Broken org-mode "Column width and alignment" in latest version

Broken org-mode "Column width and alignment" in latest version

[Ruy Exel]

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The "Column width and alignment" feature of org-mode (
http://orgmode.org/manual/Column-width-and-alignment.html) is not working
in the latest GIT version (as of Fri Dec 8 20:06:59 BRST 2017).

I have just tested it in the table

  |---+------------------------------|
  |   | <6>                          |
  | 1 | one                          |
  | 2 | two                          |
  | 3 | This is a long chunk of text |
  | 4 | four                         |
  |---+------------------------------|

which is actually the example given in the manual.  It fails under the
latest version (column width is unchanged upon alignment) but it works OK
in an older version (Org version 7.9.3f - GNU Emacs 24.3).

Regards,
Ruy

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Re: Broken org-mode "Column width and alignment" in latest version

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 5:21 PM Ruy Exel <ruyexel@gmail.com> wrote:

> The "Column width and alignment" feature of org-mode (
> http://orgmode.org/manual/Column-width-and-alignment.html) is not working
> in the latest GIT version (as of Fri Dec 8 20:06:59 BRST 2017).
>
> I have just tested it in the table
>
>   |---+------------------------------|
>   |   | <6>                          |
>   | 1 | one                          |
>   | 2 | two                          |
>   | 3 | This is a long chunk of text |
>   | 4 | four                         |
>   |---+------------------------------|
>
> which is actually the example given in the manual.  It fails under the
> latest version (column width is unchanged upon alignment)
>

I am assuming you are using the master/development version of Org from git?
If so, see this in ORG-NEWS:

*** =align= STARTUP value no longer narrow table columns

Columns narrowing (or shrinking) is now dynamic. See [[*Dynamically
narrow table columns]] for details. In particular, it is decoupled from
aligning.

If you need to automatically shrink columns upon opening an Org
document, use =shrink= value instead, or in addition to align:

#+BEGIN_EXAMPLE
,#+STARTUP: align shrink
#+END_EXAMPLE




> but it works OK in an older version (Org version 7.9.3f - GNU Emacs 24.3).
>

Wow! That's a very old version!

As you are making this big version upgrade, it would be worthwhile to go
through the whole of
http://orgmode.org/cgit.cgi/org-mode.git/tree/etc/ORG-NEWS and make a note
of new features and few breaking changes since that version.
-- 

Kaushal Modi

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Re: Broken org-mode "Column width and alignment" in latest version

[Kaushal Modi]

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Hello Ruy,

First of all, thanks for confirming that this worked for you.

Secondly, no question is a newbie question :) This mailing list is one of
the friendliest mailing lists I've participated in. So don't worry about
upsetting someone, or getting offended. So I am continuing this thread on
the mailing list.

Feel free to ask any kind of Org question you might have, and there are
many folks here to help you out.

Further comments are inline below.

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017, 5:56 PM Ruy Exel <ruyexel@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE
> > ,#+STARTUP: align shrink
> > #+END_EXAMPLE
>
> Got it!  Thanks very much.
>

You're welcome.

I am in fact a brand new user of org-mode and 7.9.3f is just the version
> which was dormant in my computer before I updated to the GIT version.
> Sometimes I use it for comparison.
>

If you are a brand new user, it's my personal opinion that that stick to
the stable release. You get that by cloning the maint branch instead, or
getting org or org-plus-contrib via Org Elpa.

The master branch isn't unstable, it's perfectly fine as a daily driver,
but some features could be in flux, which could get confusing if you just
started using Org.

However I noticed that the online manual at (http://orgmode.org/manual/
> Column-width-and-alignment.html) is more compatible with that old version
> than the GIT version.
>

The online version is synced with the stable releases of Org, which I
mentioned above. It's not in sync with the version you think (7.9.3f), but
with the latest stable release 9.1.4 (as of today).

It just happens that the column shrink feature was recently (few months)
added to the Org master branch. So you don't see its reference in the
online manual. That feature will go out in the next major release of the
stable version.. 9.2.

Of course I do not expect to have a fully working manual for a changing
> system such as the GIT version,
>

You're in for a treat here :). This is Emacs, and in my experience the best
way to access the Info manuals.  The Info manuals that get built along with
Org are always in sync with the respective versions.

So,

Org master > Manuals: Info (synced with Org master)

Org maint > Manuals: Info, online (synced with Org maint)

If you haven't used Info manuals, do C-h i h to learn how to use those from
within Emacs. They are vastly better searchable than the online version.
And you always access the correct version of the Org Info manual from
within Emacs.

but in case the above manual is superseded by some other one, I'd like to
> know where it is.
>

As above, if using master branch Org, you get the correct version of the
manual from within Emacs.

PS:  I figure this newbie message is not relevant to the folks at
> emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, so I'am not CCing it there anymore.
>

As I said in the beginning of the email, don't worry. We are all here to
learn and share.

> --

Kaushal Modi

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Re: Broken org-mode "Column width and alignment" in latest version

[Ruy Exel]

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Dear Kaushal,

The real treat is to read your nice message and to be a member of such a
fantastic group of people!

Following your advice to stick to a stable release I searched for info on
how to install it and I found instructions in
http://orgmode.org/org.html#Installation telling me to run "M-x
package-install RET org RET" from within emacs.  I did it and it all looked
like everything was running smoothly untill I was issued the messages:

WARNING: No org-loaddefs.el file could be found from where org.el is
loaded.  You need to run "make" or "make autoloads" from Org lisp directory

I am used to this since I first tried the cloned git version, but I noticed
that there is no Makefile in the directory containing the newly dowloaded
files (~/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/), so I got stuck.

I noticed that in the above installation instructions it is mentioned that:

Important: you need to do this in a session where no .org file has been
visited, i.e., where no Org built-in function have been loaded. Otherwise
autoload Org functions will mess up the installation.

so I repeated the process right after starting emacs with the
--no-init-files option, then I added the line "(package-initialize)" to my
initialization file but it still does not work, namely the old org-mode is
loaded upon starting emacs.  It is curious that I now have two org-mode
entries in the top Emacs-Info node, one for the old version (7.9.3f) and
another one for the new one (9.1.2 (release_9.1.2-37-g3f8d67)).

Could I have premanently messed up my emacs installation by not following
the above Important advice?

Regards,
Ruy Exel

On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 12:50 AM, Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello Ruy,
>
> First of all, thanks for confirming that this worked for you.
>
> Secondly, no question is a newbie question :) This mailing list is one of
> the friendliest mailing lists I've participated in. So don't worry about
> upsetting someone, or getting offended. So I am continuing this thread on
> the mailing list.
>
> Feel free to ask any kind of Org question you might have, and there are
> many folks here to help you out.
>
> Further comments are inline below.
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017, 5:56 PM Ruy Exel <ruyexel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> > #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE
>> > ,#+STARTUP: align shrink
>> > #+END_EXAMPLE
>>
>> Got it!  Thanks very much.
>>
>
> You're welcome.
>
> I am in fact a brand new user of org-mode and 7.9.3f is just the version
>> which was dormant in my computer before I updated to the GIT version.
>> Sometimes I use it for comparison.
>>
>
> If you are a brand new user, it's my personal opinion that that stick to
> the stable release. You get that by cloning the maint branch instead, or
> getting org or org-plus-contrib via Org Elpa.
>
> The master branch isn't unstable, it's perfectly fine as a daily driver,
> but some features could be in flux, which could get confusing if you just
> started using Org.
>
> However I noticed that the online manual at (http://orgmode.org/manual/Col
>> umn-width-and-alignment.html) is more compatible with that old version
>> than the GIT version.
>>
>
> The online version is synced with the stable releases of Org, which I
> mentioned above. It's not in sync with the version you think (7.9.3f), but
> with the latest stable release 9.1.4 (as of today).
>
> It just happens that the column shrink feature was recently (few months)
> added to the Org master branch. So you don't see its reference in the
> online manual. That feature will go out in the next major release of the
> stable version.. 9.2.
>
> Of course I do not expect to have a fully working manual for a changing
>> system such as the GIT version,
>>
>
> You're in for a treat here :). This is Emacs, and in my experience the
> best way to access the Info manuals.  The Info manuals that get built along
> with Org are always in sync with the respective versions.
>
> So,
>
> Org master > Manuals: Info (synced with Org master)
>
> Org maint > Manuals: Info, online (synced with Org maint)
>
> If you haven't used Info manuals, do C-h i h to learn how to use those
> from within Emacs. They are vastly better searchable than the online
> version. And you always access the correct version of the Org Info manual
> from within Emacs.
>
> but in case the above manual is superseded by some other one, I'd like to
>> know where it is.
>>
>
> As above, if using master branch Org, you get the correct version of the
> manual from within Emacs.
>
> PS:  I figure this newbie message is not relevant to the folks at
>> emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, so I'am not CCing it there anymore.
>>
>
> As I said in the beginning of the email, don't worry. We are all here to
> learn and share.
>
>> --
>
> Kaushal Modi
>

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Re: Broken org-mode "Column width and alignment" in latest version

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 1:11 PM Ruy Exel <ruyexel@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Kaushal,
>
> The real treat is to read your nice message and to be a member of such a
> fantastic group of people!
>
> Following your advice to stick to a stable release I searched for info on
> how to install it and I found instructions in
> http://orgmode.org/org.html#Installation telling me to run "M-x
> package-install RET org RET" from within emacs.  I did it and it all looked
> like everything was running smoothly untill I was issued the messages:
>
> WARNING: No org-loaddefs.el file could be found from where org.el is
> loaded.  You need to run "make" or "make autoloads" from Org lisp directory
>

Did you add Org Elpa to package archives as described here:
http://orgmode.org/elpa.html ?

I am used to this since I first tried the cloned git version, but I noticed
> that there is no Makefile in the directory containing the newly dowloaded
> files (~/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/), so I got stuck.
>

I haven't installed Org from within Emacs for quite some time now as I
build it using make from its git clone. Also I haven't seen the warning
that you see. Hopefully someone else can comment on that part.

I noticed though that the Org version you quoted:
~/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ is a bit old (not too old, but not the latest
served on Elpa either). If you add the Org Elpa to package-archive as I
suggested above, and install using the M-x package-list-packages interface,
the archives will first get auto-refreshed, and then you can be rest
assured that the installed packages are the latest versions.


> I noticed that in the above installation instructions it is mentioned that:
>
> Important: you need to do this in a session where no .org file has been
> visited, i.e., where no Org built-in function have been loaded. Otherwise
> autoload Org functions will mess up the installation.
>
> so I repeated the process right after starting emacs with the
> --no-init-files option, then I added the line "(package-initialize)" to my
> initialization file but it still does not work,
>

What doesn't work? You shouldn't need to do --no-init-files. Simply make
sure that your config is not doing (require 'org) directly or indirectly
somewhere and you are not opening an Org file at emacs startup. That's all.


> namely the old org-mode is loaded upon starting emacs.
>

How are you telling that? If you do M-: (featurep 'org) and it returns nil,
it means that org is not yet loaded.


>   It is curious that I now have two org-mode entries in the top Emacs-Info
> node, one for the old version (7.9.3f) and another one for the new one
> (9.1.2 (release_9.1.2-37-g3f8d67)).
>

That's a different thing, has to do with the Info-directory-list variable,
and is fine. You can have paths to Info manuals from multiple Org versions
added to that var, and so you will see multiple Org manuals. I personally
don't like that and so I surgically remove[1] all the Org versions that I
am not using in the current emacs session from load-path and
Info-directory-list.

Could I have premanently messed up my emacs installation by not following
> the above Important advice?
>

Not trying to sound philosophical, but nothing is permanent. All the
package installations happen in the elpa dir.. so to start the Org
installation from scratch, you can rm -rf all the org installations from
the elpa/ dir and restart emacs following that "Important" instruction and
retry installing Org.

[1]: https://scripter.co/building-org-development-version/
-- 

Kaushal Modi

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Re: Broken org-mode "Column width and alignment" in latest version

[Ruy Exel]

Dear Kaushal,

It took me a while to digest everything in your message, but I have
finally managed to do my home-work and everything is now working
perfectly!  Thanks very much!

Yours,
Ruy

On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 6:53 PM, Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 1:11 PM Ruy Exel <ruyexel@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Kaushal,
>>
>> The real treat is to read your nice message and to be a member of such a
>> fantastic group of people!
>>
>> Following your advice to stick to a stable release I searched for info on
>> how to install it and I found instructions in
>> http://orgmode.org/org.html#Installation telling me to run "M-x
>> package-install RET org RET" from within emacs.  I did it and it all looked
>> like everything was running smoothly untill I was issued the messages:
>>
>> WARNING: No org-loaddefs.el file could be found from where org.el is
>> loaded.  You need to run "make" or "make autoloads" from Org lisp directory
>
>
> Did you add Org Elpa to package archives as described here:
> http://orgmode.org/elpa.html ?
>
>> I am used to this since I first tried the cloned git version, but I
>> noticed that there is no Makefile in the directory containing the newly
>> dowloaded files (~/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/), so I got stuck.
>
>
> I haven't installed Org from within Emacs for quite some time now as I build
> it using make from its git clone. Also I haven't seen the warning that you
> see. Hopefully someone else can comment on that part.
>
> I noticed though that the Org version you quoted:
> ~/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ is a bit old (not too old, but not the latest
> served on Elpa either). If you add the Org Elpa to package-archive as I
> suggested above, and install using the M-x package-list-packages interface,
> the archives will first get auto-refreshed, and then you can be rest assured
> that the installed packages are the latest versions.
>
>>
>> I noticed that in the above installation instructions it is mentioned
>> that:
>>
>> Important: you need to do this in a session where no .org file has been
>> visited, i.e., where no Org built-in function have been loaded. Otherwise
>> autoload Org functions will mess up the installation.
>>
>> so I repeated the process right after starting emacs with the
>> --no-init-files option, then I added the line "(package-initialize)" to my
>> initialization file but it still does not work,
>
>
> What doesn't work? You shouldn't need to do --no-init-files. Simply make
> sure that your config is not doing (require 'org) directly or indirectly
> somewhere and you are not opening an Org file at emacs startup. That's all.
>
>>
>> namely the old org-mode is loaded upon starting emacs.
>
>
> How are you telling that? If you do M-: (featurep 'org) and it returns nil,
> it means that org is not yet loaded.
>
>>
>>   It is curious that I now have two org-mode entries in the top Emacs-Info
>> node, one for the old version (7.9.3f) and another one for the new one
>> (9.1.2 (release_9.1.2-37-g3f8d67)).
>
>
> That's a different thing, has to do with the Info-directory-list variable,
> and is fine. You can have paths to Info manuals from multiple Org versions
> added to that var, and so you will see multiple Org manuals. I personally
> don't like that and so I surgically remove[1] all the Org versions that I am
> not using in the current emacs session from load-path and
> Info-directory-list.
>
>> Could I have premanently messed up my emacs installation by not following
>> the above Important advice?
>
>
> Not trying to sound philosophical, but nothing is permanent. All the package
> installations happen in the elpa dir.. so to start the Org installation from
> scratch, you can rm -rf all the org installations from the elpa/ dir and
> restart emacs following that "Important" instruction and retry installing
> Org.
>
> [1]: https://scripter.co/building-org-development-version/
> --
>
> Kaushal Modi

Re: Broken org-mode "Column width and alignment" in latest version

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:57 AM Ruy Exel <ruyexel@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Kaushal,
>
> It took me a while to digest everything in your message, but I have
> finally managed to do my home-work and everything is now working
> perfectly!  Thanks very much!
>

Great! You are welcome.
-- 

Kaushal Modi

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