Export as HTML

Export as HTML

[Sébastien Vauban]

Hello,

Trying to use free CSS templates for some Web site, I have layout problems
with the current export to HTML, as a first `<div id="content">' is hard-coded
into the resulting Web page.

Could you remove that line, and its closing tag from `(insert
"\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n"))' (in function `org-export-as-html') so that
we have a completely naked BODY, that the user can fill at its own freedom via
the preamble/postamble?

Thanks,
  Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban


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Re: Export as HTML

[roc lee]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 887 bytes --]

in org-exp.el, line 3858:
    (insert "<div id=\"table-of-contents\">\n")

2009/3/30 Sébastien Vauban <zthjwsqqafhv@spammotel.com>

> Hello,
>
> Trying to use free CSS templates for some Web site, I have layout problems
> with the current export to HTML, as a first `<div id="content">' is
> hard-coded
> into the resulting Web page.
>
> Could you remove that line, and its closing tag from `(insert
> "\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n"))' (in function `org-export-as-html') so
> that
> we have a completely naked BODY, that the user can fill at its own freedom
> via
> the preamble/postamble?
>
> Thanks,
>  Seb
>
> --
> Sébastien Vauban
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1403 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 204 bytes --]

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Re: Export as HTML

[roc lee]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1180 bytes --]

2009/3/30 roc lee <roc.lee.80@gmail.com>

> in org-exp.el, line 3858:
>     (insert "<div id=\"table-of-contents\">\n")


>
> 2009/3/30 Sébastien Vauban <zthjwsqqafhv@spammotel.com>
>
> Hello,
>>
>> Trying to use free CSS templates for some Web site, I have layout problems
>> with the current export to HTML, as a first `<div id="content">' is
>> hard-coded
>> into the resulting Web page.
>>
>> Could you remove that line, and its closing tag from `(insert
>> "\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n"))' (in function `org-export-as-html') so
>> that
>> we have a completely naked BODY, that the user can fill at its own freedom
>> via
>> the preamble/postamble?
>
>
Sorry for not throughly understanding your question.
In first sight, I think you mean the "table-of-contents".

There is no such a div on my exported files. The version I am using is
6.17a.


>>
>> Thanks,
>>  Seb
>>
>> --
>> Sébastien Vauban
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>
>

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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 204 bytes --]

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Re: Export as HTML

[Sébastien Vauban]

Hi Roc Lee,

Roc lee wrote:
> 2009/3/30 roc lee <roc.lee.80-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
>>> Could you remove that line, and its closing tag from `(insert
>>> "\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n"))' (in function `org-export-as-html') so
>>> that we have a completely naked BODY, that the user can fill at its own
>>> freedom via the preamble/postamble?
>
> There is no such a div on my exported files. The version I am using is
> 6.17a.

See lines 3584:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
<div id=\"content\">
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

and line 4205:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(insert "\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n"))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

in my Org-mode version 6.24trans.

Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban


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Re: Export as HTML

[Carsten Dominik]

On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Sébastien Vauban wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Trying to use free CSS templates for some Web site, I have layout  
> problems
> with the current export to HTML, as a first `<div id="content">' is  
> hard-coded
> into the resulting Web page.
>
> Could you remove that line, and its closing tag from `(insert
> "\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n"))' (in function `org-export-as-html')  
> so that
> we have a completely naked BODY, that the user can fill at its own  
> freedom via
> the preamble/postamble?

Why and how is this <div> limiting what you can do?
It was recently introduce precisely to aid CSS formatting
of the entire body.

Sebasian (Rose) and Richard, you helped making getting
the outer div into place, would you care to comment?

- Carsten

Re: Export as HTML

[Sébastien Vauban]

Hi Carsten,

Carsten Dominik wrote:
> On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Sébastien Vauban wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Trying to use free CSS templates for some Web site, I have layout problems
>> with the current export to HTML, as a first `<div id="content">' is
>> hard-coded
>> into the resulting Web page.
>>
>> Could you remove that line, and its closing tag from `(insert
>> "\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n"))' (in function `org-export-as-html') so that
>> we have a completely naked BODY, that the user can fill at its own freedom
>> via
>> the preamble/postamble?
>
> Why and how is this <div> limiting what you can do?

I took a free CSS template at:

    http://www.free-css.com/free-css-templates/page2/minisite-pro.php

If I want to use it without modifying it, I have to follow such a construct
(taken from their live demo):

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
<body>
<div id="container">
  <div id="head">

    <h1 id="logo"><a href="/" title="Free CSS">Free CSS</a></h1>
    <p id="quote">Free CSS Templates, CSS Layouts &amp; More!</p>
    <ul id="topnavi">
      <li><a href="http://www.free-css.com/" title="Free CSS">Home</a></li>
      <li><a href="/contact-us.php" title="Contact Free CSS">Contact Us</a></li>
      <li><a href="/advertise.php" title="Advertise With Free CSS">Advertise</a></li>

      <li><a href="/recommend-us.php" rel="popup console 500 520 noicon" title="Recommend Free CSS">Recommend Us</a></li>
      <li><a href="/submit.php" title="Submit to Free CSS">Submit</a></li>
      <li class="last"><a href="/search.php" title="Search Free CSS">Search</a></li>
    </ul>
  </div>
  <div id="superbanner">
    <script src="/assets/templates/free-templates/scripts/buysellads_sb.js" type="text/javascript"></script>

  </div>
  <div id="breadcrumb">
    <ul>
<li class="first">You Are Here</li>
<li>&#187;</li>
<li><a href="/" title="Free CSS">Free CSS</a></li>
<li>&#187;</li>
<li><a href="/free-css-templates.php" title="Free CSS Templates">Free CSS Templates</a></li>
<li>&#187;</li>
<li><a href="/free-css-templates/page2.php" title="CSS Website Templates Page 2">CSS Templates Page 2</a></li>

<li>&#187;</li>
<li class="current"><a href="/free-css-templates/page2/minisite-pro.php" title="Minisite Pro Template">Minisite Pro</a></li>
</ul>
  </div>
<div id="content">
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Having <div id="content"> directly under the BODY tag messes up everything.


> It was recently introduce precisely to aid CSS formatting
> of the entire body.

For me, it seems easier to have a completely naked body, by default, and let
the user decide, follow or copy a guideline to implement the nice CSS he wants
to.

Currently, I had to modify the source code to get the same effect as the one I
want.


> Sebasian (Rose) and Richard, you helped making getting
> the outer div into place, would you care to comment?

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban


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Re: Re: Export as HTML

[roc lee]

2009/3/30 Sébastien Vauban <zthjwsqqafhv@spammotel.com>
>
> Hi Carsten,
>
> Carsten Dominik wrote:
> > On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Sébastien Vauban wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> Trying to use free CSS templates for some Web site, I have layout problems
> >> with the current export to HTML, as a first `<div id="content">' is
> >> hard-coded
> >> into the resulting Web page.
> >>
> >> Could you remove that line, and its closing tag from `(insert
> >> "\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n"))' (in function `org-export-as-html') so that
> >> we have a completely naked BODY, that the user can fill at its own freedom
> >> via
> >> the preamble/postamble?
> >
> > Why and how is this <div> limiting what you can do?
>
> I took a free CSS template at:
>
>    http://www.free-css.com/free-css-templates/page2/minisite-pro.php
>
> If I want to use it without modifying it, I have to follow such a construct
> (taken from their live demo):
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> <body>
> <div id="container">
>  <div id="head">
>
>    <h1 id="logo"><a href="/" title="Free CSS">Free CSS</a></h1>
>    <p id="quote">Free CSS Templates, CSS Layouts &amp; More!</p>
>    <ul id="topnavi">
>      <li><a href="http://www.free-css.com/" title="Free CSS">Home</a></li>
>      <li><a href="/contact-us.php" title="Contact Free CSS">Contact Us</a></li>
>      <li><a href="/advertise.php" title="Advertise With Free CSS">Advertise</a></li>
>
>      <li><a href="/recommend-us.php" rel="popup console 500 520 noicon" title="Recommend Free CSS">Recommend Us</a></li>
>      <li><a href="/submit.php" title="Submit to Free CSS">Submit</a></li>
>      <li class="last"><a href="/search.php" title="Search Free CSS">Search</a></li>
>    </ul>
>  </div>
>  <div id="superbanner">
>    <script src="/assets/templates/free-templates/scripts/buysellads_sb.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
>
>  </div>
>  <div id="breadcrumb">
>    <ul>
> <li class="first">You Are Here</li>
> <li>&#187;</li>
> <li><a href="/" title="Free CSS">Free CSS</a></li>
> <li>&#187;</li>
> <li><a href="/free-css-templates.php" title="Free CSS Templates">Free CSS Templates</a></li>
> <li>&#187;</li>
> <li><a href="/free-css-templates/page2.php" title="CSS Website Templates Page 2">CSS Templates Page 2</a></li>
>
> <li>&#187;</li>
> <li class="current"><a href="/free-css-templates/page2/minisite-pro.php" title="Minisite Pro Template">Minisite Pro</a></li>
> </ul>
>  </div>
> <div id="content">
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> Having <div id="content"> directly under the BODY tag messes up everything.
>
>
> > It was recently introduce precisely to aid CSS formatting
> > of the entire body.
>
> For me, it seems easier to have a completely naked body, by default, and let
> the user decide, follow or copy a guideline to implement the nice CSS he wants
> to.
>
> Currently, I had to modify the source code to get the same effect as the one I
> want.

This is the basic structure for your intended html files :
<body>
  <div id="wrapper">
    <div id="header"> </div>
    <ul id="nav"> </ul>
    <div id="content" class="clearfix">   </div>
    <div id="footer"> </div>
  </div>
</body>

And "content" div has its special format in your style sheet.
When a unexpected "content" div comes in, it messes up everything:
<body>
  <div id=“content">
    <div id="wrapper">
      <div id="header"> </div>
      <ul id="nav"> </ul>
      <div id="content" class="clearfix">   </div>
      <div id="footer"> </div>
    </div>
  </div>
</body>

I agree with you. To give user a nacked body should be better.
Or use a long, no-conflict name is also OK :)

BR

> > Sebasian (Rose) and Richard, you helped making getting
> > the outer div into place, would you care to comment?
>
> Best regards,
>  Seb
>
> --
> Sébastien Vauban
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: Re: Export as HTML

[Sebastian Rose]

Could you describe here what's the problem with the <div> element?

This was put in recently on a users request. If you don't want to use it
for you're CSS styling, just don't.

One way to gear the export results to your needs exactly might be the
usage of XSL (which you could use with the XHTML or DocBook export).




Since the ideas about layout differ so much, I think it's not worth it
to change the XHTML export, but to put more effort into creating a
template based export instead. Or into what was already called the
`generic exporter' here, and I think some people are already working on
it.



   Sebastian










Sébastien Vauban <zthjwsqqafhv@spammotel.com> writes:
> Hi Roc Lee,
>
> Roc lee wrote:
>> 2009/3/30 roc lee <roc.lee.80@gmail.com>
>>>> Could you remove that line, and its closing tag from `(insert
>>>> "\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n"))' (in function `org-export-as-html') so
>>>> that we have a completely naked BODY, that the user can fill at its own
>>>> freedom via the preamble/postamble?
>>
>> There is no such a div on my exported files. The version I am using is
>> 6.17a.
>
> See lines 3584:
>
>
> <div id=\"content\">
>
> and line 4205:
>
>
> (insert "\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n"))
>
> in my Org-mode version 6.24trans.
>
> Seb

Re: Re: Export as HTML

[Matthew Lundin]

Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:

> Could you describe here what's the problem with the <div> element?
>
> This was put in recently on a users request. If you don't want to use it
> for you're CSS styling, just don't.

In my opinion, a minor issue with the new default <div id="content"> is
that it is used used to wrap the entire body of the page. Though there
are no hard and fast rules, I believe it is a common convention to use
the id of "wrapper" or "container" for such a div and to use the id
"content" for a div that begins after a preamble/menu and ends before a
postamble/menu. In other words in this order.

<body>
<div id="container">
<div id="menu>
...
</div>
<div id="content">
...

Let me repeat that the new behavior of org-export is not really a
problem for me, as I simply adapted my css stylings to match it (I had
been using the id "content" for everything after the preamble). But the
new behavior could cause *minor* confusion for people trying to adapt a
generic css for use with org-export.

Best,
Matt

Re: Re: Export as HTML

[Carsten Dominik]

On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:46 PM, Matthew Lundin wrote:

> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>
>> Could you describe here what's the problem with the <div> element?
>>
>> This was put in recently on a users request. If you don't want to  
>> use it
>> for you're CSS styling, just don't.
>
> In my opinion, a minor issue with the new default <div id="content">  
> is
> that it is used used to wrap the entire body of the page. Though there
> are no hard and fast rules, I believe it is a common convention to use
> the id of "wrapper" or "container" for such a div and to use the id
> "content" for a div that begins after a preamble/menu and ends  
> before a
> postamble/menu. In other words in this order.
>
> <body>
> <div id="container">
> <div id="menu>
> ...
> </div>
> <div id="content">
> ...

I would not object to renaming the outer div to "container" or whatever
other name we can find a consensus for.

I think I would object to removing it alltogether,
I cannot see the benefit of doing that.

On the other hand, I cannot really see ths issue here, because the  
name in the
templates could be changed as well, and I would suspect that this is a  
common issue
name clashes when using templates.

- Carsten


>
> Let me repeat that the new behavior of org-export is not really a
> problem for me, as I simply adapted my css stylings to match it (I had
> been using the id "content" for everything after the preamble). But  
> the
> new behavior could cause *minor* confusion for people trying to  
> adapt a
> generic css for use with org-export.
>
> Best,
> Matt
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: Re: Export as HTML

[Sebastian Rose]

Sébastien Vauban <zthjwsqqafhv@spammotel.com> writes:
> I took a free CSS template at:
>
>     http://www.free-css.com/free-css-templates/page2/minisite-pro.php


Why don't you adjust the template???

Why should anyone Org-mode to match an arbitrary freely available
CSS-template?


  Sebastian

Re: Re: Export as HTML

[Matthew Lundin]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> I would not object to renaming the outer div to "container" or
> whatever other name we can find a consensus for.
>
> I think I would object to removing it alltogether, I cannot see the
> benefit of doing that.
>
> On the other hand, I cannot really see ths issue here, because the
> name in the templates could be changed as well, and I would suspect
> that this is a common issue name clashes when using templates.

Completely agreed. This is not an important problem. Anyone who chooses
to use org-mode for publishing a web site should know a little bit about
hacking css. And as Sebastian R. suggests, we should certainly *not*
change org-export because of some random css template! 

Let me clarify that I am perfectly happy with the current behavior. And
I have a vested interest in *not* having it changed, since I'm lazy and
don't want to have to change my css file again. :)

- Matt

Re: Re: Export as HTML

[Carsten Dominik]

On Mar 30, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Matthew Lundin wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I would not object to renaming the outer div to "container" or
>> whatever other name we can find a consensus for.
>>
>> I think I would object to removing it alltogether, I cannot see the
>> benefit of doing that.
>>
>> On the other hand, I cannot really see ths issue here, because the
>> name in the templates could be changed as well, and I would suspect
>> that this is a common issue name clashes when using templates.
>
> Completely agreed. This is not an important problem. Anyone who  
> chooses
> to use org-mode for publishing a web site should know a little bit  
> about
> hacking css. And as Sebastian R. suggests, we should certainly *not*
> change org-export because of some random css template!

Yes.

Still, if it is "common practice" to call this outermost
container "container" instead of "content", I would not
object to rename it.

- Carsten

>
> Let me clarify that I am perfectly happy with the current behavior.  
> And
> I have a vested interest in *not* having it changed, since I'm lazy  
> and
> don't want to have to change my css file again. :)
>
> - Matt

Re: Export as HTML

[Sébastien Vauban]

Hi Carsten,

Carsten Dominik wrote:
> On Mar 30, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Matthew Lundin wrote:
>> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:
>>> I would not object to renaming the outer div to "container" or whatever
>>> other name we can find a consensus for.
>>
>> Completely agreed. This is not an important problem. Anyone who chooses to
>> use org-mode for publishing a web site should know a little bit about
>> hacking css.
>
> Yes.
>
> Still, if it is "common practice" to call this outermost container
> "container" instead of "content", I would not object to rename it.

From my (very) small experience, this last assumption seems to be the case.
So, for me, if we keep a global DIV in the body, we'd better name it
`container'.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban


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Re: Re: Export as HTML

[Sebastian Rose]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
> Still, if it is "common practice" to call this outermost
> container "container" instead of "content", I would not
> object to rename it.

"content" (see some drupal templates and Org-mode) or "wrapper" (see OP)
or "wrap" (see some CMSs, e.g. typolight) or ...

???


  - Sebastian

Re: Re: Export as HTML

[Carsten Dominik]

On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
>> Still, if it is "common practice" to call this outermost
>> container "container" instead of "content", I would not
>> object to rename it.
>
> "content" (see some drupal templates and Org-mode) or "wrapper" (see  
> OP)
> or "wrap" (see some CMSs, e.g. typolight) or ...
>
> ???

I think, we will just leave things the way they are.

Issue closed - as far as I am concerned.

- Carsten