[bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

thank you to everybody who made org 9 possible.


in recent org 9 maint

*********** NEXTREPEAT test :goto:
SCHEDULED: <2016-07-15 Fri 21:00 .+1d>

does not show up in the timed section of agenda
it shows in scheduled section
other tasks like it show in timed section
if the date is today, then it works correctly
*correctly to me is the traditional behavior of showing up every day*

i have a hypothesis that this is due to a discussion some time ago
from somebody who did not want repeaters to pop up again after the
repeater interval unless they were doneified.

both he and i urged that that such a new, different behavior should be
optional, as i rely on being reminded of repeaters more than once
/even when they have not been doneified/.  however, i could be wrong
about the origin of this, to me, bug.

if the hypothesis is not wrong, then i believe it's a personal opinion
which behavior should be default.  some will want the new behavior of
allowing things to fall into obscurity if not doneified.  some like
myself rely on the task popping up again.  both should be available,
in my opinion, as there are insufficient workarounds.

it does not seem to be documented in the release notes, so i hope that
it is just a bug, or that there is a variable for it.

i will probably have to downgrade to org 8 until this is fixed or i
find the variable.

thanks.

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  And
ANYBODY can get it.

Denmark: free Karina Hansen NOW.
  UPDATE 2016-10: home, but not fully free

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> *********** NEXTREPEAT test :goto:
> SCHEDULED: <2016-07-15 Fri 21:00 .+1d>
>
> does not show up in the timed section of agenda

What is "the timed section" of agenda?

> it shows in scheduled section
> other tasks like it show in timed section
> if the date is today, then it works correctly
> *correctly to me is the traditional behavior of showing up every day*

I don't get it.

> it does not seem to be documented in the release notes, so i hope that
> it is just a bug, or that there is a variable for it.

Are you talking about `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all'?

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

hi nicolas,

On 11/8/16, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
> What is "the timed section" of agenda?

the time grid.

>> it shows in scheduled section
>> other tasks like it show in timed section
>> if the date is today, then it works correctly
>> *correctly to me is the traditional behavior of showing up every day*
>
> I don't get it.

it's a tagged (scheduled) active timestamp with a time.  it belongs in
the grid.  it showed up in the grid in org 8.  it does not now.

>> it does not seem to be documented in the release notes, so i hope that
>> it is just a bug, or that there is a variable for it.
>
> Are you talking about `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all'?

possibly you removed a reference to this variable for certain repeater
types, or something.  the variable does not have a setting to allow
org 8 behavior in any case.


samuel

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  And
ANYBODY can get it.

Denmark: free Karina Hansen NOW.
  UPDATE 2016-10: home, but not fully free

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

> it's a tagged (scheduled) active timestamp with a time.  it belongs in
> the grid.  it showed up in the grid in org 8.  it does not now.

Well, it does here. Not sure what is wrong in your set-up. You may to
try re-installing Org.

Regards,

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

thanks to both you and cesar.  it appears i have to investigate further.

On 11/8/16, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
> Well, it does here. Not sure what is wrong in your set-up. You may to
> try re-installing Org.

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1127 bytes --]

On 11/8/16, cesar mena <cesar.mena@gmail.com> wrote:
> i just tried this on maint, and it does show up in the time grid as
> well.

are you running it with today only in the agenda?  i.e. not weekly.

i am still getting the bug in org maint, with debian jessie emacs 24.4.1.

here is the mce.

i did:

put this in $dorg/computer--a.org (loaded in my testcase)

*********** NEXT xyzzy test (make this be a date that is before today;
it should show up in agenda time grid)
SCHEDULED: <2016-11-07 Mon 17:00>

cd to $delorgsrc
put head on maint
confirm status is clean
make cleanall
make oldorg
run my testcase (attached)
  -Q
  shows today only in agenda

result:

what it shows is the task with 3x (i.e. scheduled section, not time grid)
  this is the bug

interestingly, if i run org-agenda a, which shows a whole week
  then the same, single task shows in TWO places
    time grid
    scheduled section

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  And
ANYBODY can get it.

Denmark: free Karina Hansen NOW.
  UPDATE 2016-10: home, but not fully free

[-- Attachment #2: alpha-org-testcase.el --]
[-- Type: text/x-emacs-lisp, Size: 3663 bytes --]

;;;
;;; alpha-org-testcase.el
;;;
;;; minimal testcase for org
;;;
;;; to run as you, do this:
;;;
;;;   dorg=your-org-data-dir \
;;;       delorgsrc=your-org-src-dir \
;;;       emacs -Q -l alpha-org-testcase.el
;;;
;;; for my use i do something like this for accessibility:
;;;
"
account eot

which is basically:

mep=t eq -l $del/tests-and-publish/alpha-org-testcase.el $dorg/tests--org--xyzzy-big/export-and-id.org

mep=t emacs -Q --geometry 60x30+0+0 -l $del/tests-and-publish/alpha-org-testcase.el $dorg/tests--org--xyzzy-big/export-and-id.org
"
;;;

;;; nyi
;;;       delorgcontrib=your-org-src-contrib-dir \

(require 'cl)

;;my org files use these
(setq org-odd-levels-only t)
;; (setf org-export-initial-scope 'subtree)

;;fix abominations
(blink-cursor-mode 0)
(setf visible-bell 'top-bottom)

;;basics
(defun alpha-add-path (p) (setq load-path (cons p load-path)))
(alpha-add-path (concat (getenv "delorgsrc") "/lisp"))
(add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.org$" . org-mode))
(require 'org-install)


;;;
;;;stuff make things easier
;;;

(ido-mode t)
(setf org-outline-path-complete-in-steps nil)

;;;
;;;accessibility fixes
;;;

(defun p ()
  (interactive)
  (message "fixing pop-up-windows")
  ;;i have /pop-up-windows/ set to nil, which works for most of
  ;;emacs.  for org, i do the following.  i need all of this just
  ;;as i need the large font above for accessibility reasons.
  ;;
  ;;(setf (cdr (assoc* 'file org-link-frame-setup)) 'find-file)
  (pushnew '(file . find-file) org-link-frame-setup :test #'equal)
  ;;it might be nice to have a 'dedicated-buffer option
  (setf org-indirect-buffer-display 'current-window)
  ;;could make pop kill the buffer
;;;(setf org-display-internal-link-with-indirect-buffer t)
  (setf org-src-window-setup 'current-window)
  (add-hook 'org-capture-mode-hook 'delete-other-windows)
  (defadvice org-agenda-set-tags (around fix-windows activate compile)
    "Restore windows."
    (save-window-excursion
      ad-do-it))
  (defadvice org-export (after fix-windows activate compile)
    "Delete other windows after every export."
    (delete-other-windows))

  (setf pop-up-windows nil)

  ;;for emacs i do this
  
  (add-to-list 'same-window-regexps "\\*Customize.*") ;notwork?
  (setf Man-notify-method 'pushy)
  (add-to-list 'same-window-regexps "\\*Man .*") ;notwork
  (add-to-list 'same-window-regexps "\\*.*\\*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names "*Remember*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names "*Help*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names "*Apropos*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names "*Summary*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names "*Compile-Log*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names "*Ibuffer*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names " *Ibuffer*")
  (message "done fixing pop-up-windows"))
(when (getenv "mep")
  ;;it is i
  (defconst alpha-alpha-p t)
  (require 'org)
  (p)
  ;;necessary for large fonts
  (scroll-bar-mode -1))

;;;
;;;basic org features likely to affect many bug reports
;;;

(setq org-todo-keywords
      '((type  "NAKA(i)" "TODO(T)" "MAYBE(y)" "DOUBTFUL(l)"
         "|"
         "MOOT(m)")))

(setq org-agenda-files
      (mapcar #'file-truename
          ;;this is like a file-expand-regexp
          (directory-files (getenv "dorg")
                           ;;full pathname
                           t
                           ;;cloned indirect buffers create dot
                           ;;files
                           "^[^.#]+--a\\.org$")))

(setq org-agenda-window-setup 'current-window)

;;;
;;; do the actual thing being tested
;;;

(org-agenda-list nil nil 1)
;; (search-forward "xyzzy test")
(occur "xyzzy test")

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

On 11/9/16, cmena@pobox.com <cmena@pobox.com> wrote:
>> SCHEDULED: <2016-11-07 Mon 17:00>

> this example does not have a repeater though. without a repeater, you
> are right, it does not show in the time grid.

oops.

please put .+1d on that
now try it
for me it only shows a 3x.  it does not show in time grid.
  this is the bug
in my version of org 8 -- it only shows in the time grid
  this is the behavior i expect, am used to, and need

>> interestingly, if i run org-agenda a, which shows a whole week
>>   then the same, single task shows in TWO places
>>     time grid
>>     scheduled section
>
> i rather like this behaviour. if a timed non-repeating task was not
> marked done, i just want to see that is is late; unless i dig deeper.

i think i agree.  but that's not the bug i am reporting.

>
> best!

:)

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  And
ANYBODY can get it.

Denmark: free Karina Hansen NOW.
  UPDATE 2016-10: home, but not fully free

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

On 11/9/16, cesar mena <cmena@pobox.com> wrote:
>               17:00...... Sched. 3x:  TODO test

you got this running the testcase?  there is no xyzzy there.

> did you check the value of org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all as
> nicolas suggested?

it is emacs -Q, and it is not changed in the testcase code.

thus, it is t, which is the default value.

why would you get a different result?  is it the emacs version?

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  And
ANYBODY can get it.

Denmark: free Karina Hansen NOW.
  UPDATE 2016-10: home, but not fully free

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

On 11/10/16, cesar mena <cmena@pobox.com> wrote:
> so the only thing i noticed is that your test case did not set
> org-agenda-files for me. specifically your regexp did not pick up the
> file (filename is test.org). i changed it as below, and it worked.

thanks.

i have documented my testcase for future purposes to be clear about this.

i did find one thing:

org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all has changed its
meaning in org 9.

when nil
  my version of org 8 (and previous versions of org) will show the
task in the grid
  org 9 will not show the task in the grid

note that this is when nil.

is anything known about this change?

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  And
ANYBODY can get it.

Denmark: free Karina Hansen NOW.
  UPDATE 2016-10: home, but not fully free

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[cesar mena]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> On 11/10/16, cesar mena <cmena@pobox.com> wrote:
>> so the only thing i noticed is that your test case did not set
>> org-agenda-files for me. specifically your regexp did not pick up the
>> file (filename is test.org). i changed it as below, and it worked.
>
> thanks.
>
> i have documented my testcase for future purposes to be clear about this.
>
> i did find one thing:
>
> org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all has changed its
> meaning in org 9.
>
> when nil
>   my version of org 8 (and previous versions of org) will show the
> task in the grid
>   org 9 will not show the task in the grid
>
> note that this is when nil.
>
> is anything known about this change?

i am not aware of any.  try bisecting your tree. if it works for 8, but
not 9 you will eventually find the changeset.

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> On 11/9/16, cmena@pobox.com <cmena@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> SCHEDULED: <2016-11-07 Mon 17:00>
>
>> this example does not have a repeater though. without a repeater, you
>> are right, it does not show in the time grid.
>
> oops.
>
> please put .+1d on that
> now try it
> for me it only shows a 3x.  it does not show in time grid.
>   this is the bug
> in my version of org 8 -- it only shows in the time grid
>   this is the behavior i expect, am used to, and need

With

  * TODO test
  SCHEDULED: <2016-11-07 Mon 17:00 .+1d>


I get, for weekly view:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Week-agenda (W45):
Monday      7 November 2016 W45
  agenda:     17:00...... Scheduled:  TODO test
Tuesday     8 November 2016
  agenda:     17:00...... Sched. 2x:  TODO test
Wednesday   9 November 2016
  agenda:     17:00...... Sched. 3x:  TODO test
Thursday   10 November 2016
  agenda:     17:00...... Sched. 4x:  TODO test
Friday     11 November 2016
               8:00...... ----------------
              10:00...... ----------------
              11:09...... now - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              12:00...... ----------------
              14:00...... ----------------
              16:00...... ----------------
  agenda:     17:00...... Sched. 5x:  TODO test
              18:00...... ----------------
              20:00...... ----------------
Saturday   12 November 2016
  agenda:     17:00...... Scheduled:  TODO test
Sunday     13 November 2016
  agenda:     17:00...... Scheduled:  TODO test
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

and for daily view

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Day-agenda (W45):
Monday      7 November 2016 W45
               8:00...... ----------------
              10:00...... ----------------
              12:00...... ----------------
              14:00...... ----------------
              16:00...... ----------------
  agenda:     17:00...... Scheduled:  TODO test
              18:00...... ----------------
              20:00...... ----------------
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


Minimal configuration. In particular,
`org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' is t.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1022 bytes --]

ok, i have a new -Q minimal testcase, which is attached.  it explains
how to run it at the top.

the relevant part is at the bottom, so you could just copy that if you
prefer to try your own setup instead.  it's 3 lines.

the task is this:

*********** NEXT xyzzy test
SCHEDULED: <2016-11-07 Mon 17:00 .+1d>
make this be a date that is before real-time today
it should show up in agenda time grid
but it does not

note that this time, (setq org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all nil).

run the testcase twice
  once with delorgsrc=vanilla-org-9-dir
  once with vanilla org "8.2.10"
    this is the standard org version in my emacs version

you will get time grid for the task in org 8 but not in org 9.

i hope this will be totally reproducible no matter what your recent
emacs version.

thanks.

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  And
ANYBODY can get it.

Denmark: free Karina Hansen NOW.
  UPDATE 2016-10: home, but not fully free

[-- Attachment #2: alpha-org-testcase.el --]
[-- Type: text/x-emacs-lisp, Size: 4824 bytes --]

;;;
;;; alpha-org-testcase.el
;;;
;;; minimal testcase for org
;;;
;;; to run, do this:
;;;
;;;   dorg=your-org-data-dir delorgsrc=your-org-src-dir emacs -Q -l alpha-org-testcase.el
;;;
;;; to run with standard emacs org-mode
;;; 
;;;   do the same, but delorgsrc=xyzzy-nil
;;;     which is a nonexistent dir
;;;
;;; any agenda files must look like "file--a.org"

;;; for my use i do something like this for accessibility:
;;;   account eot
;;;   or:
;;;   mep=t eq -l $del/tests-and-publish/alpha-org-testcase.el $dorg/tests--org--xyzzy-big/export-and-id.org
;;;   mep=t emacs -Q --geometry 60x30+0+0 -l $del/tests-and-publish/alpha-org-testcase.el $dorg/tests--org--xyzzy-big/export-and-id.org

;;; nyi
;;;       delorgcontrib=your-org-src-contrib-dir \

(require 'cl)

;;my org files use these
(setq org-odd-levels-only t)
;; (setf org-export-initial-scope 'subtree)

;;fix abominations
(blink-cursor-mode 0)
(setf visible-bell 'top-bottom)

;;basics
(defun alpha-add-path (p) (setq load-path (cons p load-path)))
(alpha-add-path (concat (getenv "delorgsrc") "/lisp"))
(add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.org$" . org-mode))
(require 'org-install)


;;;
;;;stuff make things easier
;;;

(ido-mode t)
(setf org-outline-path-complete-in-steps nil)

;;;
;;;accessibility fixes
;;;

(defun my-settings ()
  (interactive)

  (face-spec-set 'default
                 '((t (
                       :height 131
                       :width normal
                       :foreground "black"
                       :background "#be5000"
                       :foundry "unknown"
                       :family "DejaVu Sans Mono"
                       :inherit nil
                       :inverse-video nil
                       ;; :inverse-video t
                       :weight normal
                       :slant normal
                       :box nil
                       :stipple nil
                       :underline nil
                       :overline nil
                       :strike-through nil
                       ))))
  
  ;; 
  ;; pop-up-windows type stuff
  ;; 
  
  (message "fixing pop-up-windows")
  ;;i have /pop-up-windows/ set to nil, which works for most of
  ;;emacs.  for org, i do the following.  i need all of this just
  ;;as i need the large font above for accessibility reasons.
  ;;
  ;;(setf (cdr (assoc* 'file org-link-frame-setup)) 'find-file)
  (pushnew '(file . find-file) org-link-frame-setup :test #'equal)
  ;;it might be nice to have a 'dedicated-buffer option
  (setf org-indirect-buffer-display 'current-window)
  ;;could make pop kill the buffer
;;;(setf org-display-internal-link-with-indirect-buffer t)
  (setf org-src-window-setup 'current-window)
  (add-hook 'org-capture-mode-hook 'delete-other-windows)
  (defadvice org-agenda-set-tags (around fix-windows activate compile)
    "Restore windows."
    (save-window-excursion
      ad-do-it))
  (defadvice org-export (after fix-windows activate compile)
    "Delete other windows after every export."
    (delete-other-windows))

  (setf pop-up-windows nil)

  ;;for emacs i do this
  
  (add-to-list 'same-window-regexps "\\*Customize.*") ;notwork?
  (setf Man-notify-method 'pushy)
  (add-to-list 'same-window-regexps "\\*Man .*") ;notwork
  (add-to-list 'same-window-regexps "\\*.*\\*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names "*Remember*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names "*Help*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names "*Apropos*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names "*Summary*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names "*Compile-Log*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names "*Ibuffer*")
  (add-to-list 'same-window-buffer-names " *Ibuffer*")
  (message "done fixing pop-up-windows"))
(when (getenv "mep")
  ;;it is i
  (defconst alpha-alpha-p t)
  (require 'org)
  (my-settings)
  ;;necessary for large fonts
  (scroll-bar-mode -1))

;;;
;;;basic org features likely to affect many bug reports
;;;

(setq org-todo-keywords
      '((type  "NAKA(i)" "TODO(T)" "MAYBE(y)" "DOUBTFUL(l)"
         "|"
         "MOOT(m)")))

(setq org-agenda-files
      (mapcar #'file-truename
          ;;this is like a file-expand-regexp
          (directory-files (getenv "dorg")
                           ;;full pathname
                           t
                           ;;cloned indirect buffers create dot
                           ;;files
                           "^[^.#]+--a\\.org$")))

(setq org-agenda-window-setup 'current-window)

;;;
;;; do the actual thing being tested
;;;

;; *********** NEXT xyzzy test
;; SCHEDULED: <2016-11-07 Mon 17:00 .+1d>
;; make this be a date that is before real-time today
;; it should show up in agenda time grid
;; but it does not

(setq org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all nil)
(org-agenda-list nil nil 1)
;; (search-forward "xyzzy test")
(occur "xyzzy test")

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> ok, i have a new -Q minimal testcase, which is attached.  it explains
> how to run it at the top.
>
> the relevant part is at the bottom, so you could just copy that if you
> prefer to try your own setup instead.  it's 3 lines.
>
> the task is this:
>
> *********** NEXT xyzzy test
> SCHEDULED: <2016-11-07 Mon 17:00 .+1d>
> make this be a date that is before real-time today
> it should show up in agenda time grid
> but it does not

I can reproduce it, now.

> note that this time, (setq org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all nil).

This was the missing setting.

Notwithstanding the bug, I'm not sure to understand what is your use
case here. 

If a nil `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' treated time-stamps
with a repeater as regular time-stamp in the agenda, I could see a use
for that.

However, AFAIU, a nil `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' treats
a time-stamp with a repeater as its closest repeat (from today). It
makes little sense, in particular with schedules or deadlines.

So, what is wrong with `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' default
value?


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

On 11/13/16, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
> I can reproduce it, now.

thanks.

> If a nil `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' treated time-stamps
> with a repeater as regular time-stamp in the agenda, I could see a use
> for that.

not sure what you mean by this.

> However, AFAIU, a nil `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' treats
> a time-stamp with a repeater as its closest repeat (from today). It

which means today, right?  in org 9, this has changed.

> makes little sense, in particular with schedules or deadlines.

i don't get why.

> So, what is wrong with `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' default
> value?

t you mean?  if i am showing today and tomorrow, or the whole week, i
don't want to see the repeater show up on every day.

i just want it to show up today.  then i doneify it, and then i just
want it to show up tomorrow.  this is org 8 behavior for me.

not sure we're communicating accurately though.

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  And
ANYBODY can get it.

Denmark: free Karina Hansen NOW.
  UPDATE 2016-10: home, but not fully free

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> On 11/13/16, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:

>> If a nil `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' treated time-stamps
>> with a repeater as regular time-stamp in the agenda, I could see a use
>> for that.
>
> not sure what you mean by this.

I mean that a variable ignoring all repeaters in agenda is useful. It
means that, e.g.,

  <2016-11-13 Sun +1d>

is seen as

  <2016-11-13 Sun>

To put it differently, this would ignore repeaters until the task is
marked as done, which is repeaters original purpose.

However `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' seems to do something
different.

>> However, AFAIU, a nil `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' treats
>> a time-stamp with a repeater as its closest repeat (from today). It
>
> which means today, right?  in org 9, this has changed.

It doesn't mean necessarily today. Let's assume today is <2016-11-13 Sun>.
Now, consider, e.g.,

 <2016-11-09 Wed +3d>

Closest repeat in the future is <2016-11-15 Tue +3d>, which is neither
today nor tomorrow.

AFAIU, a nil `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' means that
nothing will appear on <2016-11-09 Wed>, but the task will be displayed
on <2016-11-15 Tue>, as if it was automatically marked as done without
my consent. Odd.

Note that I could understand the use for that. But there is worse:

   <2016-11-09 Wed .+3d>

In this case, I cannot possibly guess when the next repeat is going to
show, since it depends on the date at which the task is done. As
a consequence, treating the above as <2016-11-09 Wed +3d> is just plain
wrong IMO. Every repeat displayed in the agenda could be inaccurate.

>> makes little sense, in particular with schedules or deadlines.
>
> i don't get why.

Because schedules and deadlines are already repeated, somehow, in the
agenda. Today being <2016-11-13 Sun>, let's consider a task, not done
yet, with the following SCHEDULED time:

  <2016-11-09 Wed +1d>

I will get "Sched.4x". Yet closest repeat is today, so a nil
`org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' dumbly displays the task
without the "Sched.4x".

I lost the information the task started 4 days ago. If I mark it as
done, it still appears on today, without any feedback telling me it is
a new task that started 3 days ago, this time.

Why would I want that?

>> So, what is wrong with `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' default
>> value?
>
> t you mean?  if i am showing today and tomorrow, or the whole week, i
> don't want to see the repeater show up on every day.

OK, if you mainly use "+1d" repeaters, it can be a bit verbose. But then
again, if `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' ignored the repeat
altogether, it wouldn't fill up the agenda.

> i just want it to show up today.  then i doneify it, and then i just
> want it to show up tomorrow.  this is org 8 behavior for me.

Again, if `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' ignored the repeat
part, you would still have this with schedules and deadlines, as
exhibited above.

The only difference would be with plain time-stamps (no SCHEDULED nor
DEADLINE keyword). In Org 8,

  <2016-11-09 Wed +1d>

appears today, no matter what "today" means for the agenda. Ignoring the
repeater would not make it appear today unless today is <2016-11-09 Wed>,
of course.

> not sure we're communicating accurately though.

It is difficult to communicate since the subject is not very well
defined.

In a nutshell, I fail to see any use for this variable for schedules and
deadlines (except, perhaps, in the future part of the agenda). I also
fail to see any use for it in conjunction with ".+" and "++" repeaters.

I can be wrong, but I'd like to understand where.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

hi nicolas,

thanks for your reply.

some things that i expected from org x<=8 to occur are not
occurring on the dates i expected or in the time grid.

so i wonder:

  1) what changed in repeater agenda behavior from org 8 to
     org 9
     - at least one and possibly several
  2) where in the code the changes are so i can revert it in
     git until this is fixed.

of course, this might in principle be explained by a single
change (see below).

On 11/13/16, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
> I mean that a variable ignoring all repeaters in agenda is useful. It
> means that, e.g.,
>
>   <2016-11-13 Sun +1d>
>
> is seen as
>
>   <2016-11-13 Sun>
>
> To put it differently, this would ignore repeaters until the task is
> marked as done, which is repeaters original purpose.

ok, so you can see a need for a setting that implements
"show NONE except the timestamp date".  i.e. remove the
repeater aspect of repeaters.

i don't need such a feature, but it seems useful.

> However `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' seems to
> do something different.

yes, or at least different org 8 vs. org 9.

...

it is with .+ that i am noticing the anomalies in org 9.

i almost always use .+, so i am much more concerned about
them in my own case, not + or ++.

i was thinking of the mce i posted, but you were talking in
general terms.

>
> AFAIU, a nil `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' means that
> nothing will appear on <2016-11-09 Wed>, but the task will be displayed
> on <2016-11-15 Tue>, as if it was automatically marked as done without
> my consent. Odd.

so your understanding is that a repeat indicates having gone
through the done state if nil?

i think of it ALSO as a reminder, without cluttering up
every date.

>
> Note that I could understand the use for that. But there is worse:
>
>    <2016-11-09 Wed .+3d>
>
> In this case, I cannot possibly guess when the next repeat is going to
> show, since it depends on the date at which the task is done. As

it is STILL also a reminder that it needs doing at around
this frequency.

> a consequence, treating the above as <2016-11-09 Wed +3d> is just plain
> wrong IMO. Every repeat displayed in the agenda could be inaccurate.

iirc you indicated in an old email that you didn't want the
variable to apply to .+ or ++ .

i indicated to you that i found the usual org behavior (org
8 and previous) to be extremely useful.  i believe the op,
for whom you made the change, also queried whether the
change should be optional.

the release notes for org 9 did not indicate any change, but
we are seeing changes from org 8 to org 9.

so it seems possible that you made the change and that it
went through to org 9 and that that is what we are
witnessing.

does that sound possible to you?  which git delta do you
think is relevant?

===

i don't think the only purpose of an occurrence is to
indicate having gone through the done state.

===

i will try to explain.  i also tried to explain it in the
old email.  i hope i don't make a mistake.  i am fogged and
limited in typing.

i prefer the setting of showing today or on an upcoming date
(org 8 nil) to the extreme settings of showing only the
timestamp date or all (your nil or t).  this gives me just
enough information but not too much.

there is valuable information in the repeater interval.  it
says "this is about the frequency this should be done".  it
doesn't have to be exact.

===

sometimes people forget to doneify the previous instance.
sometimes they don't even DO the previous instance, but
still want reminding.

showing the repeater not on every date but on today or the
nearest into the future says "popping up again at about the
same frequency -- either you forgot to doneify or you did
not do it".

org 8 reminded me "you went through ANOTHER cycle without
doneifying this .+!".  even in the time grid if it is timed.

===

it's a reminder frequency that scales with the repeater
interval.  that's what i need.

===

another factor is appt, which activates when something is in
today's time grid.  org 9 breaks that.  if i did not do a
task. i don't get reminded by appt in org 9.

===

bubbling down in a sched nx line is not enough.  that
becomes decreasingly looked at.  your use case is different.
you probably always look at all of your sched. nx.

things that bubble down in sched. nx in org 9 could mean
"long repeater interval" OR "you didn't doneify it".  to me
those are totally unrelated things.

in org 8 if they mean the latter, i know that i will be
reminded in a more visible place.

===

i am incapable of doing many things, but i need .+
semantics.  i want to be reminded, but not on every
occurrence, just today or nearest into future.

the "pop up again, then bubble down, then pop up again"
behavior is exactly what i need.  then i doneify and it does
not show until .+nd.

so if possible, i'd like this customizable back to org 8
behavior.  it's throwing me off quite a bit and i no longer
can trust the repeaters in the agenda.

>
>>> makes little sense, in particular with schedules or deadlines.
>>
>> i don't get why.
>
> Because schedules and deadlines are already repeated, somehow, in the
> agenda. Today being <2016-11-13 Sun>, let's consider a task, not done

i disagree with this reasoning.  see below.

> yet, with the following SCHEDULED time:
>
>   <2016-11-09 Wed +1d>
>
> I will get "Sched.4x". Yet closest repeat is today, so a nil
> `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' dumbly displays the task
> without the "Sched.4x".
>
> I lost the information the task started 4 days ago. If I mark it as
> done, it still appears on today, without any feedback telling me it is
> a new task that started 3 days ago, this time.

but in org 9 i now lose the information about the frequency
of the interval.  i lost the reminders.

the traditional org behavior is a feature for me, not a bug.

unlike you, i don't care as much about the number of days
past due it is.  i get to see that when not near a repeater
occurrence.  and i can find out by looking at the timestamp.

> Why would I want that?
>
>>> So, what is wrong with `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' default
>>> value?
>>
>> t you mean?  if i am showing today and tomorrow, or the whole week, i
>> don't want to see the repeater show up on every day.
>
> OK, if you mainly use "+1d" repeaters, it can be a bit verbose. But then
> again, if `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' ignored the repeat
> altogether, it wouldn't fill up the agenda.

i use all sorts of .+ repeaters, not just .+1d.

nil would bubble down where i would not distinguish it from
long repeater interval.

my planning ability is broken, but i think org is also for
people with bad planning ability.

>
>> i just want it to show up today.  then i doneify it, and then i just
>> want it to show up tomorrow.  this is org 8 behavior for me.
>
> Again, if `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' ignored the repeat
> part, you would still have this with schedules and deadlines, as
> exhibited above.

ignoring the repeat part means it gets buried in sched nx,
and i do not get reminded.

to me that's a regression.

>
> The only difference would be with plain time-stamps (no SCHEDULED nor
> DEADLINE keyword). In Org 8,
>
>   <2016-11-09 Wed +1d>
>
> appears today, no matter what "today" means for the agenda. Ignoring the
> repeater would not make it appear today unless today is <2016-11-09 Wed>,
> of course.
>
>> not sure we're communicating accurately though.
>
> It is difficult to communicate since the subject is not very well
> defined.

agreed, which is why i posted my rfc to try to clarify.

>
> In a nutshell, I fail to see any use for this variable for schedules and
> deadlines (except, perhaps, in the future part of the agenda). I also
> fail to see any use for it in conjunction with ".+" and "++" repeaters.
>
> I can be wrong, but I'd like to understand where.

i tried.  i might have made a mistake.  please go easy on me
if so.

i believe this is a difference of use case.

>
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Nicolas Goaziou
>

samuel

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  And
ANYBODY can get it.

Denmark: free Karina Hansen NOW.
  UPDATE 2016-10: home, but not fully free

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> i tried.  i might have made a mistake.  please go easy on me
> if so.
>
> i believe this is a difference of use case.

I pushed a fix in maint branch. It is slightly different from Org 8.0,
in particular for "today" when no repeater is triggering. 

Please tell me if it suits your use case.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

thank you.

i will try it, but testing it thoroughly is problematic for me.  can
you describe?

also, i found that events exhibit the same bug, in case that is relevant.

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> i will try it, but testing it thoroughly is problematic for me.  can
> you describe?

What do you want me to describe? It should conform to what you were
suggesting, AFAIU. The only change is that for "today", when _no repeat
is active_, assuming `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' is nil,
the agenda will still display a reminder (e.g., Sched.2x) so you get
a chance to finish up late tasks. I don't think this was the case
before.

> also, i found that events exhibit the same bug, in case that is
> relevant.

Could you elaborate ? What is an "event"? An example would help.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

On 11/25/16, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
> suggesting, AFAIU. The only change is that for "today", when _no repeat
> is active_, assuming `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' is nil,
> the agenda will still display a reminder (e.g., Sched.2x) so you get
> a chance to finish up late tasks. I don't think this was the case
> before.

not sure what you mean by no repeat is active.

> Could you elaborate ? What is an "event"? An example would help.

event means bare timestamp.  some time ago it was suggested that we
have a new planning line entry, event, for those.

************* NOTE test event
<2015-06-03 Wed 12:00 .+1d>

does not show up in an agenda for today and tomorrow.

also,

***** NEXT [#A] soon end test
DEADLINE: <2016-12-01 Thu -30d>

does not show up either.  this deadline is only a few days away.

so i'm confused about non-repeaters also.

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> not sure what you mean by no repeat is active.

It means that either the scheduled date has no repeater or the repeat
doesn't happen "today" (e.g., "+2d" repeat starting yesterday).

> ************* NOTE test event
> <2015-06-03 Wed 12:00 .+1d>
>
> does not show up in an agenda for today and tomorrow.

I cannot reproduce it.

> ***** NEXT [#A] soon end test
> DEADLINE: <2016-12-01 Thu -30d>
>
> does not show up either.  this deadline is only a few days away.

I cannot reproduce it either.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

you recently fixed a few things from your patch.  dunno if it was
supposed to or not, but it seems to have cleared up a lot of bugs.

i found a lot of differences from org 8 to your patch, but only one
from org 8 to your recent fixes: a bare ts like <2016-11-23 Wed 12:00
.+1d> shows up twice in a 2-day span, but only showed up once in org
8.  i will post mce if needed.

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> you recently fixed a few things from your patch.  dunno if it was
> supposed to or not, but it seems to have cleared up a lot of bugs.
>
> i found a lot of differences from org 8 to your patch, but only one
> from org 8 to your recent fixes: a bare ts like <2016-11-23 Wed 12:00
> .+1d> shows up twice in a 2-day span, but only showed up once in org
> 8.  i will post mce if needed.

It sounds correct. With ".+1d" repeater, you expect to repeat the task
every day.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

On 11/27/16, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
> It sounds correct. With ".+1d" repeater, you expect to repeat the task
> every day.

when show all is nil, i expect the second of a two-day span to not
show the repeater if the first shows it.  org 8 seems more correct to
me.

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  And
ANYBODY can get it.

Denmark: free Karina Hansen NOW.
  UPDATE 2016-10: home, but not fully free

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> when show all is nil, i expect the second of a two-day span to not
> show the repeater if the first shows it.  org 8 seems more correct to
> me.

I pushed a few more fixed in plain time-stamps and deadlines. Please
report if you find anything suspicious.

Regards,

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

On 11/27/16, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
> I pushed a few more fixed in plain time-stamps and deadlines. Please
> report if you find anything suspicious.

please try this:

  SCHEDULED: <2016-09-17 Sat .+2d>

emacs -Q, with a 2-day span and show-all nil.

in org 8:

  1] it shows today
  2] it shows 2x

which is perfect for my use case.

in org 9:

  1] it shows on both days
  2] it shows 72x

re 1, dunno if this was intended?

re 2, org 9 is trying to do its counting from the original timestamp
date.  i can understand the reasoning here, but do not want it for my
use case.

72x gets buried.  it's a sudden pop up then a sudden drop off.  i want
a gradual bubbling down like in org 8.  a .+30d repeater should show
today, then tomorrow it should show 2x, then the next day it should
show 3x.

org 8 is nicer for showing the fact that 2d ago you were reminded to
do it, and maybe did it but did not doneify or maybe were not able to
do it.  it bubbles down slowly.

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> On 11/27/16, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
>> I pushed a few more fixed in plain time-stamps and deadlines. Please
>> report if you find anything suspicious.
>
> please try this:
>
>   SCHEDULED: <2016-09-17 Sat .+2d>
>
> emacs -Q, with a 2-day span and show-all nil.

[...]

> in org 9:
>
>   1] it shows on both days
>   2] it shows 72x
>
> re 1, dunno if this was intended?

It is.

It shows first repeat. I assume you tested that yesterday, so you got
the repeat for today. Since the repeat didn't trigger "today" (which is
actually yesterday), it also displays a reminder for the scheduled item
there.

So, you have "72x" on "today" and a new repeat on the next day.

> re 2, org 9 is trying to do its counting from the original timestamp
> date.  i can understand the reasoning here, but do not want it for my
> use case.

It is, per 1-year old commit (3072cb28e8627066f465f1a4af85da88135d0549).
Details are given here:
<http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/101884>.

> 72x gets buried.  it's a sudden pop up then a sudden drop off.  i want
> a gradual bubbling down like in org 8.  a .+30d repeater should show
> today, then tomorrow it should show 2x, then the next day it should
> show 3x.
>
> org 8 is nicer for showing the fact that 2d ago you were reminded to
> do it, and maybe did it but did not doneify or maybe were not able to
> do it.  it bubbles down slowly.

It's difficult to solve both problems. In any case, this will not happen
in Org 9.0.

I think the main problem is that you put too many things behind
`org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all'. Its name is misleading.
I think we need a new variable, or to change this one, to have both
behaviours possible. Suggestions (and docstrings) are welcome, we can
implement them in master branch.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

On 11/28/16, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
> It shows first repeat. I assume you tested that yesterday, so you got
> the repeat for today. Since the repeat didn't trigger "today" (which is
> actually yesterday), it also displays a reminder for the scheduled item
> there.

thanks for the explanation.  the idea is that org 9 is using the
previously scheduled section as a complete list and that it did not
trigger on the first day and did on the second, and show-all nil in
org 9 does not refer to the scheduled section but only to the repeater
instances?

> It is, per 1-year old commit (3072cb28e8627066f465f1a4af85da88135d0549).

i can't keep up with master, but probably commented on that thread.

> I think we need a new variable, or to change this one, to have both
> behaviours possible. Suggestions (and docstrings) are welcome, we can
> implement them in master branch.

the issues seem to be:

  1] 72x vs. 2x
  2] duplicate in previously scheduled vs. not

1 is critical as it affects sorting.  perhaps
org-agenda-repeater-previously-scheduled-counts?  values could include
'from-timestamp and 'from-previous-instance.
the latter is org 8.

2 is not critical.  i might be able to get used to having a complete
scheduled section.

[dunno if previously-scheduled is a clear name.  i call it "nokori"
from the japanese for "remaining" merely to be unambiguous [i don't
care if it's in sumerian as long as it's unambiguous] but i don't
suppose that would work for most people.]

i hope this can get into maint, but if not i hope i can at least carry
along a patch from master to maint if it is only fixed in master.
[i'd be concerned that a patch would invite merge conflicts pretty
frequently.  those tend to cause confusion and stress for me.]

by the way there is a bug in org 9 where org-scheduled face is
erroneously used instead of org-scheduled-previously.

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

by the way, the echo area already shows some information on olpath.
it could also show the number of days since the last repeat instance,
and the number of days since the timestamp date.

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[cesar mena]

hello guys,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> by the way there is a bug in org 9 where org-scheduled face is
> erroneously used instead of org-scheduled-previously.

as pointed out by samuel, commit
69ec6258b65a5d317f0dcb275ec2d5a90f72f191 introduced a bug where a
previously scheduled item in the agenda does not get the
org-scheduled-previously face.

cheers,
-cm

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

cesar mena <cmena@pobox.com> writes:

> hello guys,
>
> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> by the way there is a bug in org 9 where org-scheduled face is
>> erroneously used instead of org-scheduled-previously.
>
> as pointed out by samuel, commit
> 69ec6258b65a5d317f0dcb275ec2d5a90f72f191 introduced a bug where a
> previously scheduled item in the agenda does not get the
> org-scheduled-previously face.

Fixed. Thank you.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[cesar mena]

Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:

> Hello,
>
> cesar mena <cmena@pobox.com> writes:
>
>> hello guys,
>>
>> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> by the way there is a bug in org 9 where org-scheduled face is
>>> erroneously used instead of org-scheduled-previously.
>>
>> as pointed out by samuel, commit
>> 69ec6258b65a5d317f0dcb275ec2d5a90f72f191 introduced a bug where a
>> previously scheduled item in the agenda does not get the
>> org-scheduled-previously face.
>
> Fixed. Thank you.
>
> Regards,
>
> -- 
> Nicolas Goaziou

confirmed. thanks.

best,
-cm

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

thank you.

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> thanks for the explanation.  the idea is that org 9 is using the
> previously scheduled section as a complete list and that it did not
> trigger on the first day and did on the second, and show-all nil in
> org 9 does not refer to the scheduled section but only to the repeater
> instances?

I'm not sure to understand.

Anyway, I pushed a change to maint that should solve the "72x vs. 2x"
issue.

>> I think we need a new variable, or to change this one, to have both
>> behaviours possible. Suggestions (and docstrings) are welcome, we can
>> implement them in master branch.
>
> the issues seem to be:
>
>   1] 72x vs. 2x
>   2] duplicate in previously scheduled vs. not
>
> 1 is critical as it affects sorting.  perhaps
> org-agenda-repeater-previously-scheduled-counts?  values could include
> 'from-timestamp and 'from-previous-instance.
> the latter is org 8.
>
> 2 is not critical.  i might be able to get used to having a complete
> scheduled section.
>
> [dunno if previously-scheduled is a clear name.  i call it "nokori"
> from the japanese for "remaining" merely to be unambiguous [i don't
> care if it's in sumerian as long as it's unambiguous] but i don't
> suppose that would work for most people.]

I implemented the following variables in master:

- `org-agenda-show-future-repeats'
- `org-agenda-prefer-last-repeat'

and removed `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all', which was
ambiguous.

Basically, IIUC, setting `org-agenda-show-future-repeats' to nil and
`org-agenda-prefer-last-repeat' to t should reproduce exactly the
behaviour of Org 8.

Also, the combination of the two variables above gives more flexibility.

Feedback welcome.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[cesar mena]

hello,

Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:

> Hello,
>
> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> thanks for the explanation.  the idea is that org 9 is using the
>> previously scheduled section as a complete list and that it did not
>> trigger on the first day and did on the second, and show-all nil in
>> org 9 does not refer to the scheduled section but only to the repeater
>> instances?
>
> I'm not sure to understand.
>
> Anyway, I pushed a change to maint that should solve the "72x vs. 2x"
> issue.

just making sure i'm getting this.

in maint, if org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all is nil we get
72x. if it is non nil we get 2x. i'm in the 72x camp, so i don't need to
do anything.

when master comes around org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all will go
away. to get 72x make sure that org-agenda-prefer-last-repeat is nil (?)

close?

thanks.

-cm


>>> I think we need a new variable, or to change this one, to have both
>>> behaviours possible. Suggestions (and docstrings) are welcome, we can
>>> implement them in master branch.
>>
>> the issues seem to be:
>>
>>   1] 72x vs. 2x
>>   2] duplicate in previously scheduled vs. not
>>
>> 1 is critical as it affects sorting.  perhaps
>> org-agenda-repeater-previously-scheduled-counts?  values could include
>> 'from-timestamp and 'from-previous-instance.
>> the latter is org 8.
>>
>> 2 is not critical.  i might be able to get used to having a complete
>> scheduled section.
>>
>> [dunno if previously-scheduled is a clear name.  i call it "nokori"
>> from the japanese for "remaining" merely to be unambiguous [i don't
>> care if it's in sumerian as long as it's unambiguous] but i don't
>> suppose that would work for most people.]
>
> I implemented the following variables in master:
>
> - `org-agenda-show-future-repeats'
> - `org-agenda-prefer-last-repeat'
>
> and removed `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all', which was
> ambiguous.
>
> Basically, IIUC, setting `org-agenda-show-future-repeats' to nil and
> `org-agenda-prefer-last-repeat' to t should reproduce exactly the
> behaviour of Org 8.
>
> Also, the combination of the two variables above gives more flexibility.
>
> Feedback welcome.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> -- 
> Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

cesar mena <cmena@pobox.com> writes:

> just making sure i'm getting this.
>
> in maint, if org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all is nil we get
> 72x. if it is non nil we get 2x. i'm in the 72x camp, so i don't need to
> do anything.

It is the opposite. 

  `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' t   -> 72x
  `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' nil -> 2x

Default value is t, so you don't need to do anything.

> when master comes around org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all will go
> away. to get 72x make sure that org-agenda-prefer-last-repeat is nil (?)

72x is the default behaviour in both maint and master. IOW
`org-agenda-prefer-last-repeat' is nil by default in master.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[cesar mena]

Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:

> Hello,
>
> cesar mena <cmena@pobox.com> writes:
>
>> just making sure i'm getting this.
>>
>> in maint, if org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all is nil we get
>> 72x. if it is non nil we get 2x. i'm in the 72x camp, so i don't need to
>> do anything.
>
> It is the opposite. 
>
>   `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' t   -> 72x
>   `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all' nil -> 2x
>
> Default value is t, so you don't need to do anything.
>
>> when master comes around org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all will go
>> away. to get 72x make sure that org-agenda-prefer-last-repeat is nil (?)
>
> 72x is the default behaviour in both maint and master. IOW
> `org-agenda-prefer-last-repeat' is nil by default in master.
>
> Regards,
>
> -- 
> Nicolas Goaziou

ok; this is perfect, whilst allowing users to keep the org 8 (2x)
behaviour.

thank you again nicolas.

-cm

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

On 12/3/16, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
> Anyway, I pushed a change to maint that should solve the "72x vs. 2x"
> issue.

thank you!

i am glad i do not have to switch to master to get 2x.

> I implemented the following variables in master:
>
> - `org-agenda-show-future-repeats'
> - `org-agenda-prefer-last-repeat'
>
> and removed `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all', which was
> ambiguous.

> Feedback welcome.

the only difference i found between 8 and 9maint, running today, with
show all set to nil, is:

  SCHEDULED: <2016-10-17 Mon .+7d>

which shows today as 7x and tomorrow in 9maint, but only tomorrow in
8.  presumably 8 considers the 7x a duplicate but 9 does not.

with the new variables in master, i found that master is the same as 8.

thus, master can be set to be exactly like 8, while maint is slightly different.

===

i think the variables and names and docstrings are very good.

the only feature that seems to be missing from 8 and 9maint that might
be needed in 9master is a list of strings for todo kw that should show
future repeats.  thus you could say that NOTE does not show future
repeats, but NEXTREPEAT does.

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> the only feature that seems to be missing from 8 and 9maint that might
> be needed in 9master is a list of strings for todo kw that should show
> future repeats.  thus you could say that NOTE does not show future
> repeats, but NEXTREPEAT does.

I thought about this, but `org-agenda-show-future-repeats' has three
possible value, which complicates introducing TODO keywords. IOW, it
would need to be an alist, with a catch-all key yet to be defined...

I'd rather keep the variable simple and not implement it if there's no
real need for the feature.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[cesar mena]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2599 bytes --]

hello list, nicolas, samuel,

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 2:34 AM, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 11/27/16, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
>>> I pushed a few more fixed in plain time-stamps and deadlines. Please
>>> report if you find anything suspicious.
>>
>> please try this:
>>
>>   SCHEDULED: <2016-09-17 Sat .+2d>
>>
>> emacs -Q, with a 2-day span and show-all nil.
>
> [...]
>
>> in org 9:
>>
>>   1] it shows on both days
>>   2] it shows 72x
>>
>> re 1, dunno if this was intended?
>
> It is.
>
> It shows first repeat. I assume you tested that yesterday, so you got
> the repeat for today. Since the repeat didn't trigger "today" (which is
> actually yesterday), it also displays a reminder for the scheduled item
> there.
>
> So, you have "72x" on "today" and a new repeat on the next day.
>
>> re 2, org 9 is trying to do its counting from the original timestamp
>> date.  i can understand the reasoning here, but do not want it for my
>> use case.
>
> It is, per 1-year old commit (3072cb28e8627066f465f1a4af85da88135d0549).
> Details are given here:
> <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/101884>.

right the rationale there is that it would be misleading to show 2x
when you really haven't "doneify" the task for more than 72 days. but,
alas, this is what org 8 does.

>> 72x gets buried.  it's a sudden pop up then a sudden drop off.  i want
>> a gradual bubbling down like in org 8.  a .+30d repeater should show
>> today, then tomorrow it should show 2x, then the next day it should
>> show 3x.
>>
>> org 8 is nicer for showing the fact that 2d ago you were reminded to
>> do it, and maybe did it but did not doneify or maybe were not able to
>> do it.  it bubbles down slowly.
>
> It's difficult to solve both problems. In any case, this will not happen
> in Org 9.0.
>
> I think the main problem is that you put too many things behind
> `org-agenda-repeating-timestamp-show-all'. Its name is misleading.
> I think we need a new variable, or to change this one, to have both
> behaviours possible. Suggestions (and docstrings) are welcome, we can
> implement them in master branch.

i generate a file for the year with "events", as samuel describes it,
when i need that kind of scheduling. this has the advantage of having
the "bubbling" effect, showing all the ones not marked done as
separate entries, and the ability to have notes per event. i'm
attaching the script i use to generate it ... i pipe the output into
an agenda accessible file. samuel maybe this is useful?

[-- Attachment #2: genevents --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 900 bytes --]

#!/usr/bin/python3

import datetime

today = datetime.date(2016, 1, 1)
end = datetime.date(2016, 12, 31)
oneday = datetime.timedelta(1)

def dayofweek(x):
    if x.isoweekday() is 1:
        return 'Mon'
    if x.isoweekday() is 2:
        return 'Tue'
    if x.isoweekday() is 3:
        return 'Wed'
    if x.isoweekday() is 4:
        return 'Thu'
    if x.isoweekday() is 5:
        return 'Fri'
    if x.isoweekday() is 6:
        return 'Sat'
    if x.isoweekday() is 7:
        return 'Sun'
    raise Exception()

def daterange():
    cur = today - oneday
    while cur < end:
        cur += oneday
        yield cur

tasks = ('test',)

print('* tasks')
# print('  :PROPERTIES:')
# print('  :CATEGORY: H')
# print('  :END:')
for d in daterange():
    for t in tasks:
        print("** TODO %s (%s)" % (t, dayofweek(d).lower()))
        print("   SCHEDULED: <%s %s>" % (d, dayofweek(d)))

    

Re: [bug] timed repeater shows up in wrong place

[Samuel Wales]

On 11/28/16, cesar mena <cmena@pobox.com> wrote:
> right the rationale there is that it would be misleading to show 2x
> when you really haven't "doneify" the task for more than 72 days. but,
> alas, this is what org 8 does.

misleading for your use case, but not misleading for mine. :]

> i generate a file for the year with "events", as samuel describes it,

thanks for the idea, but this would not work for my use case.