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From: "Juan Manuel Macías" <maciaschain@posteo.net>
To: Bastien <bzg@gnu.org>
Cc: Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com>,  orgmode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [patch] Fix inner smart quotes in French
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 21:50:09 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87y1iiy3ce.fsf@posteo.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87350rgdfh.fsf@bzg.fr> (Bastien's message of "Thu, 10 Aug 2023 16:49:38 +0200")

Bastien writes:

> Yes, this is also what the French national printing press ("Imprimerie
> nationale"), which is quite authoritative in this matter, recommends.
>
> Note that the Full recommendation of the Imprimerie nationale is to
> repeat second-level quotation marks at the beginning and of each line
> when the text spans over several lines, like this:
>
>   Then X reported : « This is what Y said : « Here is
>   « a quotation with a paragraph spaning over several
>   « lines, with each line starting with a quotation mark
>   « until the end of the quotation. » 
>
> (The unique » at the end is intentional, the rule is to not repeat.)

I've been looking at the babel-french documentation (LaTeX)
(http://mirrors.ctan.org/macros/latex/contrib/babel-contrib/french/frenchb.pdf),
which claims to be based on "Lexique des règles typographiques en usage
à l’Imprimerie Nationale, troisième édition (1994)"; p. 3 is about
quotation marks and the different options:

-----
with all engines: the inner quotation is surrounded by double quotes
(“texte”) unless option InnerGuillSingle=true, then a) the inner
quotation is printed as ‹ texte › and b) if the inner quotation spreads
over more than one paragraph, every paragraph included in the inner
quotation starts with a ‹ or a › or nothing, depending on option
EveryParGuill=open (default) or =close or =none.

with LuaTeX based engines, it is possible to add a French opening or
closing guillemet (« or ») at the beginning of every line of the inner
quotation using option EveryLineGuill=open or =close; note that with any
of these options, the inner quotation is surrounded by French guillemets
(« and ») regardless option InnerGuillSingle; the default is
EveryLineGuill=none so that \frquote{} behaves as with non-LuaTeX
engines.
-----

I have tried this example with quotes per line:

https://i.imgur.com/od4HwUs.png

In any case (apart from LaTeX), it is clear that I was wrong when I said
that the inner quotes that my patch 'corrects' were 'incorrect'. What I
don't know is why babel-french defaults to the « “inner” » style. Is it
the most used currently in France? If the « « inner » » style is more
canonical, I don't mind having my patch 'fix' reverted.

-- 
Juan Manuel Macías 

https://juanmanuelmacias.com

https://lunotipia.juanmanuelmacias.com

https://gnutas.juanmanuelmacias.com



  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-08-10 21:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 18+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-08-04  7:25 [patch] Fix inner smart quotes in French Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-04 11:09 ` Bastien
2023-08-10 14:10   ` Max Nikulin
2023-08-10 14:49     ` Bastien
2023-08-10 16:01       ` Max Nikulin
2023-08-10 21:50       ` Juan Manuel Macías [this message]
2023-08-13  9:20         ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-13  9:24           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-13  9:46             ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-13 12:57               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14 16:26                 ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-15 11:23                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-22 15:11                     ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-23  9:36                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 11:36                         ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-05  7:08 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-05 10:51   ` Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-05 13:19     ` Ihor Radchenko

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