Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Martin Schöön]

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One of the things I use org-mode for is making and maintaining TODO-lists.
I do this at home and at work and I want the org-files of interest to be
available and up-to-date at home and at work. The work-related org-file can
not be publicly available for obvious reasons.

I have emailed these files back and forth. This works but it isn't
fool-proof (sometimes I forget) and I think there should be a less clumsy
way to do this.

I have tried a  free and secure web-dav service. They are closing down and
it also was a bit on the clumsy side since I never got their windows client
to work at work. (Linux at home using cadaver.)

I have seen Git being mentioned in this context in these nooks of the
woods. That should work if I can find a free Git repository allowing me to
keep files secret. I have looked at a few but have not seen (key word!)
clear information on this.

Options like BitTorrent Sync work really well but only if both computers
run simultaneous which is not the case.

Other options? Dropboxish services that keep prying eyes at bay?

-- 
Martin Schöön

http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/index.html

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Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Phil Mason]

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Hi Martin,



> That should work if I can find a free Git repository allowing me to keep files secret.



I use the free private repos from https://bitbucket.org/ to do something very similar to what you require.



All the best



Phil


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Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Monroe, Will]

Phil, et al.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a write up that describes how to 
set up this kind of private syncing with bitbucket or even github?  I've 
seen a worg article on this but some of the technologies described 
(e.g., bzr) are new to me and might not be strictly necessary to achieve 
the syncing that Martin seems to want.

Putting Your org Files Under Version Control
http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-vcs.html

Will

On 9/15/14, 6:06 AM, Phil Mason wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
>
>
>> That should work if I can find a free Git repository allowing me to keep files secret.
>
>
>
> I use the free private repos from https://bitbucket.org/ to do something very similar to what you require.
>
>
>
> All the best
>
>
>
> Phil
>

Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> writes:

> One of the things I use org-mode for is making and maintaining
> TODO-lists. I do this at home and at work and I want the org-files of
> interest to be available and up-to-date at home and at work. The
> work-related org-file can not be publicly available for obvious
> reasons.
>
> I have emailed these files back and forth. This works but it isn't
> fool-proof (sometimes I forget) and I think there should be a less
> clumsy way to do this.
>
> I have tried a  free and secure web-dav service. They are closing
> down and it also was a bit on the clumsy side since I never got their
> windows client to work at work. (Linux at home using cadaver.)
>
> I have seen Git being mentioned in this context in these nooks of the
> woods. That should work if I can find a free Git repository allowing
> me to keep files secret. I have looked at a few but have not seen
> (key word!) clear information on this.
>
> Options like BitTorrent Sync work really well but only if both
> computers run simultaneous which is not the case.
>
> Other options? Dropboxish services that keep prying eyes at bay?

At some point you might consider renting a little server space -- you
have to pay, but it's awfully useful for many things.

Another option would be getting a mini home server that sits in a closet
and is always on. That solves the BitTorrent Sync problem, and you'll
suddenly find it's good for a bunch of other stuff as well: backups,
music, printing, other torrents, LAN filesharing...

Both options are annoying in their own way, but once you've got
something up and running, you'll be pleased!

E

Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Eric S Fraga]

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On Monday, 15 Sep 2014 at 19:23, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

[...]

> Another option would be getting a mini home server that sits in a closet
> and is always on. That solves the BitTorrent Sync problem, and you'll
> suddenly find it's good for a bunch of other stuff as well: backups,
> music, printing, other torrents, LAN filesharing...
>
> Both options are annoying in their own way, but once you've got
> something up and running, you'll be pleased!

+1

I use git to store all my org files to my own server.

I use an old netbook as the personal cloud server.  Works like a charm!

You can also buy dedicated units from many companies, including Western
Digital for instance.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (0xFFFCF67D), Emacs 24.4.50.1, Org release_8.3beta-320-gb5c9de

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Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Bruno Bigras]

- Maybe http://git-annex.branchable.com/assistant/ (it seems the xmpp
feature is not activated on Windows right now but it could be the best
tool soon)

- Maybe https://github.com/joeyh/git-remote-gcrypt with a free
bitbucket private repo. (this is a fork maintained by joeyh, the
git-annex assistant creator)

- Spideroak (non-free) has a dropbox like folder but the data is
supposed to be encrypted.

2014-09-15 6:59 GMT-04:00 Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com>:
> One of the things I use org-mode for is making and maintaining TODO-lists. I
> do this at home and at work and I want the org-files of interest to be
> available and up-to-date at home and at work. The work-related org-file can
> not be publicly available for obvious reasons.
>
> I have emailed these files back and forth. This works but it isn't
> fool-proof (sometimes I forget) and I think there should be a less clumsy
> way to do this.
>
> I have tried a  free and secure web-dav service. They are closing down and
> it also was a bit on the clumsy side since I never got their windows client
> to work at work. (Linux at home using cadaver.)
>
> I have seen Git being mentioned in this context in these nooks of the woods.
> That should work if I can find a free Git repository allowing me to keep
> files secret. I have looked at a few but have not seen (key word!) clear
> information on this.
>
> Options like BitTorrent Sync work really well but only if both computers run
> simultaneous which is not the case.
>
> Other options? Dropboxish services that keep prying eyes at bay?
>
> --
> Martin Schöön
>
> http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/index.html

Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Ramon Diaz-Uriarte]

Along the lines of what Bruno suggested, at least these two services also
claim to be encrypted locally (so during transit through the net and 
while on their servers things are always encrypted):

https://mega.co.nz/
http://www.wuala.com/



In fact, for files that you really want to be kept private a paranoid setup
could involve encrypting the org file with pgp[1] AND then sharing it via
one of the cloud services that say things are encrypted there. Note,
though, that many people report that those two (and spideroak) are not as
fast as dropbox and/or not as easy to setup.

Best,

R.



[1] Either a mechanism somewhat like Thierry suggested or a mechanism like
the one, now incorporate into org (I think) and that was started with this
thread from Jorge Alfaro:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2014-05/msg00422.html






On Mon, 15-09-2014, at 16:51, Bruno Bigras <bigras.bruno@gmail.com> wrote:
> - Maybe http://git-annex.branchable.com/assistant/ (it seems the xmpp
> feature is not activated on Windows right now but it could be the best
> tool soon)
>
> - Maybe https://github.com/joeyh/git-remote-gcrypt with a free
> bitbucket private repo. (this is a fork maintained by joeyh, the
> git-annex assistant creator)
>
> - Spideroak (non-free) has a dropbox like folder but the data is
> supposed to be encrypted.
>
> 2014-09-15 6:59 GMT-04:00 Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com>:
>> One of the things I use org-mode for is making and maintaining TODO-lists. I
>> do this at home and at work and I want the org-files of interest to be
>> available and up-to-date at home and at work. The work-related org-file can
>> not be publicly available for obvious reasons.
>>
>> I have emailed these files back and forth. This works but it isn't
>> fool-proof (sometimes I forget) and I think there should be a less clumsy
>> way to do this.
>>
>> I have tried a  free and secure web-dav service. They are closing down and
>> it also was a bit on the clumsy side since I never got their windows client
>> to work at work. (Linux at home using cadaver.)
>>
>> I have seen Git being mentioned in this context in these nooks of the woods.
>> That should work if I can find a free Git repository allowing me to keep
>> files secret. I have looked at a few but have not seen (key word!) clear
>> information on this.
>>
>> Options like BitTorrent Sync work really well but only if both computers run
>> simultaneous which is not the case.
>>
>> Other options? Dropboxish services that keep prying eyes at bay?
>>
>> --
>> Martin Schöön
>>
>> http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/index.html

-- 
Ramon Diaz-Uriarte
Department of Biochemistry, Lab B-25
Facultad de Medicina
Universidad Autónoma de Madrid 
Arzobispo Morcillo, 4
28029 Madrid
Spain

Phone: +34-91-497-2412

Email: rdiaz02@gmail.com
       ramon.diaz@iib.uam.es

http://ligarto.org/rdiaz

Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Martin Schöön]

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Thanks guys, great response so far.
I now have a lot of options to consider and even though a home server might
be the end game that will have to wait till I have more time to spare.

Those of you into home servers might find this interesting:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/raspberry-pi-perfect-home-server

-- 
Martin Schöön

http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/index.html

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Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Thierry Banel]

You may try the :crypt: tag like that:
* My ToDo List    :crypt:
** TODO Buy bread
** TODO Call my friend
** DONE Send an email to my customer

Everything under the node marked as :crypt: will be encrypted upon saving.
You need to setup GnuPG on all your computers with your key
(there are versions for all platforms).

Type C-c C-r  (org-reveal) to decrypt.

Then Dropbox and the like becomes an option.

Have fun

Le 15/09/2014 12:59, Martin Schöön a écrit :
> One of the things I use org-mode for is making and maintaining
> TODO-lists. I do this at home and at work and I want the org-files of
> interest to be available and up-to-date at home and at work. The
> work-related org-file can not be publicly available for obvious reasons.
>
> I have emailed these files back and forth. This works but it isn't
> fool-proof (sometimes I forget) and I think there should be a less
> clumsy way to do this.
>
> I have tried a  free and secure web-dav service. They are closing down
> and it also was a bit on the clumsy side since I never got their
> windows client to work at work. (Linux at home using cadaver.)
>
> I have seen Git being mentioned in this context in these nooks of the
> woods. That should work if I can find a free Git repository allowing
> me to keep files secret. I have looked at a few but have not seen (key
> word!) clear information on this.
>
> Options like BitTorrent Sync work really well but only if both
> computers run simultaneous which is not the case.
>
> Other options? Dropboxish services that keep prying eyes at bay?
>
> -- 
> Martin Schöön
>
> http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/index.html

Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Christoph Groth]

If at least one of your computers can be reached from all the others via
ssh, or you can reach all the other computers from one (i.e. there’s a
star topology), you could use unison to synchronize all kinds of files.
This works very reliably and handles modifications in both directions.

I use git for my programming projects, but I find that version control
is not really ideal for simple file synchronization.  This is why I
think that DVCs (and specifically git) are not a good solution for sync
(In case that someone is interested in a discussion of these things):

Keeping everything in a single repo is not handy, and solutions (like
“myrepos”) are kludges.  Another serious problem with using git for
synchronization is that it’s not able to synchronize git repositories,
as AFAIK it’s not possible/reasonable to keep git repositories under git
themselves.  Just imagine the case where you are in the middle of some
work with a git repo (an interactive rebase, for example), and you’d
like to sync and continue on another machine.

With unison this works like a charm, you there’s no automatic resolution
of conflicts.  This is not a problem if you run unison at the beginning
and at the end of each session.

Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Tim O'Callaghan]

Hi,

I collaborate with myself via dropbox and encfs. encfs does the
encryption, (via  an encrypted fuse filesystem) and dropbox syncs the
encrypted files.

I use it for linux, but it should also work for mac and windows. If i
need to, i can access the files on android using the encfs plugin (who's
name i cannot remember).

I have written a script that i run in my bashrc that auto-mounts the
encrypted dropbox folder for me. It also auto-detects dropbox
conflicts and helps resolve those with encfs.
https://github.com/timoc/encfsbox

I have been using this solution for a few years without it giving too
much trouble :)

Tim.

On 22 September 2014 10:05, Christoph Groth <christoph@grothesque.org> wrote:
> If at least one of your computers can be reached from all the others via
> ssh, or you can reach all the other computers from one (i.e. there’s a
> star topology), you could use unison to synchronize all kinds of files.
> This works very reliably and handles modifications in both directions.
>
> I use git for my programming projects, but I find that version control
> is not really ideal for simple file synchronization.  This is why I
> think that DVCs (and specifically git) are not a good solution for sync
> (In case that someone is interested in a discussion of these things):
>
> Keeping everything in a single repo is not handy, and solutions (like
> “myrepos”) are kludges.  Another serious problem with using git for
> synchronization is that it’s not able to synchronize git repositories,
> as AFAIK it’s not possible/reasonable to keep git repositories under git
> themselves.  Just imagine the case where you are in the middle of some
> work with a git repo (an interactive rebase, for example), and you’d
> like to sync and continue on another machine.
>
> With unison this works like a charm, you there’s no automatic resolution
> of conflicts.  This is not a problem if you run unison at the beginning
> and at the end of each session.
>
>

Fwd: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Tim O'Callaghan]

Christoph:
I'm more pragmatic. Obfuscated code or not, it works better than any
other Linux cloud storage system i've used. So far my solution has
allowed me to maintain a reasonably good pan system (and OS)  emacs
and org configuration. Dropbox also 'versions' the encrypted files, so
i can restore them if i need them, which has proven handy. The killer
feature for me is that once i set it up, i do not have to fiddle with
it. No git pulls, pushes, merges or whatever, dropbox does that for
me.

If someone has an open *reliable* equivalent solution then I might switch?

Will,
I have no instructions per-se. I did consider git, using git-annexe or
similar tool, but the pre-internet encryption i require does not
easily happen out of the box. If you are only syncing between your own
git servers though and do not care so much file level encryption
git-annexe a remarkable tool. I still cannot get my head around how it
works (symlinks galore!) but it seems ideal for personal sync (but not
to github). This is the nearest thing i've seen to dropbox.
https://git-annex.branchable.com/

Worth mentioning too is flashbake. This will auto commit your changes
with notes in the commit messages like what mp3 you were listening to
and pages you were browsing at the time of the commit. IIRC you would
have to do the pushing and pulling, but if like me, you are always too
busy or forgetting to commit and push your org files before you switch
systems, this might help.
https://github.com/commandline/flashbake/wiki

Tim.

On 24 September 2014 17:42, Christoph Groth <christoph@grothesque.org> wrote:
> Tim O'Callaghan wrote:
>
>> I collaborate with myself via dropbox and encfs. encfs does the
>> encryption, (via  an encrypted fuse filesystem) and dropbox syncs the
>> encrypted files.
>
>
> That might be a perfect solution if the dropbox client wasn’t the
> obfuscated piece of closed code it is.
>
> I actually wonder why they don’t make the client free software. If
> their service is well-designed, security shouldn’t depend on this. Is
> there so much valuable code in there?  Github is tremendously successful
> with a free client (and, regrettably, closed server-side software).
>
> Christoph

Re: Fwd: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Monroe, Will]

Thanks so much for your reply, Tim.  git-annex does seem like a 
possibility for syncing org-mode files but it appears that there's a lot 
to consider when setting it up.

To be honest, Dropbox works fine *most* of the time for me.  But during 
those times when it doesn't, I find myself waiting for long periods for 
org files to sync.  I'd like to separate the syncing process for these 
files, which are essential to my daily workflow, and the rest of what I 
keep in Dropbox.

Thanks again,

Will

On 9/25/14, 7:10 AM, Tim O'Callaghan wrote:
> Christoph:
> I'm more pragmatic. Obfuscated code or not, it works better than any
> other Linux cloud storage system i've used. So far my solution has
> allowed me to maintain a reasonably good pan system (and OS)  emacs
> and org configuration. Dropbox also 'versions' the encrypted files, so
> i can restore them if i need them, which has proven handy. The killer
> feature for me is that once i set it up, i do not have to fiddle with
> it. No git pulls, pushes, merges or whatever, dropbox does that for
> me.
>
> If someone has an open *reliable* equivalent solution then I might switch?
>
> Will,
> I have no instructions per-se. I did consider git, using git-annexe or
> similar tool, but the pre-internet encryption i require does not
> easily happen out of the box. If you are only syncing between your own
> git servers though and do not care so much file level encryption
> git-annexe a remarkable tool. I still cannot get my head around how it
> works (symlinks galore!) but it seems ideal for personal sync (but not
> to github). This is the nearest thing i've seen to dropbox.
> https://git-annex.branchable.com/
>
> Worth mentioning too is flashbake. This will auto commit your changes
> with notes in the commit messages like what mp3 you were listening to
> and pages you were browsing at the time of the commit. IIRC you would
> have to do the pushing and pulling, but if like me, you are always too
> busy or forgetting to commit and push your org files before you switch
> systems, this might help.
> https://github.com/commandline/flashbake/wiki
>
> Tim.
>
> On 24 September 2014 17:42, Christoph Groth <christoph@grothesque.org> wrote:
>> Tim O'Callaghan wrote:
>>
>>> I collaborate with myself via dropbox and encfs. encfs does the
>>> encryption, (via  an encrypted fuse filesystem) and dropbox syncs the
>>> encrypted files.
>>
>>
>> That might be a perfect solution if the dropbox client wasn’t the
>> obfuscated piece of closed code it is.
>>
>> I actually wonder why they don’t make the client free software. If
>> their service is well-designed, security shouldn’t depend on this. Is
>> there so much valuable code in there?  Github is tremendously successful
>> with a free client (and, regrettably, closed server-side software).
>>
>> Christoph
>

Re: Fwd: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Brett Viren]

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"Monroe, Will" <wtmonroe.ls@gmail.com> writes:

> Thanks so much for your reply, Tim.  git-annex does seem like a
> possibility for syncing org-mode files but it appears that there's a
> lot to consider when setting it up.

This thread prompted me last weekend to try git-annex via its
"assistant".  It was pretty painless to set up hosts where I could run a
local web browser.  I was also able to easily set up a remote annex on a
headless git/SSH server via the web app.

I followed this:

  http://git-annex.branchable.com/assistant/quickstart/

-Brett.

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Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Rasmus]

Hi,

"Tim O'Callaghan" <timo@linux.com> writes:

> I have no instructions per-se. I did consider git, using git-annexe or
> similar tool, but the pre-internet encryption i require does not
> easily happen out of the box. If you are only syncing between your own
> git servers though and do not care so much file level encryption
> git-annexe a remarkable tool. I still cannot get my head around how it
> works (symlinks galore!) but it seems ideal for personal sync (but not
> to github). This is the nearest thing i've seen to dropbox.
> https://git-annex.branchable.com/

At this point I would not recommend git-annex to my worst enemy, even
though I use it.  Annex is not at all transparent (to me), and I
struggle a lot when it doesn't just worksᵀᴹ [which is somehow rarely
the case for me].

That being said, it does do client-side encryption.  It will even
setup a key for you in the webapp.  Only requirement is that you have
git-annex on your central server, but I think an installation by an
unprivileged user is fine.  You have to transfer the key to your other
systems yourself.

Also, you can get rid of the symlinks with direct mode.  I sometimes
go into indirect mode to do $GIT_STUFF manually.

—Rasmus

-- 
May contains speling mistake

Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Monroe, Will]

Thanks you Rasmus and Brett!  It still sounds interesting although your 
combined feedback has left me in a state of indecision about whether to 
pursue another option or investigate git-annex further.  Ha!

On 9/26/14, 9:11 AM, Rasmus wrote:
> Hi,
>
> "Tim O'Callaghan" <timo@linux.com> writes:
>
>> I have no instructions per-se. I did consider git, using git-annexe or
>> similar tool, but the pre-internet encryption i require does not
>> easily happen out of the box. If you are only syncing between your own
>> git servers though and do not care so much file level encryption
>> git-annexe a remarkable tool. I still cannot get my head around how it
>> works (symlinks galore!) but it seems ideal for personal sync (but not
>> to github). This is the nearest thing i've seen to dropbox.
>> https://git-annex.branchable.com/
>
> At this point I would not recommend git-annex to my worst enemy, even
> though I use it.  Annex is not at all transparent (to me), and I
> struggle a lot when it doesn't just worksᵀᴹ [which is somehow rarely
> the case for me].
>
> That being said, it does do client-side encryption.  It will even
> setup a key for you in the webapp.  Only requirement is that you have
> git-annex on your central server, but I think an installation by an
> unprivileged user is fine.  You have to transfer the key to your other
> systems yourself.
>
> Also, you can get rid of the symlinks with direct mode.  I sometimes
> go into indirect mode to do $GIT_STUFF manually.
>
> —Rasmus
>

Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Karl Voit]

Hi!

* Christoph Groth <christoph@grothesque.org> wrote:
> If at least one of your computers can be reached from all the others via
> ssh, or you can reach all the other computers from one (i.e. there’s a
> star topology), you could use unison to synchronize all kinds of files.
> This works very reliably and handles modifications in both directions.

I can copy that.

I am using unison file synchronizer over a decade with GNU/Linux,
Windows (NT to Win7), and OS X without issues.

> I use git for my programming projects, but I find that version control
> is not really ideal for simple file synchronization.  This is why I
> think that DVCs (and specifically git) are not a good solution for sync

Agreed.

On my private Linux machine, I am using gitwatch[1] to auto-commit
any changes. A cron-job synchronizes periodically my Org-mode
directory to my root-server (unison over ssh).

All other machines synchronize to the root server using interactive
Unison. On my Windows machine at work, I wrote a batch file which
starts unison, then GNU/Emacs, and then unison again. This way, I
make sure that I start Emacs with the latest version of my Org-mode
files and changes get synchronized after I quit Emacs.

[1] https://github.com/nevik/gitwatch

Re: Cooperating with oneself using the cloud?

[Paul Rudin]

Karl Voit <devnull-lKKztaIpiO84+ND2ZU0ZlA@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Hi!
>
> * Christoph Groth <christoph-w+wtaCUQ4iQg7PIzrqgn9Q@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> If at least one of your computers can be reached from all the others via
>> ssh, or you can reach all the other computers from one (i.e. there’s a
>> star topology), you could use unison to synchronize all kinds of files.
>> This works very reliably and handles modifications in both directions.
>
> I can copy that.

I can't see the original post, but fwiw, I leave loads of stuff on a
Dropbox drive - this can include git repositories, so it's not an
alternative to using e.g. github, but in addition. 

As long as you're the only person modifying stuff there are no problems
(that I've experienced) with working on multiple machines this way.

If you're worried about the security of services like Dropbox (or
interception between your machines and theirs) then you can combine this
with something like ecryptfs. Only the lower (encrypted) data is sent
over the wire to Dropbox. I understand that there are some services that
do this by default - the client itself does the encryption locally using
a key that does not get transmitted - before sending to the
cloud. You're completely *!%$£ if you forget your key, but that's
another story.