Karl Berry: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

Karl Berry: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

[Nick Dokos]

FYI: Karl Berry's reply - afaict, it does not solve everything ( the
regexp might mean different things in different locales), but is it
good enough for its limited purpose (detecting drive letters)?

Nick

------- Forwarded Message

Date:    Fri, 08 Oct 2010 18:38:00 +0000
From:    karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry)
To:      nicholas.dokos@hp.com
cc:      bug-texinfo@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

         texi2dvi: locale-dependent error in egrep [A-z]

    (see http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-texinfo/2010-03/msg00031.html
    and following).

    Has anything come of that? 

Yes, I already changed it at that time to [A-Za-z].

However, of course that was in the development sources, so people using
the latest (= old) release aren't going to be helped.

texi2dvi is a standalone script so people with problems could
conceivably download it and use it themselves.  Not that I'd especially
recommend that as a widespread practice, of course.

I don't know when the next full release will be.

karl


------- End of Forwarded Message

Re: Karl Berry: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

[suvayu ali]

Hi everyone,

On 8 October 2010 11:51, Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:
> FYI: Karl Berry's reply - afaict, it does not solve everything ( the
> regexp might mean different things in different locales), but is it
> good enough for its limited purpose (detecting drive letters)?
>

I have filed a bug report on the Fedora bugzilla[1] pointing to all
the relevant discussions about this issue. Feel free to add to/edit
it. Thanks everyone for narrowing this down. :)

> Nick
>

[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=641534

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

Re: Karl Berry: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

[Eric S Fraga]

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On Fri, 8 Oct 2010 21:06:24 -0700, suvayu ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

> I have filed a bug report on the Fedora bugzilla[1] pointing to all
> the relevant discussions about this issue. Feel free to add to/edit
> it. Thanks everyone for narrowing this down. :)

And this bug has already been reported (twice) to Debian, as it turns
out:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=584191
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=586134

No resolution in either bug stream although suggestions do include
[A-Za-z] and [[:alpha:]].

I have simply edited /usr/bin/texi2dvi (but need to do this on all of
my other systems) and hope that next time it is upgraded the bug will
have been fixed...

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-- 
Eric S Fraga
GnuPG: 8F5C 279D 3907 E14A 5C29  570D C891 93D8 FFFC F67D

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Re: Karl Berry: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 9, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Eric S Fraga wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Oct 2010 21:06:24 -0700, suvayu ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I have filed a bug report on the Fedora bugzilla[1] pointing to all
>> the relevant discussions about this issue. Feel free to add to/edit
>> it. Thanks everyone for narrowing this down. :)
>
> And this bug has already been reported (twice) to Debian, as it turns
> out:
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=584191
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=586134
>
> No resolution in either bug stream although suggestions do include
> [A-Za-z] and [[:alpha:]].
>
> I have simply edited /usr/bin/texi2dvi (but need to do this on all of
> my other systems) and hope that next time it is upgraded the bug will
> have been fixed...

Hi everyone,

I am looking for a way out which will allow pdf compilation of Org
work out of the box, and still allow texi2dvi to be used where possible.

I have so far come up with two possible work-arounds and would
like to hear if one of them makes sense:

1.  I could set the environment variable LC_ALL
    for the duration of the texi2dvi command to some value
    like C?  That should fix the egrep call, but could
    it have adverse effects on the pdflatex and bibtex runs or
    any other stuff used in texi2dvi?

2. On startup, I could use

   (if (= 0 (shell-command "echo foo | egrep \"[A-z]\""))
            ....


   to check if there is a problem and in this case go for
   manual pdflatex runs rather than using texi2dvi.  THis might work,
   but it would be a bit unpredictable what ends up being used,
   and with no setup in Org you could get different sets of commands
   on different machines.

Any ather ideas?  Comments?

Thanks.

- Carsten





- Carsten

> -- 
> Eric S Fraga
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Re: Karl Berry: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

[Matthew Leifer]

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Oh dear.  As the person who originally suggested using texi2dvi, I feel a
little bit responsible for all the trouble it has caused.  I wouldn't have
thought that such a widely used script would have a bug like this.

Anyway, one option would be to include a patched version of texi2dvi in the
org distribution, at least until the bug has been fixed in the official
version.  It is just a shell script, and not a huge file, so it wouldn't be
too bad.  Another option would be to simply inspect the contents of texi2dvi
and write equivalent code in Emacs Lisp, since the original idea was just to
improve the routines in org-mode that run pdflatex and bibtex.  Much of the
code in texi2dvi is to do with texinfo files and is irrelevant to how it is
being used in org-mode so this might not be as hard as it looks.

Finally, there are various LaTeX Makefiles available that attempt to build a
LaTeX document with a single invocation, much like texi2dvi.  They are
generally a bit less sophisticated than texi2dvi and I don't think that it
would be a good idea to use them directly because requiring make might be
problematic on Windows.  In any case, they might provide some helpful hints
on how to automate LaTeX compiling.  Here are links to three that I have
tried:

http://www.acoustics.hut.fi/u/mairas/UltimateLatexMakefile/
http://code.google.com/p/latex-makefile/
http://xpt.sourceforge.net/tools/latexmake/

I've had the most success with the third one, but that is essentially just a
wrapper for texi2dvi anyway.

Matt Leifer

On 9 October 2010 16:27, Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Oct 9, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Eric S Fraga wrote:
>
>  On Fri, 8 Oct 2010 21:06:24 -0700, suvayu ali <
>> fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com <fatkasuvayu%2Blinux@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>  I have filed a bug report on the Fedora bugzilla[1] pointing to all
>>> the relevant discussions about this issue. Feel free to add to/edit
>>> it. Thanks everyone for narrowing this down. :)
>>>
>>
>> And this bug has already been reported (twice) to Debian, as it turns
>> out:
>>
>> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=584191
>> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=586134
>>
>> No resolution in either bug stream although suggestions do include
>> [A-Za-z] and [[:alpha:]].
>>
>> I have simply edited /usr/bin/texi2dvi (but need to do this on all of
>> my other systems) and hope that next time it is upgraded the bug will
>> have been fixed...
>>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am looking for a way out which will allow pdf compilation of Org
> work out of the box, and still allow texi2dvi to be used where possible.
>
> I have so far come up with two possible work-arounds and would
> like to hear if one of them makes sense:
>
> 1.  I could set the environment variable LC_ALL
>   for the duration of the texi2dvi command to some value
>   like C?  That should fix the egrep call, but could
>   it have adverse effects on the pdflatex and bibtex runs or
>   any other stuff used in texi2dvi?
>
> 2. On startup, I could use
>
>  (if (= 0 (shell-command "echo foo | egrep \"[A-z]\""))
>           ....
>
>
>  to check if there is a problem and in this case go for
>  manual pdflatex runs rather than using texi2dvi.  THis might work,
>  but it would be a bit unpredictable what ends up being used,
>  and with no setup in Org you could get different sets of commands
>  on different machines.
>
> Any ather ideas?  Comments?
>
> Thanks.
>
> - Carsten
>
>
>
>
>
> - Carsten
>
>  --
>> Eric S Fraga
>> GnuPG: 8F5C 279D 3907 E14A 5C29  570D C891 93D8 FFFC F67D
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
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Re: Karl Berry: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

[Nick Dokos]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:


> I am looking for a way out which will allow pdf compilation of Org
> work out of the box, and still allow texi2dvi to be used where possible.
> 
> I have so far come up with two possible work-arounds and would
> like to hear if one of them makes sense:
> 
> 1.  I could set the environment variable LC_ALL
>     for the duration of the texi2dvi command to some value
>     like C?  That should fix the egrep call, but could
>     it have adverse effects on the pdflatex and bibtex runs or
>     any other stuff used in texi2dvi?
> 

Yes, at least theoretically. I don't think anybody has gone down
the path of investigating these effects.

> 2. On startup, I could use
> 
>    (if (= 0 (shell-command "echo foo | egrep \"[A-z]\""))
>             ....
> 
> 
>    to check if there is a problem and in this case go for
>    manual pdflatex runs rather than using texi2dvi.  THis might work,
>    but it would be a bit unpredictable what ends up being used,
>    and with no setup in Org you could get different sets of commands
>    on different machines.
> 

The trouble with this is that you are checking on egrep which will give
you a positive for egrep versions >= 2.6.x, but the fix to texi2dvi might
have made that irrelevant. How about

     try
        texi2dvi
     except
        do Seb's thrice-repeated pdflatex (or whatever) call        

After everybody has updated to the latest texinfo, the exception code
can be taken out.

Alternatively, the texi2dvi method can be reverted: it was an idea that
was worth trying, but it has caused more harm than good at this point
- maybe it can be revisited in six months.

> Any ather ideas?  Comments?
> 

Nick

Re: Karl Berry: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

[Achim Gratz]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
> I am looking for a way out which will allow pdf compilation of Org
> work out of the box, and still allow texi2dvi to be used where possible.

All is well as long as GNU grep is not at version 2.6 or later, so maybe
check for that first.  Even for later versions it likely only breaks
when the sort order is set to sort lower case letters before upper case
ones _and_ grep produces an error code on that rather than silently
reversing the range expression as it apparently did until version 2.5.

> 1.  I could set the environment variable LC_ALL
>    for the duration of the texi2dvi command to some value
>    like C?  That should fix the egrep call, but could
>    it have adverse effects on the pdflatex and bibtex runs or
>    any other stuff used in texi2dvi?

That would most likely wreak serious havoc with path / file names that
contain UTF-8 characters if they are not just passed through.  But one
could use LC_COLLATE=C (or LC_COLLATE=POSIX) in the environment that
calls texi2dvi and that should fix it.  Maybe someone with one of the
newer grep versions could try it and report if this indeed helps.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Blofeld:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds

Re: Karl Berry: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

[Thomas S. Dye]

On Oct 9, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Nick Dokos wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I am looking for a way out which will allow pdf compilation of Org
>> work out of the box, and still allow texi2dvi to be used where  
>> possible.
>>
>> I have so far come up with two possible work-arounds and would
>> like to hear if one of them makes sense:
>>
>> 1.  I could set the environment variable LC_ALL
>>    for the duration of the texi2dvi command to some value
>>    like C?  That should fix the egrep call, but could
>>    it have adverse effects on the pdflatex and bibtex runs or
>>    any other stuff used in texi2dvi?
>>
>
> Yes, at least theoretically. I don't think anybody has gone down
> the path of investigating these effects.
>
>> 2. On startup, I could use
>>
>>   (if (= 0 (shell-command "echo foo | egrep \"[A-z]\""))
>>            ....
>>
>>
>>   to check if there is a problem and in this case go for
>>   manual pdflatex runs rather than using texi2dvi.  THis might work,
>>   but it would be a bit unpredictable what ends up being used,
>>   and with no setup in Org you could get different sets of commands
>>   on different machines.
>>
>
> The trouble with this is that you are checking on egrep which will  
> give
> you a positive for egrep versions >= 2.6.x, but the fix to texi2dvi  
> might
> have made that irrelevant. How about
>
>     try
>        texi2dvi
>     except
>        do Seb's thrice-repeated pdflatex (or whatever) call
>
> After everybody has updated to the latest texinfo, the exception code
> can be taken out.
>
> Alternatively, the texi2dvi method can be reverted: it was an idea  
> that
> was worth trying, but it has caused more harm than good at this point
> - maybe it can be revisited in six months.
>
>> Any ather ideas?  Comments?
>>
>

Perhaps org-latex-to-pdf-process should just run pdflatex twice (or  
three times) so that it most likely will work out of the box.  IIUC,  
the user can set this variable to something else.  Some ready-to-use  
alternatives on Worg might be useful.  There, the pitfalls of using  
texi2dvi could be explained and those with systems where it works  
could find a recipe and make use of it.  The use of other latex make  
files might be illustrated there as well.

All the best,
Tom

Re: Karl Berry: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 9, 2010, at 7:25 PM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:

> On Oct 9, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Nick Dokos wrote:
>
>> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I am looking for a way out which will allow pdf compilation of Org
>>> work out of the box, and still allow texi2dvi to be used where  
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> I have so far come up with two possible work-arounds and would
>>> like to hear if one of them makes sense:
>>>
>>> 1.  I could set the environment variable LC_ALL
>>>   for the duration of the texi2dvi command to some value
>>>   like C?  That should fix the egrep call, but could
>>>   it have adverse effects on the pdflatex and bibtex runs or
>>>   any other stuff used in texi2dvi?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, at least theoretically. I don't think anybody has gone down
>> the path of investigating these effects.
>>
>>> 2. On startup, I could use
>>>
>>>  (if (= 0 (shell-command "echo foo | egrep \"[A-z]\""))
>>>           ....
>>>
>>>
>>>  to check if there is a problem and in this case go for
>>>  manual pdflatex runs rather than using texi2dvi.  THis might work,
>>>  but it would be a bit unpredictable what ends up being used,
>>>  and with no setup in Org you could get different sets of commands
>>>  on different machines.
>>>
>>
>> The trouble with this is that you are checking on egrep which will  
>> give
>> you a positive for egrep versions >= 2.6.x, but the fix to texi2dvi  
>> might
>> have made that irrelevant. How about
>>
>>    try
>>       texi2dvi
>>    except
>>       do Seb's thrice-repeated pdflatex (or whatever) call
>>
>> After everybody has updated to the latest texinfo, the exception code
>> can be taken out.
>>
>> Alternatively, the texi2dvi method can be reverted: it was an idea  
>> that
>> was worth trying, but it has caused more harm than good at this point
>> - maybe it can be revisited in six months.
>>
>>> Any ather ideas?  Comments?
>>>
>>
>
> Perhaps org-latex-to-pdf-process should just run pdflatex twice (or  
> three times) so that it most likely will work out of the box.  IIUC,  
> the user can set this variable to something else.

I think this is the best idea.  I am going to set the default to 3  
runs of pdflatex and provide a customization option to use texi2dvi.
FOr now, I think the danger of this going wrong for unsuspecting users  
is worse than the advantage of using texi2dvi.

So if texi2dvi works on your system, just configure org-latex-to-pdf- 
process.  If you use the customize interface to do the customization,  
one of the options will be texi2dvi.

>  Some ready-to-use alternatives on Worg might be useful.  There, the  
> pitfalls of using texi2dvi could be explained and those with systems  
> where it works could find a recipe and make use of it.  The use of  
> other latex make files might be illustrated there as well.

Good idea.

- Carsten

Re: Karl Berry: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

[Thomas S. Dye]

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On Oct 9, 2010, at 9:05 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:

>
> On Oct 9, 2010, at 7:25 PM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
>
>> On Oct 9, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Nick Dokos wrote:
>>
>>> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I am looking for a way out which will allow pdf compilation of Org
>>>> work out of the box, and still allow texi2dvi to be used where  
>>>> possible.
>>>>
>>>> I have so far come up with two possible work-arounds and would
>>>> like to hear if one of them makes sense:
>>>>
>>>> 1.  I could set the environment variable LC_ALL
>>>>  for the duration of the texi2dvi command to some value
>>>>  like C?  That should fix the egrep call, but could
>>>>  it have adverse effects on the pdflatex and bibtex runs or
>>>>  any other stuff used in texi2dvi?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, at least theoretically. I don't think anybody has gone down
>>> the path of investigating these effects.
>>>
>>>> 2. On startup, I could use
>>>>
>>>> (if (= 0 (shell-command "echo foo | egrep \"[A-z]\""))
>>>>          ....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> to check if there is a problem and in this case go for
>>>> manual pdflatex runs rather than using texi2dvi.  THis might work,
>>>> but it would be a bit unpredictable what ends up being used,
>>>> and with no setup in Org you could get different sets of commands
>>>> on different machines.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The trouble with this is that you are checking on egrep which will  
>>> give
>>> you a positive for egrep versions >= 2.6.x, but the fix to  
>>> texi2dvi might
>>> have made that irrelevant. How about
>>>
>>>   try
>>>      texi2dvi
>>>   except
>>>      do Seb's thrice-repeated pdflatex (or whatever) call
>>>
>>> After everybody has updated to the latest texinfo, the exception  
>>> code
>>> can be taken out.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, the texi2dvi method can be reverted: it was an idea  
>>> that
>>> was worth trying, but it has caused more harm than good at this  
>>> point
>>> - maybe it can be revisited in six months.
>>>
>>>> Any ather ideas?  Comments?
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps org-latex-to-pdf-process should just run pdflatex twice (or  
>> three times) so that it most likely will work out of the box.   
>> IIUC, the user can set this variable to something else.
>
> I think this is the best idea.  I am going to set the default to 3  
> runs of pdflatex and provide a customization option to use texi2dvi.
> FOr now, I think the danger of this going wrong for unsuspecting  
> users is worse than the advantage of using texi2dvi.
>
> So if texi2dvi works on your system, just configure org-latex-to-pdf- 
> process.  If you use the customize interface to do the  
> customization, one of the options will be texi2dvi.
>
>> Some ready-to-use alternatives on Worg might be useful.  There, the  
>> pitfalls of using texi2dvi could be explained and those with  
>> systems where it works could find a recipe and make use of it.  The  
>> use of other latex make files might be illustrated there as well.
>
> Good idea.

I made a start in this direction on the LaTeX export tutorial, http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-latex-export.php#sec-8 
.  Information on other makefile setups and setups for other LaTeX  
engines, such as xelatex, could go here, as well.

All the best,
Tom

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Re: Karl Berry: Re: Nick Dokos: texi2dvi egrep regexp

[Eric S Fraga]

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On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 12:42:41 -0400, Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:
> 
> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > I am looking for a way out which will allow pdf compilation of Org
> > work out of the box, and still allow texi2dvi to be used where possible.

[...]

> Alternatively, the texi2dvi method can be reverted: it was an idea that
> was worth trying, but it has caused more harm than good at this point
> - maybe it can be revisited in six months.
> 
> > Any ather ideas?  Comments?
> > 
> 
> Nick

I would vote this way.  I like texi2dvi but maybe keep to pdflatex++
for now?  Anybody who wishes to use texi2dvi (as I would right now on
those systems where I have fixed the texi2dvi script) can easily do
so but those not aware of the problems won't be caught out.

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-- 
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GnuPG: 8F5C 279D 3907 E14A 5C29  570D C891 93D8 FFFC F67D

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