Lambarde: Peramb. Kent 185 (1826) :: Bycause Apultre was
              not of sufficient strength for their defence and coverture
              they abated it to the ground.
         - 1643 Prynne: Doom of Cowardice & Treach. 4 :: And that night
              came a great party of them, and by fine force made an
              assault and abated the Baracadoes.
         - 1664 Evelyn: Kal. Hort. 13 (1729) :: During the hottest months
              carefully abate the weeds.
         - 1809 Tomlins: Law Dict. s.v. :: To abate; to prostrate, break
              down, or destroy.  In law to abate a castle or fort is to
              beat it down.
         - 1864 Wandsw. Br. Act 44 :: If any work made by the Company in,
              over, or across the River Thames .. be abandoned or suffered
              to fall into disuse or decay, the Conservators of the River
              Thames may abate and remove the same.

       - † 2. fig. To put down, put an end to, do away with (any state or
         condition of things). Obs.

         - c 1270 E. E. Poems, Old Age 149 :: When eld blowid he is blode . his
              ble is sone abatid.
         - 1340 Hampole: Pr. Consc. 1672 :: Ded [=death], of al þat it comes to,
              abates And chaunges all myghtes and states.
         - c 1350 Will. Palerne 1141 :: To abate þe bost of þat breme duke.
         - 1413 Lydgate Pylg. Sowle v. xii. 103 (1843) :: And fynally abatid is
              the strif.
         - 1585 Abp. Sandys: Serm. 79 (1841) :: St. Paul abateth this opinion.
              Ibid. 293 To abate the haughty conceit which naturally we have of
              ourselves.

       - 3. Esp. Law.

         - a. To put an end to, do away with (as a nuisance, or an action).

           - *1297* R. Glouc. 447 :: And oþer monye luþer lawes, þat hys
                elderne adde ywroʒt, He behet, þat he wolde abate.
           - *1768* Blackstone: Comm. III. 168 :: The primitive sense is
                that of abating or beating down a nusance.
           - *1780* Burke: Sp. on Econ. Ref. Wks. III. 247 :: They abate the
                nuisance, they pull down the house.
           - *1844* H. Rogers: Essays I. ii. 88 :: He has not lived in vain
                who has successfully endeavoured to abate the nuisances of
                his own time.
           - *1859* De Quincey: The Cæsars Wks. X. 104 :: To put him down
                and abate him as a monster.

         - b. To render null and void (a writ).

           - *1580* Baret: Alvearie :: His accusation or writte is abated or
                ouerthrowne when the Attorney by ignorance declareth not the
                processe in due forme, or the writte abateth.
           - *1621* Sanderson: Serm. Ad. Cl. II. xxii. 30 (1674) :: And any
                one short Clause or Proviso, not legal, is sufficient to
                abate the whole Writ or Instrument.
           - *1726* Ayliffe: Parergon 266 :: This only suspends but does not
                abate the action.
           - *1741* Robinson: Gavelkind vi. 109 :: The Writ was abated by the
                Court.
           - *1809* Tomlins: Law Dict. s. v. ::  To abate a nuisance is to
                destroy, remove, or put an end to it. .. To abate a writ is
                to defeat or overthrow it by shewing some error or
                exception.

       - 4. intr. (through refl.) To be at an end, to become null or void;
         esp. of writs, actions, appeals.

         - *1602* W. Fulbecke: First Part of Parallele 62 :: In the summons
              A. was omitted, wherefore the writte abated.
         - *1745* De Foe: Eng. Tradesm. I. xvi. 148 :: Commissions shall not
              abate by the death of his majesty.
         - *1768* Blackstone: Comm. III. 247 :: The suit is of no effect,
              and the writ shall abate.
         - *1809* Tomlins Law Dict. s.v. :: It is said an appeal shall
              abate, and be defeated by reason of covin or deceit.
         - *1860* Massey: Hist. Engl. III. xxxi. 437 :: The Committee of
              Privileges resolved, that impeachments stood on the same
              footing as appeals and writs of error; consequently they did
              not abate.

     - II. To bring down, lower, depress.

       - † 5. To bring down (a person) physically, socially, or mentally; to
         depress, humble, degrade; to cast down, deject.  Obs.

         - c *1325* Grosseteste: Castel of Loue 1334 :: He was abated of his
              tour [= in his turn].
         - c 1386 Chaucer: Persones T. 118 :: The heyher that they were in
              this present lif, the more schuln thay ben abatid and defouled
              in helle.
         - *1470-85* Malory: Morte Arthur (1634 repr. 1816) I. 241 :: Then sir
              Beaumains abated his countenance.
         - *1564* Bauldwin Moral Phil. (ed. Palfr.) iii. 4 :: Hee is to be
              honoured among them that be honoured, that fortune abateth
              without fault.
         - *1618* Raleigh: Remains (1644) 27 :: If any great person to be
              abated, not to deal with him by calumniation or forged matter.
         - *1651* Jer. Taylor: Sermons I. ix. 104 :: They were abated with
              humane infirmities and not at all heightened by the Spirit.

       - † 6. intr. To fall, be dejected, humbled.  Obs.

         - *1306* Political Songs (Camd. S.) 216 :: Ys continaunce abated eny
              bost to make.
         - *1387* Trevisa: Higden Rolls Ser. II. 185 :: Þe bolde nolle abateþ
              [cervix deprimitur].
         - c *1460* Urbanitatis in Babees Book (1868) 16 :: Lette not þy
              contynaunce also abate.
         - *1642* Rogers: Naaman 30 :: The naturall spirit of the hautiest
              .. will abate and come downe.

       - † 7. To abate of; to bring down (a person) from; hence to deprive of,
         curtail of.  Obs.

         - c 1430 Octouian Imperator 1316 (Weber III. 212) :: He was
              abated of all hys hete.
         - c 1530 Ld. Berners: Arthur of Lytell Bryt. 105 (1814) :: That
              she be not thereby abbated of her noblenesse and
              estate. 
         - 1605 Shakespeare: Lear II. iv. 161 :: She hath abated me of
              halfe my Traine. 
         - 1637 Lisle tr.: Du Bartas 30 :: Mens bodies were abated of
              their bignesse.

     - III. To bring down in size, amount, value, force.

       - † 8. To beat back the edge or point of anything; to turn the
         edge; to blunt, lit. and fig. Obs.

         - 1548 Hall: Chron. 689 :: Such wepons as the capitain of the
              Castle shall occupie, that is, Morrice pike sworde target,
              the poynt and edge abated.
         - 1594 Shakespeare: Rich. III, V. v. 35 :: Abate the edge of
              Traitors, gracious Lord.
         - 1613 W. Browne: Brit. Past. I. iv. (1772) 107 ::  With plaints
              which might abate a tyrant’s knife.
         - 1625 Bacon: Essays ix :: To abate the edge of envy.
         - 1634 Heywood: Maidenh. lost xi. 120 :: The name of Childe
              Abates my Swords keene edge.
         - 1699 Evelyn: Acetaria 145 (1729) :: Such as abate and take off
              the keeness.

       - 9. To bring down in size; lower, lessen or diminish (things tangible). arch.

         - 1398 Trevisa: Barth. De Pr. Rerum (1495) XVII. lxxviii. 652 :: Gutta
              abatyth all swellynge and bolnynge.
         - 1611 Bible: Gen. viii. 3 :: After the end of the hundred and
              fiftie dayes, the waters were abated.
         - 1611 Woodall: Surgeon’s Mate Wks. (1653) 11 :: Small Files are
              used .. to abate any end of a bone .. which is fractured.
         - 1662 Evelyn: Chalcog. (1769) 59 :: In wood, which is a graving
              much more difficult; because all the work is to be abated
              and cut hollow.
         - 1813 Scott: Peveril (1865) 241 :: A lucky accident had abated
              Chiffinch’s party to their own number.

       - 10. intr. To decrease in size or bulk. arch.

         - 1587 Golding: Mornay’s Chr. Relig. xiv. 220 (1617) :: The more
              that the body abateth in flesh, the more workfull is the
              mind.
         - 1597 Warner: Albion’s Eng. III. xviii. 86 :: Their poyson,
              growing when it seemeth to abate.
         - 1726 De Foe: Hist. Devil I. x. 121 (1840) :: The arke rested,
              the waters abating.

       - 11. trans. To bring down in value, price, or estimation. arch.

         - 1340 Ayenb. 28 :: Vor þe guode los to abatye, and hire guodes
              to loʒy, þe envious agrayþeþ alle his gynnes.
         - c 1400 Rom. Rose 286 :: She ne might all abate his prise.
         - c 1460 Fortescue: Absol. & Lim. Mon. (1714) 116 :: Hou the
              Pricys of Merchaundises, growyn in this Lond, may be holdyn
              up, and encreasyd, and the Prycys of Merchaundise, brought
              into this Lond abatyd.
         - 1651 Hobbes: Leviathan II. xxii. 119 :: They raise the price of
              those, and abate the price of these.
         - 1670 R. Coke: Disc. of Trade 33 :: If the Importation of Irish
              Cattel had abated the Rents of England one half.

       - 12. intr. To fall in amount, value, or price, suffer reduction,
         be reduced.  arch. exc. in Law.

         - 1745 De Foe: Eng. Tradesm. II. xxxii. 101 :: As wages abate to
              the poor, provisions must abate in the market, and rents
              must sink and abate to the landlords.
         - 1768 Blackstone: Comm. II. 512 :: And in case of a deficiency
              of assets, all the general legacies must abate
              proportionably, in order to pay the debts.

       - 13. trans. To lessen or lower in force or intensity (a quality,
         feeling, action, etc.); to diminish, lessen, lighten, relieve,
         mitigate.

         - 1330 R. Brunne: Chron. 269 :: His moder Helianore abated
              þer grete bale.
         - 1340 Hampole: Pr. Consc. 2840 :: For na thyng may abate þair
              pyne.
         - 1574 tr. Murlorats Apocalips 33 :: Charitie is lyke fyre,
              whyche is easyly put oute if it be abated.
         - 1593 T. Hyll: Profitable Arte of Gard. 137 :: The sauor of them
              [garlic] wilbe greatly abated.
         - 1599 Shakespeare: Hen. V, III. ii. 24 :: Abate thy Rage, abate
              thy manly Rage.
         - 1611 Bible: Deut, xxxiv. 7 :: His eye was not dimme, nor his
              naturall force abated.
         - 1670 Walton: Lives IV. 288 :: Lord, abate my great affliction,
              or increase my patience.
         - 1759 Robertson: Hist. Scot. I. 11. 156 :: She shook the
              fidelity, or abated the ardour of some.
         - 1859 Mill: Liberty ii. 68 :: To abate the force of these
              considerations.

       - 14. intr. To fall off in force or intensity; grow less, calm down.

         - c 1400 Destr. Troy XI. 4665 :: Sesit the wyndis; The bremnes
              abated.
         - 1599 Shakespeare: Hen. V, IV.iv.50 :: My fury shall abate, and
              I The Crownes will take.
         - 1697 Dryden: Virg. Georg. I. 463 (1721) :: When Winter’s Rage
              abates, when chearful Hours Awake the Spring.
         - 1720 De Foe: Capt. Singleton xvi. 274 :: Towards morning the
              wind abated a little.
         - 1837 Carlyle Fr. Rev. I. VI. iii. 322 :: This conflagration of
              the South-East will abate.
         - 1869 Echo Oct. 9 :: The Foot and Mouth Disease which has been
              raging with some virulence is now beginning to abate.

     - IV. To strike off, deduct.

       - 15. trans. To strike off or take away a part, to deduct, subtract.
     
         - a. with of (put of, from obs.).

           - c 1391 Chaucer: Astrolabe 34 :: Abate thanne thees degrees
                And minutes owt of 90.
           - 1413 Lydgate: Pylgr. Sowle IV. viii. 62 (1483) :: He nele noo
                thynge abaten of the prys.
           - 1551 Recorde: Pathway to Knowl. II. Introd. :: And if you
                abate euen portions from things that are equal, those
                paries that remain shall be equall also.
           - 1570 Dee: Math. Praef. 9 :: If from 4. ye abate 1. there
                resteth 3.
           - 1611 Bible: Lev. xxvii, 18 :: It shall be abated from thy
                estimation.
           - 1679-88 Secret Service Moneys of Chas. & Jas. II, 126 (Camd. S. 1851) ::
                To be abated out of the moneys that are or shall be due
                to him for work.
           - 1741 Complete Family-Piece I. ii. 192 :: Take .. 9 eggs,
                abating 4 whites.
           - 1745 De Foe: Eng. Tradesm. I. xix. 178 :: Rather than abate a
                farthing of the price they had asked.
           - 1866 Rogers Agric. & Prices I. xx. 506 :: The merchant
                abating something of his morning price.

         - b. with obj. (orig. dative} of the person.

           - 1465 Manners & Househ. Exps. 465 :: Roberd Thrope lente me
                l.s. .. and herof he moste a bate me [ = to me] .xiiij.s.
           - 1647 Sanderson: Sermons Ad Aul. XV. I. (1673) 209 :: He
                therefore sendeth for his Master’s Debtors forthwith;
                abateth them of their several Sums, and makes the Books
                agree.
           - 1671 Flavel: Fount. of Life iii. 6 :: When the Payment was
                making, he will not abate him one Farthing.
           - 1771 Franklin: Autobiog. Wks. 1840 I. 61 :: She would abate
                me two shillings a week for the future.

         - c. absol. To make an abatement.

           - 1530 Palsgr. 420 :: I alowe or abate upon a reckenyng or
                accompte made.
           - 1745 De Foe: Eng. Tradesm. I. xix. 179 :: He cannot abate
                without underselling the market, or underrating the value
                of his goods.
           - 1817 Jas. Mill: Brit. India II. IV. iv. 134 :: Lacey offered
                to abate in his pecuniary demand.

       - 16. fig. To omit, leave out of count; to bar or except.

         - 1588 Shakespeare:: L. L. L. v. ii. 547 :: Abate [a] throw at
              Novum, and the whole world againe, Cannot pricke out five
              such.
         - 1700 Law: Council of Trade 253 (1751) :: Abating accidents
              which happen but seldom.
         - 1772 Johnson in Boswell (1816) II. 149 :: Abating his
              brutality, he was a very good master.
         - 1865 Sala: Diary in America I. 307 :: Abating the gold and
              silver plate.

       - 17. To abate of (a thing): to deduct something from, make an
         abatement from; to lower, or lessen in amount.  arch.

         - 1644 Bulwer: Chirologia 144 :: It falls short and abates of the
              perfection of the thing.
         - 1645 Bp. Hall: Remedy of Discontent. 27 :: Their fading
              condition justly abates of their value.
         - 1653 Izaak Walton: Compl. Angler 2 :: [I shall] either abate of
              my pace, or mend it, to enjoy such a companion.
         - 1765 Tucker Lt. of Nat. II. 635 :: Their own experience and the
           world they converse with will abate of this excess.
         - 1810 Scott: Lady of Lake V. iii. 22 :: The guide abating of his
              pace Led slowly through the pass’s jaws.

     - V. Technical.

       - † 18. Falconry. To beat with the wings, flutter.  More commonly
         aphetized to BATE.  Obs.

         - c 1430 Bk. of Hawkyng in Ret. Antiq. I. 297 :: If that she [the
              hawk] abate, let her flee, but be war that thou constreyne
              her not to flee.
         - 1575 Turberville: Booke of Falc. 135 :: You shall keepe
              hir alwayes in best plighte and leaste daunger to abate.

       - † 19. In Horsemanship. ‘A Horse is said to Abate, when working
         upon Curvets, he puts his two hind Legs to the Ground, both at
         once, and observes the same Exactness at all Times.’ Bailey 1721;
         whence in J. and subseq. Dicts.  Obs.


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I'm hoping for something that works the way heading navigation works
with speed keys, since n, p, and u in that context are burned into my
synapses: ctrl-a out to the heading markup then n, p, or u, as needed to
go to the same relative place among the markup in the target line.

Perhaps endlessparentheses' context-aware method could be adapted to use
org-list.el's various org-at-x-p and org-in-x-p functions.  I just need
to find a block of time to think clearly :-/

Cheers -

bw
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com
"No ma'am, we're musicians."

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Karl Voit]

* Bill White <billw@wolfram.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you all for the suggestions thus far.  I'll attach the org file
> I'm working with:

Being curious on your motivation: why do you use only plain list items
instead of headings with paragraphs or headings with plain lists?

-- 
mail|git|SVN|photos|postings|SMS|phonecalls|RSS|CSV|XML to Org-mode:
       > get Memacs from https://github.com/novoid/Memacs <

https://github.com/novoid/extract_pdf_annotations_to_orgmode + more on github

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Bill White]

On Tue May 10 2016 at 03:21, Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> wrote:

> * Bill White <billw@wolfram.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you all for the suggestions thus far.  I'll attach the org file
>> I'm working with:
>
> Being curious on your motivation: why do you use only plain list items
> instead of headings with paragraphs or headings with plain lists?

Mainly because I'm still playing around with possible formats.  Some
manual correction of the ocr text is required for each entry, which
provides a frictionless opportunity to add a little bit of list markup
and then get on with the next entry.

My final goal is a simple electronic version of the old Oxford English
Dictionary as outlined by Corey Doctorow
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/23/oxford-english-dictionary-future-digitally
based on files at the Internet Archive - volume 1 is at
https://archive.org/details/oed01arch

I'd like the thing to be as close to plaintext as possible with a
minimum of markup:
 - org list notation is minimal
 - it's useful within orgmode
 - it doesn't get in the user's way in non-emacs ecosystems
 - it avoids the endless quagmire of adding significant markup to such a
   huge body of text
 - it's a necessary first step for some other brave soul who wants to
   add markup & organization

But I'm open to suggestions & discussion - now's the time to play around
with formats to find the right balance between playing with words and
slogging through markup.  Perhaps this isn't the right mailing list for
that discussion, though.

Cheers -

bw
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com
"No ma'am, we're musicians."

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Grant Rettke]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Bill White <billw@wolfram.com> wrote:
> But I'm open to suggestions & discussion - now's the time to play around
> with formats to find the right balance between playing with words and
> slogging through markup.  Perhaps this isn't the right mailing list for
> that discussion, though.

If it isn't then please post the name of that list when you find it.

I started out using only lists too because they are exactly as you
describe them.

Eventually I wanted to attach metadata to the lists, and now I love headings.

The case for Org-Mode only as a markup alone isn't very interesting
because it is competing against everything from SGML to ASCIIDoc. When
you throw in the community and infrastructure of tools and literature
then Org-Mode wins. It takes some time for it all to sink in though.

My gut reaction to learning Org-Mode (all aspects listed above) was
recalling this quote from Eric Weisstein:

"Created, developed, and nurtured by Eric Weisstein at Wolfram
Research" [http://mathworld.wolfram.com/]

Org-Mode makes it easy to do that with whatever document you are nurturing.

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Karl Voit]

* Grant Rettke <gcr@wisdomandwonder.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Bill White <billw@wolfram.com> wrote:
>> But I'm open to suggestions & discussion - now's the time to play around
>> with formats to find the right balance between playing with words and
>> slogging through markup.  Perhaps this isn't the right mailing list for
>> that discussion, though.
>
> Eventually I wanted to attach metadata to the lists, and now I love headings.

This is exactly my point: you can't add any meta-data to list items.

However, you've got plenty of possibilities to enrich headings with
suitable meta-data: tags, multiple/own drawers, standardized
properties.

-- 
mail|git|SVN|photos|postings|SMS|phonecalls|RSS|CSV|XML to Org-mode:
       > get Memacs from https://github.com/novoid/Memacs <

https://github.com/novoid/extract_pdf_annotations_to_orgmode + more on github

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Bill White]

On Mon May 16 2016 at 13:17, Grant Rettke <gcr@wisdomandwonder.com> wrote:

> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Bill White <billw@wolfram.com> wrote:
>> But I'm open to suggestions & discussion - now's the time to play around
>> with formats to find the right balance between playing with words and
>> slogging through markup.  Perhaps this isn't the right mailing list for
>> that discussion, though.
>
> If it isn't then please post the name of that list when you find it.

I'm happy to post here, especially since I can't see moving this project
out of orgmode.

> I started out using only lists too because they are exactly as you
> describe them.
>
> Eventually I wanted to attach metadata to the lists, and now I love
> headings.

Could you post an example?

Here's a sample of my second iteration.  A poor man's database - still
pure orgmode and still plain text, but easily parsable:

 - main word|subordinate word, subdivided into grammatical relations A, B, C, &c.
   - identification
     - main form :: Abbacy
     - obsolete † :: no
     - non-naturalized ‖ :: no
     - pronunciation :: æ•băsi
     - part of speech :: substantive
     - specification :: none
     - status :: default
     - spellings :: 5-6 abbasy, 6-7 abbacie
     - inflections :: none
   - [morphology]
     - derivation (etymology) :: A modification of the earlier
          ABBATIE, assimilated to forms like prelacy, mediaeval Latin
          -acia, -atia.
     - subsequent form-history :: 
     - miscellaneous facts :: 
   - TODO: significations & illustrative quotations

> "Created, developed, and nurtured by Eric Weisstein at Wolfram
> Research" [http://mathworld.wolfram.com/]
>
> Org-Mode makes it easy to do that with whatever document you are
> nurturing.

That describes most of my uses of orgmode - thanks!

bw
--
http://members.wolfram.com/billw

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Karl Voit]

* Bill White <billw@wolfram.com> wrote:
>
> Here's a sample of my second iteration.  A poor man's database - still
> pure orgmode and still plain text, but easily parsable:
>
>  - main word|subordinate word, subdivided into grammatical relations A, B, C, &c.
>    - identification
>      - main form :: Abbacy
>      - obsolete † :: no
>      - non-naturalized ‖ :: no
>      - pronunciation :: æ•băsi
>      - part of speech :: substantive
>      - specification :: none
>      - status :: default
>      - spellings :: 5-6 abbasy, 6-7 abbacie
>      - inflections :: none
>    - [morphology]
>      - derivation (etymology) :: A modification of the earlier
>           ABBATIE, assimilated to forms like prelacy, mediaeval Latin
>           -acia, -atia.
>      - subsequent form-history :: 
>      - miscellaneous facts :: 
>    - TODO: significations & illustrative quotations

I am certainly not thinking of all of your use-cases. However, here
is a possible alternative «solution» with headings. Just being
curious: What disadvantages do you see here compared to lists?

*** main word|subordinate word, subdivided into grammatical relations A, B, C, &c.
:PROPERTIES:  ## or: :identification:-drawer
:mainform: Abbacy
:obsolete: no
:nonnaturalized: no
:pronunciation: æ•basi
:partofspeech: substantive
:specification: none
:status: default
:spellings: 5-6 abbasy, 6-7 abbacie
:...OR...:
:spelling: 5-6 abbasy
:spelling: 6-7 abbacie
:inflections: none
:END:

#+COMMENT: Previous list as properties does have multiple advantages
#+COMMENT: such as column view (+ corresponding edit functionality)

#+COMMENT: Following lines seem to contain potential multi-line
#+COMMENT: text which does not qualify to be handled well in properties:

- [morphology]
  - derivation (etymology) :: A modification of the earlier
       ABBATIE, assimilated to forms like prelacy, mediaeval Latin
       -acia, -atia.
  - subsequent form-history ::
  - miscellaneous facts ::

**** TODO: significations & illustrative quotations

#+COMMENT: I personally prefer todos that can possible get SCHEDULED
#+COMMENT: and/or DEADLINE dates to be headings.

-- 
mail|git|SVN|photos|postings|SMS|phonecalls|RSS|CSV|XML to Org-mode:
       > get Memacs from https://github.com/novoid/Memacs <

https://github.com/novoid/extract_pdf_annotations_to_orgmode + more on github

Re: speed keys for plain lists?

[Grant Rettke]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 10:54 AM, Bill White <billw@wolfram.com> wrote:
> Could you post an example?

Sure. I wanted to refer to my heading by UID rather than name since I
wasn't sure of the final format:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/grettke/help/master/help.org

Karl provided a format for your example using properties. I would
approach it the same way.

The folks that use Org-Mode to maintain bibliographies and BBDB
databases might have some feedback for you here, too.