[OT] A new web browser‽

[OT] A new web browser‽

[Jeremie Juste]

For my part I use IceCat. They have made a lot of progress recently if you are hesitating.

As for key bindings the closest options to emacs I have found is firemacs:
http://www.mew.org/~kazu/proj/firemacs/en/

Best regards,

Jeremie

[OT] A new web browser‽

[Marcin Borkowski]

https://vivaldi.com/

Did anyone hear about it?  Any thoughts/experiences?  "Taking notes
while browsing" seems to be something close to org-capture, no?
Keyboard-driven might mean either vim-like or emacs-like bindings, or
(hopefully) configurable ones.  I, for one, would like to try it out,
though I do not have too high hopes.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Adam Porter]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl> writes:

> https://vivaldi.com/
> 
> Did anyone hear about it?  Any thoughts/experiences?  "Taking notes
> while browsing" seems to be something close to org-capture, no?
> Keyboard-driven might mean either vim-like or emacs-like bindings, or
> (hopefully) configurable ones.  I, for one, would like to try it out,
> though I do not have too high hopes.

It looks interesting, but it's not free software, so I have no interest
myself.  Firefox/Iceweasel has been serving me well since before it was
Firefox, and Pentadactyl has been my primary UI to it for a long time.  I
don't feel like Mozilla is taking it in a good direction anymore, but if it
ever gets too bad, there's Iceweasel, and there's Pale Moon (which has
committed to "classic" Firefox extension APIs and UI), and there are other
alternatives like Conkeror, uzbl, etc.

Even if you don't care about free software, Vivaldi is made by former Opera
devs, so how do we know they aren't just repeating a cycle?  It could go the
same direction Opera went and need to be rebooted again.  As long as it's
proprietary, that's a risk its users will always face.

My two cents.  :)

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl> writes:
>
>> https://vivaldi.com/
>> 
>> Did anyone hear about it?  Any thoughts/experiences?  "Taking notes
>> while browsing" seems to be something close to org-capture, no?
>> Keyboard-driven might mean either vim-like or emacs-like bindings, or
>> (hopefully) configurable ones.  I, for one, would like to try it out,
>> though I do not have too high hopes.
>
> It looks interesting, but it's not free software, so I have no interest
> myself.  Firefox/Iceweasel has been serving me well since before it was
> Firefox, and Pentadactyl has been my primary UI to it for a long time.  I
> don't feel like Mozilla is taking it in a good direction anymore, but if it
> ever gets too bad, there's Iceweasel, and there's Pale Moon (which has
> committed to "classic" Firefox extension APIs and UI), and there are other
> alternatives like Conkeror, uzbl, etc.
>
> Even if you don't care about free software, Vivaldi is made by former Opera
> devs, so how do we know they aren't just repeating a cycle?  It could go the
> same direction Opera went and need to be rebooted again.  As long as it's
> proprietary, that's a risk its users will always face.

I've been using Conkeror (based on Xulrunner/Firefox) for a while now,
and like it enough to stick with it. It's completely keyboard driven,
which I love. It's also not super stable, nor does it seem to be
actively maintained, which I don't love. If anyone has recommendations
for better keyboard-driven browsers, I'd love to hear them...

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Rasmus]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes:
>
>> Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl> writes:
>>
>>> https://vivaldi.com/
>>> 
>>> Did anyone hear about it?  Any thoughts/experiences?  "Taking notes
>>> while browsing" seems to be something close to org-capture, no?
>>> Keyboard-driven might mean either vim-like or emacs-like bindings, or
>>> (hopefully) configurable ones.  I, for one, would like to try it out,
>>> though I do not have too high hopes.
>>
>> It looks interesting, but it's not free software, so I have no interest
>> myself.  Firefox/Iceweasel has been serving me well since before it was
>> Firefox, and Pentadactyl has been my primary UI to it for a long time.  I
>> don't feel like Mozilla is taking it in a good direction anymore, but if it
>> ever gets too bad, there's Iceweasel, and there's Pale Moon (which has
>> committed to "classic" Firefox extension APIs and UI), and there are other
>> alternatives like Conkeror, uzbl, etc.
>>
>> Even if you don't care about free software, Vivaldi is made by former Opera
>> devs, so how do we know they aren't just repeating a cycle?  It could go the
>> same direction Opera went and need to be rebooted again.  As long as it's
>> proprietary, that's a risk its users will always face.
>
> I've been using Conkeror (based on Xulrunner/Firefox) for a while now,
> and like it enough to stick with it. It's completely keyboard driven,
> which I love. It's also not super stable, nor does it seem to be
> actively maintained, which I don't love. If anyone has recommendations
> for better keyboard-driven browsers, I'd love to hear them...

Maybe Firefox with keysnail.

-- 
Sådan en god dansk lagereddike kan man slet ikke bruge mere

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes:
>>
>>> Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl> writes:
>>>
>>>> https://vivaldi.com/
>>>> 
>>>> Did anyone hear about it?  Any thoughts/experiences?  "Taking notes
>>>> while browsing" seems to be something close to org-capture, no?
>>>> Keyboard-driven might mean either vim-like or emacs-like bindings, or
>>>> (hopefully) configurable ones.  I, for one, would like to try it out,
>>>> though I do not have too high hopes.
>>>
>>> It looks interesting, but it's not free software, so I have no interest
>>> myself.  Firefox/Iceweasel has been serving me well since before it was
>>> Firefox, and Pentadactyl has been my primary UI to it for a long time.  I
>>> don't feel like Mozilla is taking it in a good direction anymore, but if it
>>> ever gets too bad, there's Iceweasel, and there's Pale Moon (which has
>>> committed to "classic" Firefox extension APIs and UI), and there are other
>>> alternatives like Conkeror, uzbl, etc.
>>>
>>> Even if you don't care about free software, Vivaldi is made by former Opera
>>> devs, so how do we know they aren't just repeating a cycle?  It could go the
>>> same direction Opera went and need to be rebooted again.  As long as it's
>>> proprietary, that's a risk its users will always face.
>>
>> I've been using Conkeror (based on Xulrunner/Firefox) for a while now,
>> and like it enough to stick with it. It's completely keyboard driven,
>> which I love. It's also not super stable, nor does it seem to be
>> actively maintained, which I don't love. If anyone has recommendations
>> for better keyboard-driven browsers, I'd love to hear them...
>
> Maybe Firefox with keysnail.

That's a new one for me -- thanks!

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-04-09, at 02:26, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:

> Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes:
>
>> Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl> writes:
>>
>>> https://vivaldi.com/
>>> 
>>> Did anyone hear about it?  Any thoughts/experiences?  "Taking notes
>>> while browsing" seems to be something close to org-capture, no?
>>> Keyboard-driven might mean either vim-like or emacs-like bindings, or
>>> (hopefully) configurable ones.  I, for one, would like to try it out,
>>> though I do not have too high hopes.
>>
>> It looks interesting, but it's not free software, so I have no interest
>> myself.  Firefox/Iceweasel has been serving me well since before it was
>> Firefox, and Pentadactyl has been my primary UI to it for a long time.  I
>> don't feel like Mozilla is taking it in a good direction anymore, but if it
>> ever gets too bad, there's Iceweasel, and there's Pale Moon (which has
>> committed to "classic" Firefox extension APIs and UI), and there are other
>> alternatives like Conkeror, uzbl, etc.
>>
>> Even if you don't care about free software, Vivaldi is made by former Opera
>> devs, so how do we know they aren't just repeating a cycle?  It could go the
>> same direction Opera went and need to be rebooted again.  As long as it's
>> proprietary, that's a risk its users will always face.
>
> I've been using Conkeror (based on Xulrunner/Firefox) for a while now,
> and like it enough to stick with it. It's completely keyboard driven,
> which I love. It's also not super stable, nor does it seem to be
> actively maintained, which I don't love. If anyone has recommendations
> for better keyboard-driven browsers, I'd love to hear them...

eww ;-)

But seriously, I'd also like to hear them!

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Peter Davis]

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016, at 02:09 PM, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> 
> eww ;-)
> 

I never played with eww before. It looks interesting, but seriously, is
there any way to cancel a large download? My emacs is completely locked
up now downloading an image from a site.

I assume it's all customized with lisp, and you can set it to not
download images except on request.

Thanks!
-pd


-- 
  Peter Davis
  www.techcurmudgeon.com
  www.timebums.com

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Sharon Kimble]

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Michael Welle <mwe012008@gmx.net> writes:

> Hallo,
>
> Peter Davis <pfd@pfdstudio.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016, at 02:09 PM, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>> 
>>> eww ;-)
>>> 
>>
>> I never played with eww before. It looks interesting, but seriously, is
>> there any way to cancel a large download? My emacs is completely locked
>> up now downloading an image from a site.
>>
>> I assume it's all customized with lisp, and you can set it to not
>> download images except on request.
> that's what bothered me the most the last time I tested eww. It's the
> same when the website doesn't respond.
>
> I made a little selection box that pops up whenever I click on a link in
> Emacs. I can choose between ff, w3m and eww. I usually choose them in
> that order. I use w3m quite a bit and eww almost never.
>

That sounds interesting, can you share the code please?

Thanks
Sharon.
-- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
TGmeds = http://www.tgmeds.org.uk
Debian 8.4, fluxbox 1.3.7, emacs 25.0.92

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
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Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Phillip Lord]

Michael Welle <mwe012008@gmx.net> writes:

> Hallo,
>
> Peter Davis <pfd@pfdstudio.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016, at 02:09 PM, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>> 
>>> eww ;-)
>>> 
>>
>> I never played with eww before. It looks interesting, but seriously, is
>> there any way to cancel a large download? My emacs is completely locked
>> up now downloading an image from a site.
>>
>> I assume it's all customized with lisp, and you can set it to not
>> download images except on request.
> that's what bothered me the most the last time I tested eww. It's the
> same when the website doesn't respond.


Did you submit a bug report?

Phil

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Phillip Lord]

Michael Welle <mwe012008@gmx.net> writes:

>> Did you submit a bug report?
> no, I didn't. I think it's by design and more a feature request than a
> bug. And to be honest, eww is not so important to me. w3m works quite
> nice.


The bug tracker is for feature requests also!

Phil

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric S Fraga]

On Saturday,  9 Apr 2016 at 18:09, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> On 2016-04-09, at 02:26, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:

[...]

>> actively maintained, which I don't love. If anyone has recommendations
>> for better keyboard-driven browsers, I'd love to hear them...
>
> eww ;-)

I use this as my first port of call typically.  For many of the web
sites I visit, it does the job very well.

> But seriously, I'd also like to hear them!

For those that a full graphical browser with javascript etc., I use
Firefox with vimperator (http://www.vimperator.org/) which fits nicely
with my use of evil in emacs...  

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (0xFFFCF67D), Emacs 25.0.92.1, Org release_8.3.4-705-g716e33

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Saturday,  9 Apr 2016 at 18:09, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>> On 2016-04-09, at 02:26, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>> actively maintained, which I don't love. If anyone has recommendations
>>> for better keyboard-driven browsers, I'd love to hear them...
>>
>> eww ;-)
>
> I use this as my first port of call typically.  For many of the web
> sites I visit, it does the job very well.

I really should get used to using eww for basic browsing. It's silly,
but I think one of the obstacles has simply been that I haven't s

>> But seriously, I'd also like to hear them!
>
> For those that a full graphical browser with javascript etc., I use
> Firefox with vimperator (http://www.vimperator.org/) which fits nicely
> with my use of evil in emacs...  

I don't think I'm ready to learn a whole new approach to keyboard
navigation (though I've had to get used to hjkl in the i3 window
manager) so this probably isn't that likely. But the KeySnail that Rasmu
mentioned bills itself as the Emacs-inspired version of Vimperator, so
that's encouraging. I just hope it's as flexible as Conkeror...

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> On Saturday,  9 Apr 2016 at 18:09, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>> On 2016-04-09, at 02:26, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>> actively maintained, which I don't love. If anyone has recommendations
>>>> for better keyboard-driven browsers, I'd love to hear them...
>>>
>>> eww ;-)
>>
>> I use this as my first port of call typically.  For many of the web
>> sites I visit, it does the job very well.
>
> I really should get used to using eww for basic browsing. It's silly,
> but I think one of the obstacles has simply been that I haven't s

Ahem... What I meant to say is that I haven't spent the time to figure
out a quick, intuitive way to say "open *this* link in eww... now open
*this* link in my external browser", etc. That was all.

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric S Fraga]

On Sunday, 10 Apr 2016 at 02:42, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
> Ahem... What I meant to say is that I haven't spent the time to figure
> out a quick, intuitive way to say "open *this* link in eww... now open
> *this* link in my external browser", etc. That was all.

My typical use is that eww is the default for any link I run into in
emacs.  If the page visited is not appropriate, I simply hit w
(eww-copy-page-url), switch to Firefox and open the page ("o C-v RET" in
vimperator...).
-- 
: Eric S Fraga (0xFFFCF67D), Emacs 25.0.92.1, Org release_8.3.4-705-g716e33

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Sauli Heinola]

* Eric S Fraga <e.fraga-hclig2XLE9Zaa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org>:
> My typical use is that eww is the default for any link I run into in
> emacs.  If the page visited is not appropriate, I simply hit w
> (eww-copy-page-url), switch to Firefox and open the page ("o C-v RET" in
> vimperator...).

I mostly use eww's `eww-browse-with-external-browser'-command, bound to
the &-key by default.  The external browser is specified by the
`shr-external-browser'-variable.

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric S Fraga]

On Sunday, 10 Apr 2016 at 11:53, Sauli Heinola wrote:
> I mostly use eww's `eww-browse-with-external-browser'-command, bound to
> the &-key by default.  The external browser is specified by the
> `shr-external-browser'-variable.

Ah, very helpful.  Thanks.  Works well.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (0xFFFCF67D), Emacs 25.0.92.1, Org release_8.3.4-705-g716e33

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Sunday, 10 Apr 2016 at 02:42, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>> Ahem... What I meant to say is that I haven't spent the time to figure
>> out a quick, intuitive way to say "open *this* link in eww... now open
>> *this* link in my external browser", etc. That was all.
>
> My typical use is that eww is the default for any link I run into in
> emacs.  If the page visited is not appropriate, I simply hit w
> (eww-copy-page-url), switch to Firefox and open the page ("o C-v RET" in
> vimperator...).

I installed the eww-lnum package right away, as that provides the main
functionality I liked from Conkeror: hit a key, and pick a link to do
something with. Rather strangely, the KeySnail plugin for Firefox seems
to do everything *but* this, which I thought was weird since, if you're
going to control your browser through the keyboard, following links is
generally the main thing you want to do. I've only had it for a few
hours, though, so maybe I'm missing something.

In eww, I was originally looking for "open in new tab"/"open in
background tab" functionality, but it's not there. Then I discovered
that eww-lnum is supposed to provide exactly that, through various
permutations of the prefix argument to `eww-lnum-follow'. You're
supposed to get "follow in new session" with a C-u prefix, and "follow
in background" with a negative prefix. But when I used either of those
options, the links were instead opened in my (newly-installed,
newly-KeySnailed) Firefox instance.

That was unexpected, but actually welcome -- it means I have a way of
choosing whether to open links in Emacs/Eww, or Firefox. It's clearly
not the way eww-lnum is meant to work (and I'd still like to be able to
open a link in a background eww session), but that can remain another
mystery for another day.

E

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Richard Lawrence]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> I installed the eww-lnum package right away, as that provides the main
> functionality I liked from Conkeror: hit a key, and pick a link to do
> something with. Rather strangely, the KeySnail plugin for Firefox seems
> to do everything *but* this, which I thought was weird since, if you're
> going to control your browser through the keyboard, following links is
> generally the main thing you want to do. I've only had it for a few
> hours, though, so maybe I'm missing something.

IIUC, Firefox actually has this behavior out of the box: press ' (single
quote) and start typing the link text.  I was surprised and pleased to
learn about that when I first found it.  That may be why it isn't
included in KeySnail.
 
Best,
Richard

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> I installed the eww-lnum package right away, as that provides the main
>> functionality I liked from Conkeror: hit a key, and pick a link to do
>> something with. Rather strangely, the KeySnail plugin for Firefox seems
>> to do everything *but* this, which I thought was weird since, if you're
>> going to control your browser through the keyboard, following links is
>> generally the main thing you want to do. I've only had it for a few
>> hours, though, so maybe I'm missing something.
>
> IIUC, Firefox actually has this behavior out of the box: press ' (single
> quote) and start typing the link text.  I was surprised and pleased to
> learn about that when I first found it.  That may be why it isn't
> included in KeySnail.

Clearly I've been away from the "normal browser world" for too long -- I
had no idea Firefox did this...

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Adam Porter]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
 
> I had no idea Firefox did this...

...You're not the only one...

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-04-11, at 06:37, Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>  
>> I had no idea Firefox did this...
>
> ...You're not the only one...

Me too, thanks for that tip!!!

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Ramon Diaz-Uriarte]

On Mon, 11-04-2016, at 10:12, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
> On 2016-04-11, at 06:37, Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote:
>
>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>>  
>>> I had no idea Firefox did this...
>>
>> ...You're not the only one...
>
> Me too, thanks for that tip!!!

Add another one. :-)

That said, though, I am finding the behavior of KeySnail's hok's very 
flexible (follow the link, open multiple links in tabs, open link in a tab
and switch to it, open in a tab but do not switch to it, open in a new
window, copy the link, save [download] the link, etc).



>
> Best,


-- 
Ramon Diaz-Uriarte
Department of Biochemistry, Lab B-25
Facultad de Medicina
Universidad Autónoma de Madrid 
Arzobispo Morcillo, 4
28029 Madrid
Spain

Phone: +34-91-497-2412

Email: rdiaz02@gmail.com
       ramon.diaz@iib.uam.es

http://ligarto.org/rdiaz

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Ramon Diaz-Uriarte <rdiaz02@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, 11-04-2016, at 10:12, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>> On 2016-04-11, at 06:37, Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>>>  
>>>> I had no idea Firefox did this...
>>>
>>> ...You're not the only one...
>>
>> Me too, thanks for that tip!!!
>
> Add another one. :-)
>
> That said, though, I am finding the behavior of KeySnail's hok's very 
> flexible (follow the link, open multiple links in tabs, open link in a tab
> and switch to it, open in a tab but do not switch to it, open in a new
> window, copy the link, save [download] the link, etc).

Hok, the history search plugin, and the download manager plugin are all
very much inspired by Conkeror. Which I think is a great thing --
Conkeror had a wonderful design, but it never quite got the sustained
development love it needed.

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Ramon Diaz-Uriarte]

On Mon, 11-04-2016, at 13:56, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
> Ramon Diaz-Uriarte <rdiaz02@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Mon, 11-04-2016, at 10:12, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>>> On 2016-04-11, at 06:37, Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>>>>  
>>>>> I had no idea Firefox did this...
>>>>
>>>> ...You're not the only one...
>>>
>>> Me too, thanks for that tip!!!
>>
>> Add another one. :-)
>>
>> That said, though, I am finding the behavior of KeySnail's hok's very 
>> flexible (follow the link, open multiple links in tabs, open link in a tab
>> and switch to it, open in a tab but do not switch to it, open in a new
>> window, copy the link, save [download] the link, etc).
>
> Hok, the history search plugin, and the download manager plugin are all

Eric, do you mean the dlbsnail and S3.dlbsnail? Or do you mean the
"LinkDownloads"? The last one I've not been able to get to work (seems to
do nothing).

In fact, after these couple of days of usage, I have tweaked the config so
that most of my muscle memory with Conkeror does not need to be
changed. But the download thing is still not great because when I try to
save something I am eventually offered one of those dreaded pop-up
file-explorer-like windows.

In contrast, with Conkeror after typing a key (s) and the hint, in the
bottom mini-buffer like I can use common Emacs keybindings to modify
path, names, etc. 

Am I am missing something?

Best,

R.


> very much inspired by Conkeror. Which I think is a great thing --
> Conkeror had a wonderful design, but it never quite got the sustained
> development love it needed.




-- 
Ramon Diaz-Uriarte
Department of Biochemistry, Lab B-25
Facultad de Medicina
Universidad Autónoma de Madrid 
Arzobispo Morcillo, 4
28029 Madrid
Spain

Phone: +34-91-497-2412

Email: rdiaz02@gmail.com
       ramon.diaz@iib.uam.es

http://ligarto.org/rdiaz

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Ramon Diaz-Uriarte <rdiaz02@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, 11-04-2016, at 13:56, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
>> Ramon Diaz-Uriarte <rdiaz02@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Mon, 11-04-2016, at 10:12, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>>>> On 2016-04-11, at 06:37, Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>>>>>  
>>>>>> I had no idea Firefox did this...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...You're not the only one...
>>>>
>>>> Me too, thanks for that tip!!!
>>>
>>> Add another one. :-)
>>>
>>> That said, though, I am finding the behavior of KeySnail's hok's very 
>>> flexible (follow the link, open multiple links in tabs, open link in a tab
>>> and switch to it, open in a tab but do not switch to it, open in a new
>>> window, copy the link, save [download] the link, etc).
>>
>> Hok, the history search plugin, and the download manager plugin are all
>
> Eric, do you mean the dlbsnail and S3.dlbsnail? Or do you mean the
> "LinkDownloads"? The last one I've not been able to get to work (seems to
> do nothing).

I only installed the dlbsnail, and I think it works okay.

> In fact, after these couple of days of usage, I have tweaked the config so
> that most of my muscle memory with Conkeror does not need to be
> changed. But the download thing is still not great because when I try to
> save something I am eventually offered one of those dreaded pop-up
> file-explorer-like windows.
>
> In contrast, with Conkeror after typing a key (s) and the hint, in the
> bottom mini-buffer like I can use common Emacs keybindings to modify
> path, names, etc. 
>
> Am I am missing something?

Not so far as I know -- the open-file dialogue is probably the biggest
remaining annoyance for me, as well. I did like the Emacs-like
minibuffer thing that Conkeror had.

Apart from that, though, this setup is fairly Conkeror like. Just
faster, and with fewer mysterious silent crashes!

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Haider Rizvi]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Apart from that, though, this setup is fairly Conkeror like. Just
> faster, and with fewer mysterious silent crashes!

Faster!!  I guess I have to try it out. 

Regards,
-- 
Haider

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Ramon Diaz-Uriarte]

On Thu, 14-04-2016, at 09:07, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
>> (...)
>> Eric, do you mean the dlbsnail and S3.dlbsnail? Or do you mean the
>> "LinkDownloads"? The last one I've not been able to get to work (seems to
>> do nothing).
>
> I only installed the dlbsnail, and I think it works okay.

Understood, thanks.


> (...)
> Apart from that, though, this setup is fairly Conkeror like. Just
> faster, and with fewer mysterious silent crashes!

Faster? How did you do that? For me it is slower, noticeably (I estimate no
less than 3 to 4 times; from less than one second to about two or more
seconds in many simple tasks such as opening a link from a email under
emacs; yes, I am reusing a running firefox with "--new-window"). I guess I
might need to disable extensions, etc?


-- 
Ramon Diaz-Uriarte
Department of Biochemistry, Lab B-25
Facultad de Medicina
Universidad Autónoma de Madrid 
Arzobispo Morcillo, 4
28029 Madrid
Spain

Phone: +34-91-497-2412

Email: rdiaz02@gmail.com
       ramon.diaz@iib.uam.es

http://ligarto.org/rdiaz

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Adam Porter]

Ramon Diaz-Uriarte <rdiaz02@gmail.com> writes:

> Faster? How did you do that? For me it is slower, noticeably (I estimate no
> less than 3 to 4 times; from less than one second to about two or more
> seconds in many simple tasks such as opening a link from a email under
> emacs; yes, I am reusing a running firefox with "--new-window"). I guess I
> might need to disable extensions, etc?

Firefox has always seemed slow to open new windows for me too, at least
on Linux.  Seems faster on Windows.  Might have something to do with the
/usr/bin/firefox shell script, or how it calls the actual binary.

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Ramon Diaz-Uriarte]

On Fri, 15-04-2016, at 23:49, Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote:
> Ramon Diaz-Uriarte <rdiaz02@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Faster? How did you do that? For me it is slower, noticeably (I estimate no
>> less than 3 to 4 times; from less than one second to about two or more
>> seconds in many simple tasks such as opening a link from a email under
>> emacs; yes, I am reusing a running firefox with "--new-window"). I guess I
>> might need to disable extensions, etc?
>
> Firefox has always seemed slow to open new windows for me too, at least
> on Linux.  Seems faster on Windows.  Might have something to do with the
> /usr/bin/firefox shell script, or how it calls the actual binary.

OK, so not a lot of room to try and do much it seems. Thanks anyway.

-- 
Ramon Diaz-Uriarte
Department of Biochemistry, Lab B-25
Facultad de Medicina
Universidad Autónoma de Madrid 
Arzobispo Morcillo, 4
28029 Madrid
Spain

Phone: +34-91-497-2412

Email: rdiaz02@gmail.com
       ramon.diaz@iib.uam.es

http://ligarto.org/rdiaz

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Ramon Diaz-Uriarte <rdiaz02@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, 14-04-2016, at 09:07, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
>>> (...)
>>> Eric, do you mean the dlbsnail and S3.dlbsnail? Or do you mean the
>>> "LinkDownloads"? The last one I've not been able to get to work (seems to
>>> do nothing).
>>
>> I only installed the dlbsnail, and I think it works okay.
>
> Understood, thanks.
>
>
>> (...)
>> Apart from that, though, this setup is fairly Conkeror like. Just
>> faster, and with fewer mysterious silent crashes!
>
> Faster? How did you do that? For me it is slower, noticeably (I estimate no
> less than 3 to 4 times; from less than one second to about two or more
> seconds in many simple tasks such as opening a link from a email under
> emacs; yes, I am reusing a running firefox with "--new-window"). I guess I
> might need to disable extensions, etc?

I'm not the right one to ask, I'm afraid -- I have no idea! I try hard
not to use browsers at all, and don't really have any plugins installed.
Conkeror used to struggle mightily just to keep up with my typing (and
this is not a boast about my typing speed, sadly), and regularly
"stopped to think" for several seconds. I never really looked into it...

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Ramon Diaz-Uriarte]

On Sat, 16-04-2016, at 03:44, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
> Ramon Diaz-Uriarte <rdiaz02@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 14-04-2016, at 09:07, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
>>>> (...)
>>>> Eric, do you mean the dlbsnail and S3.dlbsnail? Or do you mean the
>>>> "LinkDownloads"? The last one I've not been able to get to work (seems to
>>>> do nothing).
>>>
>>> I only installed the dlbsnail, and I think it works okay.
>>
>> Understood, thanks.
>>
>>
>>> (...)
>>> Apart from that, though, this setup is fairly Conkeror like. Just
>>> faster, and with fewer mysterious silent crashes!
>>
>> Faster? How did you do that? For me it is slower, noticeably (I estimate no
>> less than 3 to 4 times; from less than one second to about two or more
>> seconds in many simple tasks such as opening a link from a email under
>> emacs; yes, I am reusing a running firefox with "--new-window"). I guess I
>> might need to disable extensions, etc?
>
> I'm not the right one to ask, I'm afraid -- I have no idea! I try hard
> not to use browsers at all, and don't really have any plugins installed.
> Conkeror used to struggle mightily just to keep up with my typing (and
> this is not a boast about my typing speed, sadly), and regularly
> "stopped to think" for several seconds. I never really looked into it...

Thanks for the clarification.



-- 
Ramon Diaz-Uriarte
Department of Biochemistry, Lab B-25
Facultad de Medicina
Universidad Autónoma de Madrid 
Arzobispo Morcillo, 4
28029 Madrid
Spain

Phone: +34-91-497-2412

Email: rdiaz02@gmail.com
       ramon.diaz@iib.uam.es

http://ligarto.org/rdiaz

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Ramon Diaz-Uriarte]

Dear Eric,

On Sun, 10-04-2016, at 15:17, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>
>
> I installed the eww-lnum package right away, as that provides the main
> functionality I liked from Conkeror: hit a key, and pick a link to do
> something with. Rather strangely, the KeySnail plugin for Firefox seems
> to do everything *but* this, which I thought was weird since, if you're
> going to control your browser through the keyboard, following links is
> generally the main thing you want to do. I've only had it for a few
> hours, though, so maybe I'm missing something.
>

I think you might want to try the "HoK" (hit a hint for KeySnail) extension,
available here

https://github.com/mooz/keysnail/wiki/plugin

In fact, it might already be available by default (I think it was in my
installation) but you might not have key bindings set up for it (you
can check if it is available by M-x: hok)


There is a comment about this extension (and the also very neat Tanything
extension) in

http://blog.binchen.org/posts/use-firefox-in-emacs-way-3.html 


I have configured HoK in my .keysnail.js so that the behavior of HoK is now
similar to what I had with conkeror (follow links in new buffers (or tabs)
or new windows, etc).


Caveat emptor: I only started playing with KeySnail a few hours ago, after
seeing Rasmus' comment this morning.

Best,

R.


-- 
Ramon Diaz-Uriarte
Department of Biochemistry, Lab B-25
Facultad de Medicina
Universidad Autónoma de Madrid 
Arzobispo Morcillo, 4
28029 Madrid
Spain

Phone: +34-91-497-2412

Email: rdiaz02@gmail.com
       ramon.diaz@iib.uam.es

http://ligarto.org/rdiaz

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Ramon Diaz-Uriarte <rdiaz02@gmail.com> writes:

> Dear Eric,
>
> On Sun, 10-04-2016, at 15:17, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
>> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>>
>>
>> I installed the eww-lnum package right away, as that provides the main
>> functionality I liked from Conkeror: hit a key, and pick a link to do
>> something with. Rather strangely, the KeySnail plugin for Firefox seems
>> to do everything *but* this, which I thought was weird since, if you're
>> going to control your browser through the keyboard, following links is
>> generally the main thing you want to do. I've only had it for a few
>> hours, though, so maybe I'm missing something.
>>
>
> I think you might want to try the "HoK" (hit a hint for KeySnail) extension,
> available here
>
> https://github.com/mooz/keysnail/wiki/plugin

That looks like just the thing, thank you! Just installed it, and am
playing around now.

E

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric S Fraga]

On Sunday, 10 Apr 2016 at 13:17, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
> I installed the eww-lnum package right away, as that provides the main

Thanks for the pointer!  Excellent addition to eww.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (0xFFFCF67D), Emacs 25.0.92.1, Org release_8.3.4-705-g716e33

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Haider Rizvi]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> I've been using Conkeror (based on Xulrunner/Firefox) for a while
> now, and like it enough to stick with it. It's completely keyboard
> driven, which I love. It's also not super stable, nor does it seem
> to be actively maintained, which I don't love. If anyone has
> recommendations for better keyboard-driven browsers, I'd love to
> hear them...

Eric, I use Conkeror as well. And worried that one day it'll go away.

I have tried out Vimium with Chrome, and liked it. You may want to try
it out if you haven't already.

Regards,
-- 
Haider

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Haider Rizvi <harizvi@gmail.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> I've been using Conkeror (based on Xulrunner/Firefox) for a while
>> now, and like it enough to stick with it. It's completely keyboard
>> driven, which I love. It's also not super stable, nor does it seem
>> to be actively maintained, which I don't love. If anyone has
>> recommendations for better keyboard-driven browsers, I'd love to
>> hear them...
>
> Eric, I use Conkeror as well. And worried that one day it'll go away.
>
> I have tried out Vimium with Chrome, and liked it. You may want to try
> it out if you haven't already.

I've already started retraining my figures for KeySnail, and tweaked the
config file! I may be nearing the point of no return. But I do
appreciate the extra suggestion, and will take a look at Vimium...

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Ramon Diaz-Uriarte]

Dear Haider,


On Tue, 12-04-2016, at 19:53, Haider Rizvi <harizvi@gmail.com> wrote:
> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> I've been using Conkeror (based on Xulrunner/Firefox) for a while
>> now, and like it enough to stick with it. It's completely keyboard
>> driven, which I love. It's also not super stable, nor does it seem
>> to be actively maintained, which I don't love. If anyone has
>> recommendations for better keyboard-driven browsers, I'd love to
>> hear them...
>
> Eric, I use Conkeror as well. And worried that one day it'll go away.
>

For me Conkeror works just great most of the time. But the main problem
(for me) is that some of the extensions of Firefox will not work with
Conkeror. In particular, the connector with Zotero standalone just cannot
work with it. And this has forced me to "use Conkeror always, except if I
need to do reference-related work" (problem being that sometimes, while
browsing, I decide "let's add this to Zotero" and then I need to start
firefox, copy the link, etc).  KeySnail so far seems to be an alternative
to avoid my schizoid behavior.

> I have tried out Vimium with Chrome, and liked it. You may want to try
> it out if you haven't already.

Thanks for the suggestion; I did not know it.

I'll have to revisit it, because I just tried it and was unable to activate
it in any page (get the icon on the bar to be colored). I must be doing
something silly. However, I looked over the documentation quickly and I
could not see how to mark stuff for downloading. Do I need more coffee?


Best,

R.


>
> Regards,


-- 
Ramon Diaz-Uriarte
Department of Biochemistry, Lab B-25
Facultad de Medicina
Universidad Autónoma de Madrid 
Arzobispo Morcillo, 4
28029 Madrid
Spain

Phone: +34-91-497-2412

Email: rdiaz02@gmail.com
       ramon.diaz@iib.uam.es

http://ligarto.org/rdiaz

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Haider Rizvi]

Ramon Diaz-Uriarte <rdiaz02@gmail.com> writes:

> For me Conkeror works just great most of the time. But the main problem
> (for me) is that some of the extensions of Firefox will not work with
> Conkeror.

Yes, well aware of the extensions issue. Since I had no solution, I
started looking at it as a blessing in disguise ;-) It makes me use
less extensions, only adblock and https-everywhere right now on
Conkeror. But then I have a lot of stuff in javascript!

> In particular, the connector with Zotero standalone just cannot
> work with it. And this has forced me to "use Conkeror always, except if I
> need to do reference-related work"

> KeySnail so far seems to be an alternative to avoid my schizoid
> behavior.

Glad keysnail is working, I may have to look at it as a backup
option.

I could never get into zotero, when I tried last. I use a combination
of Pocket, Evernote, and org files for research / notes taking.

> (problem being that sometimes, while browsing, I decide "let's add
> this to Zotero" and then I need to start firefox, copy the link,
> etc).

You probably know this, but .... you can write a function and assign a
key for this to make life a bit easier.

// **** open in Firefox ****
function open_in_firefox (url, window) {
    var cmd_str = 'open -a firefox '+url;
    if (window != null) {
        window.minibuffer.message('Issuing ' + cmd_str);
     }
    shell_command_blind(cmd_str);
}

interactive("firefox", "Send url to Firefox",
          function (I) {
              open_in_firefox(I.buffer.display_uri_string, I.window);
          });
define_key(content_buffer_normal_keymap, "f5", "firefox");



>> I have tried out Vimium with Chrome, and liked it. You may want to
>> try it out if you haven't already.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion; I did not know it.
>
> I'll have to revisit it, because I just tried it and was unable to activate
> it in any page (get the icon on the bar to be colored). I must be doing
> something silly. However, I looked over the documentation quickly and I
> could not see how to mark stuff for downloading. Do I need more coffee?
>
>
> Best,
>
> R.
>
>
>>
>> Regards,

-- 

Regards,
--
Haider Rizvi

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Ramon Diaz-Uriarte]

On Wed, 13-04-2016, at 21:44, Haider Rizvi <harizvi@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ramon Diaz-Uriarte <rdiaz02@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> For me Conkeror works just great most of the time. But the main problem
>> (for me) is that some of the extensions of Firefox will not work with
>> Conkeror.
>
> Yes, well aware of the extensions issue. Since I had no solution, I
> started looking at it as a blessing in disguise ;-) It makes me use

:-)


> less extensions, only adblock and https-everywhere right now on
> Conkeror. But then I have a lot of stuff in javascript!
>
>
> I could never get into zotero, when I tried last. I use a combination
> of Pocket, Evernote, and org files for research / notes taking.

In a sense, I am conceptually/aesthetically unhappy with how I keep some
things under Zotero (mostly anything that could potentially have a PDF
attached, like papers) but all the rest of my notes and links under org and
some things to learn under Anki. In practice, I somehow have adopted a
scheme that works well for me (i.e., I seem to know where to search for
what).

>
>> (problem being that sometimes, while browsing, I decide "let's add
>> this to Zotero" and then I need to start firefox, copy the link,
>> etc).
>
> You probably know this, but .... you can write a function and assign a
> key for this to make life a bit easier.
>
> // **** open in Firefox ****
> function open_in_firefox (url, window) {
>     var cmd_str = 'open -a firefox '+url;
>     if (window != null) {
>         window.minibuffer.message('Issuing ' + cmd_str);
>      }
>     shell_command_blind(cmd_str);
> }
>
> interactive("firefox", "Send url to Firefox",
>           function (I) {
>               open_in_firefox(I.buffer.display_uri_string, I.window);
>           });
> define_key(content_buffer_normal_keymap, "f5", "firefox");
>

Actually, I am very embarrassed to say I did not know this at all. In fact,
what is worse, it never occurred to me to try something like that. Thanks a
lot!!!!


Best,


R.

>
>
>>> I have tried out Vimium with Chrome, and liked it. You may want to
>>> try it out if you haven't already.
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestion; I did not know it.
>>
>> I'll have to revisit it, because I just tried it and was unable to activate
>> it in any page (get the icon on the bar to be colored). I must be doing
>> something silly. However, I looked over the documentation quickly and I
>> could not see how to mark stuff for downloading. Do I need more coffee?
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> R.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>
> -- 
>
> Regards,


-- 
Ramon Diaz-Uriarte
Department of Biochemistry, Lab B-25
Facultad de Medicina
Universidad Autónoma de Madrid 
Arzobispo Morcillo, 4
28029 Madrid
Spain

Phone: +34-91-497-2412

Email: rdiaz02@gmail.com
       ramon.diaz@iib.uam.es

http://ligarto.org/rdiaz

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-04-08, at 22:00, Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl> writes:
>
>> https://vivaldi.com/
>> 
>> Did anyone hear about it?  Any thoughts/experiences?  "Taking notes
>> while browsing" seems to be something close to org-capture, no?
>> Keyboard-driven might mean either vim-like or emacs-like bindings, or
>> (hopefully) configurable ones.  I, for one, would like to try it out,
>> though I do not have too high hopes.
>
> It looks interesting, but it's not free software, so I have no interest
> myself.  Firefox/Iceweasel has been serving me well since before it was
> Firefox, and Pentadactyl has been my primary UI to it for a long time.  I
> don't feel like Mozilla is taking it in a good direction anymore, but if it
> ever gets too bad, there's Iceweasel, and there's Pale Moon (which has
> committed to "classic" Firefox extension APIs and UI), and there are other
> alternatives like Conkeror, uzbl, etc.

Thanks for the info.  While I'm not a fervent supporter of free software
like many people here, I rather like the idea, and in fact it didn't
occur to me that this browser could be closed-source.  (I do understand
that "closed-source" is not the opposite of "free as in FSF", but
I wouldn't find it surprising if that software were non-free, while it
being closed-source - which apparently it is - is astonishing for me.)

> Even if you don't care about free software, Vivaldi is made by former Opera
> devs, so how do we know they aren't just repeating a cycle?  It could go the
> same direction Opera went and need to be rebooted again.  As long as it's
> proprietary, that's a risk its users will always face.

I'm not an Opera user, so please enlighten me: what was wrong with it?
(The only info about Opera I have is from one of my friends, who liked
it a lot a few years ago.)

> My two cents.  :)

Thanks for your input,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Adam Porter]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl> writes:
 
> I'm not an Opera user, so please enlighten me: what was wrong with it?
> (The only info about Opera I have is from one of my friends, who liked
> it a lot a few years ago.)

I've never really been an Opera user either, other than trying it briefly. 
From what I know, after many years of having their own engine, they dumped
it in favor of Google's Blink (forked from WebKit).  They seemed to have
sort of a "cult following" with many intensely loyal users, but then they
went a different direction.  And now it sounds like some of the original
Opera folks are doing this new browser.  But again, I've never really kept
up, so if you want to know the real story...  :)

I *can* highly recommend Pentadactyl.  It seems like the best of the
Vim-style extensions for Firefox, has been steadily and tirelessly updated
over the years to keep up with Mozilla's churn, and is very stable.  I
haven't been converted to EVIL yet, but I have always found Vim's modal
style very efficient for web browsing.

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Hauke Rehfeld]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2452 bytes --]

Opera (when they were still using their own 
engine) had a lot of quite useful UI features, and 
could open hundreds of tabs without much slowdown.

In the chrome port, they were back to basic chrome 
features, and even right now (after how many 
years?) it's not very different from using a 
differently styled chrome at all. 
Performance-wise, it's as memory hungry as chrome 
itself.

Cheers,

Hauke

On 09/04/16 08:09, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>
> On 2016-04-08, at 22:00, Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote:
>
>> Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl> writes:
>>
>>> https://vivaldi.com/
>>>
>>> Did anyone hear about it?  Any thoughts/experiences?  "Taking notes
>>> while browsing" seems to be something close to org-capture, no?
>>> Keyboard-driven might mean either vim-like or emacs-like bindings, or
>>> (hopefully) configurable ones.  I, for one, would like to try it out,
>>> though I do not have too high hopes.
>>
>> It looks interesting, but it's not free software, so I have no interest
>> myself.  Firefox/Iceweasel has been serving me well since before it was
>> Firefox, and Pentadactyl has been my primary UI to it for a long time.  I
>> don't feel like Mozilla is taking it in a good direction anymore, but if it
>> ever gets too bad, there's Iceweasel, and there's Pale Moon (which has
>> committed to "classic" Firefox extension APIs and UI), and there are other
>> alternatives like Conkeror, uzbl, etc.
>
> Thanks for the info.  While I'm not a fervent supporter of free software
> like many people here, I rather like the idea, and in fact it didn't
> occur to me that this browser could be closed-source.  (I do understand
> that "closed-source" is not the opposite of "free as in FSF", but
> I wouldn't find it surprising if that software were non-free, while it
> being closed-source - which apparently it is - is astonishing for me.)
>
>> Even if you don't care about free software, Vivaldi is made by former Opera
>> devs, so how do we know they aren't just repeating a cycle?  It could go the
>> same direction Opera went and need to be rebooted again.  As long as it's
>> proprietary, that's a risk its users will always face.
>
> I'm not an Opera user, so please enlighten me: what was wrong with it?
> (The only info about Opera I have is from one of my friends, who liked
> it a lot a few years ago.)
>
>> My two cents.  :)
>
> Thanks for your input,
>


[-- Attachment #2: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature --]
[-- Type: application/pkcs7-signature, Size: 3707 bytes --]

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Eric S Fraga]

On Friday,  8 Apr 2016 at 22:00, Adam Porter wrote:

[...]

> It looks interesting, but it's not free software, so I have no interest

Funnily enough, that's the first thing I checked.  I think I'll stick
with Firefox + vimperator for full keyboard controlled browsing.
-- 
: Eric S Fraga (0xFFFCF67D), Emacs 25.0.92.1, Org release_8.3.4-705-g716e33

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-04-08, at 21:39, Oleh Krehel <oleh@oremacs.com> wrote:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>
>> https://vivaldi.com/
>
>> Did anyone hear about it?  Any thoughts/experiences? 
>
> It's a closed-source Chromium-based browser. Just ignore that nonsense.

Well, while "nonsense" might be too much of a word, this does not sound
very good indeed.  Too bad, I hoped for something better.  (I might be
tempted to give it a try anyway, but I'm afraid it won't solve the main
problem with browsers, which is speed.)

> regards,
> Oleh

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: [OT] A new web browser‽

[Christopher Allan Webber]

Marcin Borkowski writes:

> https://vivaldi.com/
>
> Did anyone hear about it?  Any thoughts/experiences?  "Taking notes
> while browsing" seems to be something close to org-capture, no?
> Keyboard-driven might mean either vim-like or emacs-like bindings, or
> (hopefully) configurable ones.  I, for one, would like to try it out,
> though I do not have too high hopes.
>
> Best,

It looks interesting, but not interesting enough to replace
Icecat/Firefox for me.

What would be interesting enough to replace it for me: getting browser
sandboxing in place.  This is the one thing that makes Chromium more
appealing than Firefox/Icecat right now... but since all we have is
Icecat, that's what I'm using here!

 - Chris