Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Emmanuel Charpentier]

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As of today, I note that the #+langiage export variable is no longer
honored when exporting to LaTeX/PDF. See enclosed files :

- #+language:fr should get me a table of contents entitled "Table des 
  matières" ;

- #+ the Latex file has "pdflang={Frenchb}}" in a \hypersetup call, 
  but nothing even remotely babel-related (i. e. nothing related to the
  LaTeX package babel, which isn't loaded...)

- the PDF file has a table of contents entitled "Contents".

HTH,

--
Emmanuel Charpentier


[-- Attachment #2: TstLanguage.org --]
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# Vérification d'un loup possible sur #+language...
#+title: Option "Language" ?
#+author: Emmanuel Charpentier
#+date: novembre 2018
#+language: fr

* Pique

Baratin...

* Et pique

Autre baratin

* Et colegram...

Troisième baratin...

# Il y a bien un loup : la table des matières est intitulée
# "Contents"...

[-- Attachment #3: TstLanguage.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 73471 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #4: TstLanguage.tex --]
[-- Type: text/x-tex, Size: 913 bytes --]

% Created 2018-11-25 dim. 16:45
% Intended LaTeX compiler: pdflatex
\documentclass[11pt]{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\usepackage{grffile}
\usepackage{longtable}
\usepackage{wrapfig}
\usepackage{rotating}
\usepackage[normalem]{ulem}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{textcomp}
\usepackage{amssymb}
\usepackage{capt-of}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\author{Emmanuel Charpentier}
\date{novembre 2018}
\title{Option "Language" ?}
\hypersetup{
 pdfauthor={Emmanuel Charpentier},
 pdftitle={Option "Language" ?},
 pdfkeywords={},
 pdfsubject={},
 pdfcreator={Emacs 25.2.2 (Org mode 9.1.14)}, 
 pdflang={Frenchb}}
\begin{document}

\maketitle
\tableofcontents


\section{Pique}
\label{sec:orgc6b6d38}

Baratin\ldots{}

\section{Et pique}
\label{sec:orgf382b87}

Autre baratin

\section{Et colegram\ldots{}}
\label{sec:org30745ef}

Troisième baratin\ldots{}
\end{document}

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Emmanuel Charpentier <emm.charpentier@free.fr> writes:

> As of today, I note that the #+langiage export variable is no longer
> honored when exporting to LaTeX/PDF. See enclosed files :
>
> - #+language:fr should get me a table of contents entitled "Table des 
>   matières" ;
>
> - #+ the Latex file has "pdflang={Frenchb}}" in a \hypersetup call, 
>   but nothing even remotely babel-related (i. e. nothing related to the
>   LaTeX package babel, which isn't loaded...)
>
> - the PDF file has a table of contents entitled "Contents".

I cannot reproduce your problem. You may try again with a minimal
configuration, or with development version, which is very stable at this
point.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Emmanuel Charpentier]

Thanks for a prompt answer ! A couple questions :

1) What do you mean by "minimal configuration" ? A stripped
.emacs/d/init.el ?

2) How can I get the "development version" ? I'm following MELPA
already...

--
Emmanuel Charpentier


Le dimanche 25 novembre 2018 à 20:03 +0100, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit :
> Hello,
> 
> Emmanuel Charpentier <emm.charpentier@free.fr> writes:
> 
> > As of today, I note that the #+langiage export variable is no
> > longer
> > honored when exporting to LaTeX/PDF. See enclosed files :
> > 
> > - #+language:fr should get me a table of contents entitled "Table
> > des 
> >   matières" ;
> > 
> > - #+ the Latex file has "pdflang={Frenchb}}" in a \hypersetup
> > call, 
> >   but nothing even remotely babel-related (i. e. nothing related to
> > the
> >   LaTeX package babel, which isn't loaded...)
> > 
> > - the PDF file has a table of contents entitled "Contents".
> 
> I cannot reproduce your problem. You may try again with a minimal
> configuration, or with development version, which is very stable at
> this
> point.
> 
> Regards,
> 

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Emmanuel Charpentier <emm.charpentier@free.fr> writes:

> Thanks for a prompt answer ! A couple questions :
>
> 1) What do you mean by "minimal configuration" ? A stripped
> .emacs/d/init.el ?

Indeed.

> 2) How can I get the "development version" ? I'm following MELPA
> already...

You have to clone the repository and load Org from there, "master"
branch, aka "Org 9.2".

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Emmanuel Charpentier]

Yet another data point:

I followed your suggestion :
  * desinstalled MELPA's org
  * cloned https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode.git
  * make autoloads
  * make
  * emacs -q
  * M-: (add-to-list 'load-path "<relevant directory>/org-mode/lisp")

C-c C-e l o still gets me the same result (i. e. a table of contents
entitled "Contents" rather than "Table des matières").

I got this result
  * using the (default) master branch
  * using the "next" branch :
    - git branch next origin/next
    - git checkout next
    - make autoloads
    - make

In both branches, make says "org-version: 9.1.14 (release_9.1.14-1124-
gfb5e3e)" at the end of compilation.

I'm stymied...

I have but one *visual* clue : whereas the fontlock gives me a gray
color for #+title, #+author and #+date (light gray for the tags, dark
blue for the title, medium grey for author and date), "#+language: fr"
remains in red, even after C-c C-c. (Approximate colors : I'm semi-
color-blind).

HTH,

--
Emmanuel Charpentier

Le dimanche 25 novembre 2018 à 23:31 +0100, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit :
> Emmanuel Charpentier <emm.charpentier@free.fr> writes:
> 
> > Thanks for a prompt answer ! A couple questions :
> > 
> > 1) What do you mean by "minimal configuration" ? A stripped
> > .emacs/d/init.el ?
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> > 2) How can I get the "development version" ? I'm following MELPA
> > already...
> 
> You have to clone the repository and load Org from there, "master"
> branch, aka "Org 9.2".

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Emmanuel Charpentier <emm.charpentier@free.fr> writes:

> I have but one *visual* clue : whereas the fontlock gives me a gray
> color for #+title, #+author and #+date (light gray for the tags, dark
> blue for the title, medium grey for author and date), "#+language: fr"
> remains in red, even after C-c C-c. (Approximate colors : I'm semi-
> color-blind).

That is to be expected. LANGUAGE does not belong to the same category as
AUTHOR, TITLE… keywords.

I don't know what could be wrong. I suggest to debug
`org-latex-guess-babel-language' in "ox-latex.el" (<C-u M-x eval-defun>
with point on the function) and see why the default header (you use the
default header, right?) is not updated.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Emmanuel Charpentier]

One more data point : I can reproduce the problem with no init file :

  * same org file
  * emacs started by "emacs -q"
  * M-x (require 'org)
  * C-x C-f <relevant path>TstLanguage.org
  * C-c C-e l p

==> Same result.

HTH,

--
Emmanuel Charpentier

Le dimanche 25 novembre 2018 à 20:03 +0100, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit :
> Hello,
> 
> Emmanuel Charpentier <emm.charpentier@free.fr> writes:
> 
> > As of today, I note that the #+langiage export variable is no
> > longer
> > honored when exporting to LaTeX/PDF. See enclosed files :
> > 
> > - #+language:fr should get me a table of contents entitled "Table
> > des 
> >   matières" ;
> > 
> > - #+ the Latex file has "pdflang={Frenchb}}" in a \hypersetup
> > call, 
> >   but nothing even remotely babel-related (i. e. nothing related to
> > the
> >   LaTeX package babel, which isn't loaded...)
> > 
> > - the PDF file has a table of contents entitled "Contents".
> 
> I cannot reproduce your problem. You may try again with a minimal
> configuration, or with development version, which is very stable at
> this
> point.
> 
> Regards,
> 

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Michael Welle]

Hello,

Emmanuel Charpentier <emm.charpentier@free.fr> writes:

> As of today, I note that the #+langiage export variable is no longer
> honored when exporting to LaTeX/PDF. See enclosed files :
I noticed this quite some time go (months, last year maybe), but didn't
dived into it because I'm not sure what to expect. ox-latex suggest that
this might be the way to go:

#+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage[AUTO]{babel}


Regards
hmw

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[emanuel.charpentier]

I forgot to add that, when exporting to plain tex or ODT, #+language*
*seems* to be honored : the table of contents is entitled "Table des
matières".

The problem is therefore probably in ox-latex.el (but way above my
level of competance in emacs-lisp...).

--
Emmanuel Charpentier

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[emanuel.charpentier]

I forgot to add that, when exporting to plain tex or ODT, #+language*
*seems* to be honored : the table of contents is entitled "Table des
matières".

The problem is therefore probably in ox-latex.el (but way above my
level of competance in em...

--
Emmanuel Charpentier

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Eric S Fraga]

On Sunday, 25 Nov 2018 at 21:36, emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com wrote:
> I forgot to add that, when exporting to plain tex or ODT, #+language*
> *seems* to be honored : the table of contents is entitled "Table des
> matières".
>
> The problem is therefore probably in ox-latex.el (but way above my
> level of competance in em...

But it works just fine for me.  Have you actually had a look at the
LaTeX that is created?  I wonder whether you might have a setting for
the LaTeX export that includes other settings than just the default or
which doesn't allow the language setting to be included?

-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.1.14-1034-gafcb1d

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Emmanuel Charpentier]

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My original posting included the tex file generated by C-c C-e l l.
Perusing it will show you that babel is not used anywhere in this export.

On the (remote) chance that my problem might be caused by my use of emacs
25.2, I just installe emacs 26 from the emacs-snapshot packages for Debian
testing, ang got exactlu the same prolem.

The org-relevant part of my .emacs is as follows :

(require 'org)
(require 'org-ref)

Then, later

;; Septembre 2018 : org-mode

;; touches globales : À revoir ?
(global-set-key "\C-cl" 'org-store-link)
(global-set-key "\C-ca" 'org-agenda)
(global-set-key "\C-cc" 'org-capture)
(global-set-key "\C-cb" 'org-switchb)
;; Chemin de la bibliothèque ditaa
(setq org-ditaa-jar-path "/usr/share/ditaa/ditaa.jar")
;; Autoriser les évaluations Babel
(setq org-confirm-babel-evaluate nil)
;; Langages connus
(org-babel-do-load-languages
 'org-babel-load-languages
 '((ditaa . t)
   (emacs-lisp . t)
   (R . t)
   (python . t)
   (sagemath . t)
   (julia . t)
   (gnuplot . t)
   (maxima . t)
   (stan . t)
   (mathematica . t)
   (sqlite . t)
   ;; (sh . t)
   ))

Like it or not, believe it or not, this setup is sufficient to create the
problem I reported.

HTH,

--
Emmanuel Charpentier


Le mar. 27 nov. 2018 à 15:20, Eric S Fraga <esflists@gmail.com> a écrit :

> On Sunday, 25 Nov 2018 at 21:36, emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com wrote:
> > I forgot to add that, when exporting to plain tex or ODT, #+language*
> > *seems* to be honored : the table of contents is entitled "Table des
> > matières".
> >
> > The problem is therefore probably in ox-latex.el (but way above my
> > level of competance in em...
>
> But it works just fine for me.  Have you actually had a look at the
> LaTeX that is created?  I wonder whether you might have a setting for
> the LaTeX export that includes other settings than just the default or
> which doesn't allow the language setting to be included?
>
> --
> Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.1.14-1034-gafcb1d
>

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Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Emmanuel Charpentier <emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com> writes:

> My original posting included the tex file generated by C-c C-e l l.
> Perusing it will show you that babel is not used anywhere in this export.
>
> On the (remote) chance that my problem might be caused by my use of emacs
> 25.2, I just installe emacs 26 from the emacs-snapshot packages for Debian
> testing, ang got exactlu the same prolem.
>
> The org-relevant part of my .emacs is as follows :
>
> (require 'org)
> (require 'org-ref)
>
> Then, later
>
> ;; Septembre 2018 : org-mode
>
> ;; touches globales : À revoir ?
> (global-set-key "\C-cl" 'org-store-link)
> (global-set-key "\C-ca" 'org-agenda)
> (global-set-key "\C-cc" 'org-capture)
> (global-set-key "\C-cb" 'org-switchb)
> ;; Chemin de la bibliothèque ditaa
> (setq org-ditaa-jar-path "/usr/share/ditaa/ditaa.jar")
> ;; Autoriser les évaluations Babel
> (setq org-confirm-babel-evaluate nil)
> ;; Langages connus
> (org-babel-do-load-languages
>  'org-babel-load-languages
>  '((ditaa . t)
>    (emacs-lisp . t)
>    (R . t)
>    (python . t)
>    (sagemath . t)
>    (julia . t)
>    (gnuplot . t)
>    (maxima . t)
>    (stan . t)
>    (mathematica . t)
>    (sqlite . t)
>    ;; (sh . t)
>    ))
>
> Like it or not, believe it or not, this setup is sufficient to create the
> problem I reported.

What happens if you remove "org-ref.el" reference?

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[emanuel.charpentier]

Le mardi 27 novembre 2018 à 21:26 +0100, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit :

[ Snip... ]

> What happens if you remove "org-ref.el" reference?

Same thing.

Even after uninstalling org-ref and its dependencies.

Sorry...


--
Emmanuel Charpentier

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Nicolas Goaziou]

emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com writes:

> Le mardi 27 novembre 2018 à 21:26 +0100, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit :
>
> [ Snip... ]
>
>> What happens if you remove "org-ref.el" reference?
>
> Same thing.
>
> Even after uninstalling org-ref and its dependencies.
>
> Sorry...

OK. I got it. This has nothing to do with LANGUAGE keyword.

Babel is not a default package, per `org-latex-default-packages-alist.
You need to add it to `org-latex-packages-alist'.

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Emmanuel Charpentier]

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Le mercredi 28 novembre 2018 à 00:40 +0100, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit :

> emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com writes:
>

> > Le mardi 27 novembre 2018 à 21:26 +0100, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit :
> >
> > [ Snip... ]
> >

> > > What happens if you remove "org-ref.el" reference?

> >
> > Same thing.
> >
> > Even after uninstalling org-ref and its dependencies.
> >
> > Sorry...

>
> OK. I got it. This has nothing to do with LANGUAGE keyword.
>
> Babel is not a default package, per `org-latex-default-packages-
> alist.
> You need to add it to `org-latex-packages-alist'.


Close, but no cigar :

I used the `customize' interface to add it to `org-latex-default-
packages-alist' (because the package to load is compiler-dependent),
which becomes:

(("AUTO" "inputenc" t
  ("pdflatex"))
 ("T1" "fontenc" t
  ("pdflatex"))
 (#1="" "graphicx" t nil)
 (#1# "grffile" t nil)
 (#1# "longtable" nil nil)
 (#1# "wrapfig" nil nil)
 (#1# "rotating" nil nil)
 ("normalem" "ulem" t nil)
 (#1# "amsmath" t nil)
 (#1# "textcomp" t nil)
 (#1# "amssymb" t nil)
 (#1# "capt-of" nil nil)
 (#1# "hyperref" nil nil)
 (#1# "babel" t
      ("pdflatex"))
 (#1# "polyglossia" t
      ("xelatex" "lualatex")))

I then retried an example (similar to the first one, but another
machine...) (see enclosed files).

  * The latex file does indeed contain "\usepackage{babel}" at the end
    of preamble

  * But the language is never set.

  * Therefore, no "frenchizing" happens...

This is due to the fact that, in order to get what I mean, the babel
loading should be "\usepackage[frenchb]{babel}", i. e. take the value
corresponding to whatever #+language: implies ("frenchb" for "fr",
etc...). I do not know how to do that.

Is there a documented way to do that, or should I dive in ox-latex
source ?

A couple of remarks :
  * If this setup is necessary to get #+langiage: honored fot LaTeX
    export, this should be done by default (i. e. in org's source
    code).

  * One might wish to allow to fully use babel's (and polyglossia's)
    abilities by specifying a set of possible #+language:s (first
    call) or switch to another language (further calls down the
    file...).

  * concerning french: I understand that "frenchb" is obsolete and
    that one should use "french" instead (better compatibility with
    ispell and flyspell-babel, among others)...

  * I suggest a '(#1# "fontspec" t '(xelatex lualatex)), and possibly
    an '(#1# "mathspec" t '(xetex luatex)) or '(#1# "unicode-math" t
                                                '(xetex luatex))
    entry(ies) to be added to the default : xetex is more and more
    used, and luatex is officially the successor to pdftex...

HTH,

--
Emmanuel Charpentier


Le mer. 28 nov. 2018 à 00:40, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> a
écrit :

> emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com writes:
>
> > Le mardi 27 novembre 2018 à 21:26 +0100, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit :
> >
> > [ Snip... ]
> >
> >> What happens if you remove "org-ref.el" reference?
> >
> > Same thing.
> >
> > Even after uninstalling org-ref and its dependencies.
> >
> > Sorry...
>
> OK. I got it. This has nothing to do with LANGUAGE keyword.
>
> Babel is not a default package, per `org-latex-default-packages-alist.
> You need to add it to `org-latex-packages-alist'.
>
>

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[-- Attachment #2: TstFrench.org --]
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# Test de l'option #+language

#+title: Test de l'option =#+language:=
#+author: Emmanuel Charpentier
#+date: Novembre 2018
#+language: french

* Pique.

Baratin.

* Et pique...

Autre baratin.

* Et colégram!

Troisième baratin.


[-- Attachment #3: TstFrench.tex --]
[-- Type: text/x-tex, Size: 960 bytes --]

% Created 2018-11-28 mer. 11:48
% Intended LaTeX compiler: pdflatex
\documentclass[11pt]{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\usepackage{grffile}
\usepackage{longtable}
\usepackage{wrapfig}
\usepackage{rotating}
\usepackage[normalem]{ulem}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{textcomp}
\usepackage{amssymb}
\usepackage{capt-of}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\usepackage{babel}
\author{Emmanuel Charpentier}
\date{Novembre 2018}
\title{Test de l'option \texttt{\#+language:}}
\hypersetup{
 pdfauthor={Emmanuel Charpentier},
 pdftitle={Test de l'option \texttt{\#+language:}},
 pdfkeywords={},
 pdfsubject={},
 pdfcreator={Emacs 27.0.50 (Org mode 9.1.14)}, 
 pdflang={French}}
\begin{document}

\maketitle
\tableofcontents


\section{Pique.}
\label{sec:orgf5d6a52}

Baratin.

\section{Et pique\ldots{}}
\label{sec:orge68ddf8}

Autre baratin.

\section{Et colégram!}
\label{sec:orgf4c826b}

Troisième baratin.
\end{document}

[-- Attachment #4: TstFrench.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 91000 bytes --]

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Emmanuel Charpentier <emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com> writes:

> Close, but no cigar :
>
> I used the `customize' interface to add it to `org-latex-default-
> packages-alist' (because the package to load is compiler-dependent),

This has nothing to do with compiler. You can add it to `org-latex-packages-alist'.

> which becomes:
>
> (("AUTO" "inputenc" t
>   ("pdflatex"))
>  ("T1" "fontenc" t
>   ("pdflatex"))
>  (#1="" "graphicx" t nil)
>  (#1# "grffile" t nil)
>  (#1# "longtable" nil nil)
>  (#1# "wrapfig" nil nil)
>  (#1# "rotating" nil nil)
>  ("normalem" "ulem" t nil)
>  (#1# "amsmath" t nil)
>  (#1# "textcomp" t nil)
>  (#1# "amssymb" t nil)
>  (#1# "capt-of" nil nil)
>  (#1# "hyperref" nil nil)
>  (#1# "babel" t
>       ("pdflatex"))
>  (#1# "polyglossia" t
>       ("xelatex" "lualatex")))
>
> I then retried an example (similar to the first one, but another
> machine...) (see enclosed files).
>
>   * The latex file does indeed contain "\usepackage{babel}" at the end
>     of preamble
>
>   * But the language is never set.
>
>   * Therefore, no "frenchizing" happens...
>
> This is due to the fact that, in order to get what I mean, the babel
> loading should be "\usepackage[frenchb]{babel}", i. e. take the value
> corresponding to whatever #+language: implies ("frenchb" for "fr",
> etc...). I do not know how to do that.

See `org-latex-classes' docstring: it should be ("AUTO" "babel" t).

>   * If this setup is necessary to get #+langiage: honored fot LaTeX
>     export, this should be done by default (i. e. in org's source
>     code).

AFAIR, there is no clean way to handle that, so we let users decide what
they want.

>   * One might wish to allow to fully use babel's (and polyglossia's)
>     abilities by specifying a set of possible #+language:s (first
>     call) or switch to another language (further calls down the
>     file...).

See `org-latex-classes' docstring.

>   * concerning french: I understand that "frenchb" is obsolete and
>     that one should use "french" instead (better compatibility with
>     ispell and flyspell-babel, among others)...

I didn't know that. I'll fix it in master.

>   * I suggest a '(#1# "fontspec" t '(xelatex lualatex)), and possibly
>     an '(#1# "mathspec" t '(xetex luatex)) or '(#1# "unicode-math" t
>                                                 '(xetex luatex))
>     entry(ies) to be added to the default : xetex is more and more
>     used, and luatex is officially the successor to pdftex...

I use neither xetex or luatex so I cannot comment of this.

However note that default packages should be very limited. It is easy
enough to add more of them to standard packages.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[emanuel.charpentier]

TL;DR : your fix works, but I disagree with the absence od
documentation and default. See below :

Le mercredi 28 novembre 2018 à 15:06 +0100, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit :
> Hello,
> 
> Emmanuel Charpentier <emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > Close, but no cigar :
> > 
> > I used the `customize' interface to add it to `org-latex-default-
> > packages-alist' (because the package to load is compiler-
> > dependent),
> 
> This has nothing to do with compiler. You can add it to `org-latex-
> packages-alist'.

AFAICT, polyglossia is to be preferred to babel for use with xelatex or
lualatex. I'll see if this can be accomodated.

> [ Snip... ]

I'll do that.

> See `org-latex-classes' docstring:

> it should be ("AUTO" "babel" t).

OK. That's much clearer. And does what is intended, BTW.

Shouldn't that be default ?(No, I don't (yet) know *how* to do that..).

> >   * If this setup is necessary to get #+langiage: honored fot LaTeX
> >     export, this should be done by default (i. e. in org's source
> >     code).
> 
> AFAIR, there is no clean way to handle that, so we let users decide
> what
> they want.

Thus introducing a serious problem : exporting to text or ODT works as
described, whereas export to latex needs (undocumented) supplementary
steps.

At the very minimum, this need for further config should be mentioned
in the docs ; preferably, a default should be proposed.

> 
> >   * One might wish to allow to fully use babel's (and
> > polyglossia's)
> >     abilities by specifying a set of possible #+language:s (first
> >     call) or switch to another language (further calls down the
> >     file...).
> 
> See `org-latex-classes' docstring.

Thanks for the tip ! Now, I begin to understand...

> 
> >   * concerning french: I understand that "frenchb" is obsolete and
> >     that one should use "french" instead (better compatibility with
> >     ispell and flyspell-babel, among others)...
> 
> I didn't know that. I'll fix it in master.
> 
> >   * I suggest a '(#1# "fontspec" t '(xelatex lualatex)), and
> > possibly
> >     an '(#1# "mathspec" t '(xetex luatex)) or '(#1# "unicode-math"
> > t
> >                                                 '(xetex luatex))
> >     entry(ies) to be added to the default : xetex is more and more
> >     used, and luatex is officially the successor to pdftex...
> 
> I use neither xetex or luatex so I cannot comment of this.

I'll try to whip up a proposal.

Sincerely,

--
Emmanuel Charpentier

> However note that default packages should be very limited. It is easy
> enough to add more of them to standard packages.
> 
> Regards,
> 

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com writes:

> AFAICT, polyglossia is to be preferred to babel for use with xelatex or
> lualatex. I'll see if this can be accomodated.

What I mean is that you can also add compiler dependant packages in
`org-latex-packages-alist'. No need to change the default package list.

>> it should be ("AUTO" "babel" t).
>
> OK. That's much clearer. And does what is intended, BTW.
>
> Shouldn't that be default ?(No, I don't (yet) know *how* to do that..).

Babel is no small package. I think it would be a bit invasive as
a default package. However, it is a good candidate for user-defined
packages, i.e., `org-latex-packages-alist'.

> Thus introducing a serious problem : exporting to text or ODT works as
> described, whereas export to latex needs (undocumented) supplementary
> steps.
>
> At the very minimum, this need for further config should be mentioned
> in the docs ; preferably, a default should be proposed.

See above about the default. However, please feel free to suggest
documentation improvements, however.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Emmanuel Charpentier]

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Dear Nicolas,

Thanks a lot for bearing with my nitpicking. A couple remarks below

Le jeudi 29 novembre 2018 à 15:07 +0100, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit :

> Hello,
>
> emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com writes:
>

> > AFAICT, polyglossia is to be preferred to babel for use with
> > xelatex or
> > lualatex. I'll see if this can be accomodated.

>
> What I mean is that you can also add compiler dependant packages in
> `org-latex-packages-alist'.


This is *not* *documented* (not even in the `org-latex-packages-alist''s
docstring).

I *checked* that one can add 4-element "cells" to this list (i. e. (list
argument package, snippet-flag, list-of-compilers)), but could not *guess*
it : I'm still running /H sapiens sapiens L./ v 1.0, no telepathic
interface, no oracular coprocessor. The only way would have been to read
the source code : not exactly the first reflex of the average end-user.

> No need to change the default package list.


I dispute that, since this "special configuration" is needed for LaTeX
export *only* , and *only* with non-English #+language:s. This
"exceptional" treatment should be handled silently by org-mode (as it does
with ODT, HTML and plain text export...). But see below.

> > > it should be ("AUTO" "babel" t).

> >
> > OK. That's much clearer. And does what is intended, BTW.
> >
> > Shouldn't that be default ?(No, I don't (yet) know *how* to do
> > that..).

>
> Babel is no small package.


Agreed. And polyglossia is worse...

> I think it would be a bit invasive as
> a default package.


Also agreed, with the reservation that "invasive" didn't mean the same
thing in the 1980s (when the core size of computers was measured in
kilobytes) and in the 2010s (the current core measurement unit is the
/giga/byte...).

> However, it is a good candidate for user-defined
> packages, i.e., `org-latex-packages-alist'.


Again, I think that the end user should *not* have to worry with this only
when exporting to LaTeX (or beamer or PDF). If this can be handled silently
when exporting to ODT, HTML or plain text, it should be handled silently
when exporting to LaTeX.

I do not know how to handle this. My *hunch* is that the Latex Export
function generating the preamble should check for language, and if not
default, add the relevant package(s) to the preamble. I'll need to dive in
the source code to be more precise (not anytime soon, though...).

> > Thus introducing a serious problem : exporting to text or ODT works
> > as
> > described, whereas export to latex needs (undocumented)
> > supplementary
> > steps.
> >
> > At the very minimum, this need for further config should be
> > mentioned
> > in the docs ; preferably, a default should be proposed.

>
> See above about the default. However, please feel free to suggest
> documentation improvements, however.


I'll propose a documentation attempt. But this should be considered as a
workaround, the real solution being the implementation of automatic
handling...

Cordially yours,

--
Emmanuel Charpentier


> Regards,
>




>
>

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Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Emmanuel Charpentier <emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com> writes:

> This is *not* *documented* (not even in the `org-latex-packages-alist''s
> docstring).

I know. I fixed `org-latex-packages-alist''s docstring two days ago.

> Also agreed, with the reservation that "invasive" didn't mean the same
> thing in the 1980s (when the core size of computers was measured in
> kilobytes) and in the 2010s (the current core measurement unit is the
> /giga/byte...).

Not invasive by its sheer size, but by the number of alterations it
generates in the LaTeX default behaviour, and the incompatibilities it
may introduce. For example there used to be issues between frenchb and
KOMA-Script.

> Again, I think that the end user should *not* have to worry with this only
> when exporting to LaTeX (or beamer or PDF). 

Ideally, that would be nice.

> If this can be handled silently when exporting to ODT, HTML or plain
> text, it should be handled silently when exporting to LaTeX.

I disagree. Packages should not be loaded /silently/.

> I do not know how to handle this. My *hunch* is that the Latex Export
> function generating the preamble should check for language

It does already, in `org-latex-guess-babel-language'.

> and if not default, add the relevant package(s) to the preamble.

Don't. Anything that is in the header should be declared.

We could try and see if Babel causes trouble by adding it to default
packages in "next" branch. I'd rather do that than inserting it
magically.

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[emanuel.charpentier]

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Dear all,

Please find enclosed a proposed patch (against master) to document the
need for babel/polyglossia in order to honor #+language in LaTeX
export.

This is purely a documentation patch. A better solution would be to
detect the use of a non-default #+language: and act accordingly.
Nicolas notes (rightly) that babel (and polyglossia, BTW) are too
"invasive" to be default, and is shy of auto-loading the necessary
package(s) "automagically.

I do not (yet) know how ti reconcile these imperative, hence the
present interim atch (which should disappear if/when a better solution
is created).

HTH,

--
Emmanuel Charpentier


Le jeudi 29 novembre 2018 à 20:12 +0100, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit :
> Emmanuel Charpentier <emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > This is *not* *documented* (not even in the `org-latex-packages-
> > alist''s
> > docstring).
> 
> I know. I fixed `org-latex-packages-alist''s docstring two days ago.
> 
> > Also agreed, with the reservation that "invasive" didn't mean the
> > same
> > thing in the 1980s (when the core size of computers was measured in
> > kilobytes) and in the 2010s (the current core measurement unit is
> > the
> > /giga/byte...).
> 
> Not invasive by its sheer size, but by the number of alterations it
> generates in the LaTeX default behaviour, and the incompatibilities
> it
> may introduce. For example there used to be issues between frenchb
> and
> KOMA-Script.
> 
> > Again, I think that the end user should *not* have to worry with
> > this only
> > when exporting to LaTeX (or beamer or PDF). 
> 
> Ideally, that would be nice.
> 
> > If this can be handled silently when exporting to ODT, HTML or
> > plain
> > text, it should be handled silently when exporting to LaTeX.
> 
> I disagree. Packages should not be loaded /silently/.
> 
> > I do not know how to handle this. My *hunch* is that the Latex
> > Export
> > function generating the preamble should check for language
> 
> It does already, in `org-latex-guess-babel-language'.
> 
> > and if not default, add the relevant package(s) to the preamble.
> 
> Don't. Anything that is in the header should be declared.
> 
> We could try and see if Babel causes trouble by adding it to default
> packages in "next" branch. I'd rather do that than inserting it
> magically.

[-- Attachment #2: 0001-org-manual.org-document-the-need-for-babel-when-sett.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 2119 bytes --]

From 7fa155f018687a3395c972661c42159dbfc35fe6 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Emmanuel Charpentier <emm.charpentier@free.fr>
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2018 21:01:08 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] org-manual.org: document the need for babel when setting
 #+language:

* Add a note to Export Variables.

* Describe the use of org-latex-packages-alist for loading babel (or
  polyglossia) with the right argument in LaTeX specific export settings.
---
 doc/org-manual.org | 24 ++++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 24 insertions(+)

diff --git a/doc/org-manual.org b/doc/org-manual.org
index 458e59a4a..349d01e48 100644
--- a/doc/org-manual.org
+++ b/doc/org-manual.org
@@ -11249,6 +11249,10 @@ global variables, include:
      example, Org translates =Table of contents= to the French =Table
      des matières=.
 
+     For export to LaTeX format (or LaTeX-related formats such as PDF
+     or =beamer=), the =org-latex-package-alist= variable needs
+     configuration in [[LaTeX specific export settings]] ([[LatexSetupForLanguage][description)]]
+
 - =SELECT_TAGS= ::
 
      #+cindex: @samp{SELECT_TAGS}, keyword
@@ -12973,6 +12977,26 @@ general options (see [[*Export Settings]]).
      the document's front matter.  Use multiple =DESCRIPTION= keywords
      for long descriptions.
 
+- =LANGUAGE= ::
+     #+cindex: @samp{LANGUAGE}, keyword
+     #+vindex: org-export-default-language
+     #+vindex: org-latex-package-alist
+     <<LatexSetupForLanguage>>LaTeX-specific setting: in order to be
+     effective in LaTeX export, the =babel= or =polyglossia= packages
+     (according to the LaTeX compiler used) must be loaded with the
+     appropriate language as argument.
+
+     These packages being too invasive for loading them by default,
+     this is not currently done by default. This can be accomplished
+     by setting (or adding to) the =org-latex-package-alist= variable
+     the following snippet:
+
+#+BEGIN_EXAMPLE
+'(("AUTO" "babel" t '("pdflatex"))
+  ("AUTO" "polyglossia" t '("xelatex" "lualatex"))) 
+#+END_EXAMPLE
+
+     
 - =LATEX_CLASS= ::
 
      #+cindex: @samp{LATEX_CLASS}, keyword
-- 
2.19.2

Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Emmanuel Charpentier]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2685 bytes --]

Rights transferred to FSF (scanned signed copy of the form set to
assign@fsf.org).

HTH,

--
Emmanuel Charpentier

Le dim. 2 déc. 2018 à 21:26, <emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com> a écrit :

> Dear all,
>
> Please find enclosed a proposed patch (against master) to document the
> need for babel/polyglossia in order to honor #+language in LaTeX
> export.
>
> This is purely a documentation patch. A better solution would be to
> detect the use of a non-default #+language: and act accordingly.
> Nicolas notes (rightly) that babel (and polyglossia, BTW) are too
> "invasive" to be default, and is shy of auto-loading the necessary
> package(s) "automagically.
>
> I do not (yet) know how ti reconcile these imperative, hence the
> present interim atch (which should disappear if/when a better solution
> is created).
>
> HTH,
>
> --
> Emmanuel Charpentier
>
>
> Le jeudi 29 novembre 2018 à 20:12 +0100, Nicolas Goaziou a écrit :
> > Emmanuel Charpentier <emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > > This is *not* *documented* (not even in the `org-latex-packages-
> > > alist''s
> > > docstring).
> >
> > I know. I fixed `org-latex-packages-alist''s docstring two days ago.
> >
> > > Also agreed, with the reservation that "invasive" didn't mean the
> > > same
> > > thing in the 1980s (when the core size of computers was measured in
> > > kilobytes) and in the 2010s (the current core measurement unit is
> > > the
> > > /giga/byte...).
> >
> > Not invasive by its sheer size, but by the number of alterations it
> > generates in the LaTeX default behaviour, and the incompatibilities
> > it
> > may introduce. For example there used to be issues between frenchb
> > and
> > KOMA-Script.
> >
> > > Again, I think that the end user should *not* have to worry with
> > > this only
> > > when exporting to LaTeX (or beamer or PDF).
> >
> > Ideally, that would be nice.
> >
> > > If this can be handled silently when exporting to ODT, HTML or
> > > plain
> > > text, it should be handled silently when exporting to LaTeX.
> >
> > I disagree. Packages should not be loaded /silently/.
> >
> > > I do not know how to handle this. My *hunch* is that the Latex
> > > Export
> > > function generating the preamble should check for language
> >
> > It does already, in `org-latex-guess-babel-language'.
> >
> > > and if not default, add the relevant package(s) to the preamble.
> >
> > Don't. Anything that is in the header should be declared.
> >
> > We could try and see if Babel causes trouble by adding it to default
> > packages in "next" branch. I'd rather do that than inserting it
> > magically.
>

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Re: Possible bug in org-mode (MELPA version as of 1018-11-25) : #+language: is not (fully) honored.

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

emanuel.charpentier@gmail.com writes:

> Please find enclosed a proposed patch (against master) to document the
> need for babel/polyglossia in order to honor #+language in LaTeX
> export.

I applied your patch with slight modifications.

Thank you.

> This is purely a documentation patch. A better solution would be to
> detect the use of a non-default #+language: and act accordingly.
> Nicolas notes (rightly) that babel (and polyglossia, BTW) are too
> "invasive" to be default, and is shy of auto-loading the necessary
> package(s) "automagically.
>
> I do not (yet) know how ti reconcile these imperative, hence the
> present interim atch (which should disappear if/when a better solution
> is created).

As I wrote, we can try adding babel and polyglossia in the package list
and see what happens. I don't like the idea of babel package appearing
in document's header if it's not specified somewhere.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou