Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB

Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB

[Kaushal Modi]

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Hello,

Today I realized that Org table columns without width cookies get
auto-shrunk on hitting TAB:

As far as I remember, the cookie-less columns did not shrink on TAB that
way, when this feature got introduced.

Here's a minimal example:

=====
#+title: Width cookies present only on columns that need to be shrunk
#+startup: shrink

|----------+----------------------------------------------------------|
|          | <15>                                                     |
| Column 1 | Column 2                                                 |
|----------+----------------------------------------------------------|
|        1 | Some content that's longer than the column width cookie. |
|----------+----------------------------------------------------------|
=====

It looks like this on startup:

[image: image.png]
Upon hitting TAB with point in row 1, col 1, it becomes:

[image: image.png]

C-h c TAB shows that <tab> is bound to org-cycle (as expected).

Org version (master branch): Org mode version 9.1.6
(release_9.1.6-463-g551d2f @
/home/kmodi/usr_local/apps/6/emacs/emacs-26/share/emacs/site-lisp/org/) --
https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/commit/551d2f1fe7ad797806ed51c63d45553ef1d6a777

Emacs version: 26.0.91

I believe this is a bug. Can this please be fixed?
-- 

Kaushal Modi

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Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> writes:

> Today I realized that Org table columns without width cookies get
> auto-shrunk on hitting TAB:
>
> As far as I remember, the cookie-less columns did not shrink on TAB that
> way, when this feature got introduced.
>
> Here's a minimal example:
>
> =====
>
> #+title: Width cookies present only on columns that need to be shrunk
> #+startup: shrink
>
> |----------+----------------------------------------------------------|
> |          | <15>                                                     |
> | Column 1 | Column 2                                                 |
> |----------+----------------------------------------------------------|
> |        1 | Some content that's longer than the column width cookie. |
> |----------+----------------------------------------------------------|
> =====
>
> It looks like this on startup:
>
> [image: image.png]
> Upon hitting TAB with point in row 1, col 1, it becomes:
>
> [image: image.png]

For the record, I cannot see images in a mail.

Anyway, this is fixed. Thank you.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 12:50 PM Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
wrote:

>
> For the record, I cannot see images in a mail.
>

OK, I will upload the images somewhere and then paste the links next time.
Does your email client need to be configured to show images?

Because they show up here:
http://lists.gnu.org/r/emacs-orgmode/2018-02/msg00231.html


> Anyway, this is fixed. Thank you.
>

Thanks! Will try it out.
-- 

Kaushal Modi

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Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 12:50 PM Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
wrote:

>
> Anyway, this is fixed. Thank you.
>

I confirm the fix. Thanks!
-- 

Kaushal Modi

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Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> writes:

> OK, I will upload the images somewhere and then paste the links next
> time.
>
> Does your email client need to be configured to show images?

My MUA is Gnus, configured to not display images, because I usually do
not want to see them.

Just to be clear, my remark wasn't a "please do otherwise" message, but
rather "don't bother". Of course, this is ultimately your call.

Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB

[Eric S Fraga]

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On Wednesday, 14 Feb 2018 at 20:19, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
> Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> OK, I will upload the images somewhere and then paste the links next
>> time.
>>
>> Does your email client need to be configured to show images?
>
> My MUA is Gnus, configured to not display images, because I usually do
> not want to see them.

My MUA is Gnus as well.  Images don't appear initially for me either but
switching to the HTML part shows them ("b", gnus-article-view-part).  I
am saying this for Kaushal's benefit: your email was okay as such but
many of us will not see the images by default.

-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.1.6-118-g134243

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Feature request: shrink according to alignment (was Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB)

[Eric S Fraga]

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On Wednesday, 14 Feb 2018 at 15:58, Kaushal Modi wrote:
> #+title: Width cookies present only on columns that need to be shrunk
> #+startup: shrink

For Nicolas or anybody else, I have a feature request.  Would it be
possible to shrink columns taking into account the alignment of the
column?  For instance, I have a right aligned column which, when shrunk
to a given width, appears empty except for long entries.  It would be
nice if the shrinking happened from the left in this case.

Thanks,
eric

-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.1.6-118-g134243

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Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Thu, Feb 15, 2018, 4:25 AM Eric S Fraga <esflists@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, 14 Feb 2018 at 20:19, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
>

> My MUA is Gnus, configured to not display images, because I usually do
> > not want to see them.
>
> My MUA is Gnus as well.  Images don't appear initially for me either but
> switching to the HTML part shows them ("b", gnus-article-view-part).  I
> am saying this for Kaushal's benefit: your email was okay as such but
> many of us will not see the images by default.
>

That's good to know. So no inline images from now on then :)

> --

Kaushal Modi

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Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB

[Eric S Fraga]

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On Thursday, 15 Feb 2018 at 12:05, Kaushal Modi wrote:
> That's good to know. So no inline images from now on then :)

Not really the message I was trying to convey... actually, I'm not sure
what message I was indeed trying to convey. ;-)

I like gnus because my emails are uncluttered but I still have the
functionality to display HTML messages, should I need to.
-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.1.6-118-g134243

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Re: Feature request: shrink according to alignment (was Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB)

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Eric S Fraga <esflists@gmail.com> writes:

> For Nicolas or anybody else, I have a feature request.  Would it be
> possible to shrink columns taking into account the alignment of the
> column?  For instance, I have a right aligned column which, when shrunk
> to a given width, appears empty except for long entries.  It would be
> nice if the shrinking happened from the left in this case.

You would only see the end of the contents, which, in many situations,
is only marginally better than seeing nothing at all.

Also, this would be optimal for centered columns either.

I have the feeling that it would some trouble for little benefit.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Feature request: shrink according to alignment (was Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB)

[Julius Dittmar]

Am 15.02.2018 um 14:44 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou:
> Hello,
> 
> Eric S Fraga <esflists@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> For Nicolas or anybody else, I have a feature request.  Would it be
>> possible to shrink columns taking into account the alignment of the
>> column?  For instance, I have a right aligned column which, when shrunk
>> to a given width, appears empty except for long entries.  It would be
>> nice if the shrinking happened from the left in this case.
> 
> You would only see the end of the contents, which, in many situations,
> is only marginally better than seeing nothing at all.
> 
> Also, this would be optimal for centered columns either.
> 
> I have the feeling that it would some trouble for little benefit.

I think what the OP really would like is something like this: remove
leading whitespace until everything can be displayed or no more leading
whitespace remains, then truncate at the end if necessary. That way as
much meaningful contents as possible is displayed. At least that's what
I would wish in this situation.

Julius

Re: Feature request: shrink according to alignment (was Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB)

[Eric S Fraga]

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On Thursday, 15 Feb 2018 at 14:44, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
> I have the feeling that it would some trouble for little benefit.

Probably!  :-)  Thanks for considering it in any case.
-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.1.6-118-g134243

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Re: Feature request: shrink according to alignment (was Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB)

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Julius Dittmar <Julius.Dittmar@gmx.de> writes:

> I think what the OP really would like is something like this: remove
> leading whitespace until everything can be displayed or no more leading
> whitespace remains, then truncate at the end if necessary. That way as
> much meaningful contents as possible is displayed. At least that's what
> I would wish in this situation.

I understand the idea, but the implementation seems tricky. It means Org
may sometimes have to hide characters on both sides of a field. and
sometimes not. It doesn't sound visually appealing.

I may be wide off the mark, tho. Do you have some specifications in
mind, or at least some examples?

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Feature request: shrink according to alignment (was Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB)

[Julius Dittmar]

Am 19.02.2018 um 10:58 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou:
> Julius Dittmar <Julius.Dittmar@gmx.de> writes:
>> I think what the OP really would like is something like this: remove
>> leading whitespace until everything can be displayed or no more leading
>> whitespace remains, then truncate at the end if necessary. That way as
>> much meaningful contents as possible is displayed. At least that's what
>> I would wish in this situation.
> 
> I understand the idea, but the implementation seems tricky. It means Org
> may sometimes have to hide characters on both sides of a field. and
> sometimes not. It doesn't sound visually appealing.
> 
> I may be wide off the mark, tho. Do you have some specifications in
> mind, or at least some examples?

Up to the moment I read the original post I wasn't even aware any table
cell width restricting syntax exists, so I don't have any full-fledged
examples. Not even half-working ones.

What I think this was about: Assume, the following table is set up for
right-aligned output (that's one of the things I don't know how to do,
but that's fine with me):

| a very long entry which enforces a long table cell |
|                            a moderately long entry |
|                                      a short entry |

Assume further that this table is to be displayed showing only 19
characters. As I understand the original post, the outcome at the moment
would be something like :


| a very long entr... |
|                 ... |
|                 ... |

What I would prefer is:

| a very long entr... |
| a moderately lon... |
|       a short entry |

This does not really mean cutting on both ends, at least not more than
org already does. Org already does add or subtract leading or trailing
whitespace as needed. The change I'd love would spell something like
"first remove all whitespace, then cut (at the end) to length if needed,
and then add whitespace to archieve the defined alignment".

Regards,
Julius

Re: Feature request: shrink according to alignment (was Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB)

[Eric S Fraga]

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On Monday, 19 Feb 2018 at 12:29, Julius Dittmar wrote:

[...]

> This does not really mean cutting on both ends, at least not more than
> org already does. Org already does add or subtract leading or trailing
> whitespace as needed. The change I'd love would spell something like
> "first remove all whitespace, then cut (at the end) to length if needed,
> and then add whitespace to archieve the defined alignment".

Actually, I would be happy with simply removing leading whitespace
before truncating to fit the shrunken width...  I am not actually
bothered about the alignment when columns are shrunk; it's about
information content rather than style as my use case is for tables that
are too wide for the working comfortably with the current window width.

thanks,
eric

-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.1.6-352-g92176c

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Re: Feature request: shrink according to alignment (was Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB)

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Julius Dittmar <Julius.Dittmar@gmx.de> writes:

> What I think this was about: Assume, the following table is set up for
> right-aligned output (that's one of the things I don't know how to do,
> but that's fine with me):
>
> | a very long entry which enforces a long table cell |
> |                            a moderately long entry |
> |                                      a short entry |
>
> Assume further that this table is to be displayed showing only 19
> characters. As I understand the original post, the outcome at the moment
> would be something like :
>
>
> | a very long entr... |
> |                 ... |
> |                 ... |

For the record, it is more like

  | a very long entr…|
  |                 …|
  |                 …|


> What I would prefer is:
>
> | a very long entr... |
> | a moderately lon... |
> |       a short entry |

So the narrowing is done field wise and not column wise. If you are in
the last cell, you cannot possibly tell the column is narrowed unless
you check other levels.

> This does not really mean cutting on both ends, at least not more than
> org already does. Org already does add or subtract leading or trailing
> whitespace as needed.

There is a misunderstanding here. One of the motivation of the current
implementation of columns narrowing is to _not change the buffer_.  It
hides characters, but never removes them.

So, if you want to remove characters on the right, you need to hide them
somehow. So, I still think you would need to narrow on both sides.
I have the gut feeling this is not very practical.

I agree right-aligned -- and center-aligned -- fields are not perfect,
but I cannot think of a good design for these at the moment.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Feature request: shrink according to alignment (was Re: Org table columns without width cookies get shrunk on TAB)

[Julius Dittmar]

Am 21.02.2018 um 12:45 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou:
> I agree right-aligned -- and center-aligned -- fields are not perfect,
> but I cannot think of a good design for these at the moment.

OK. I can live with that.

Julius