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* Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
@ 2007-12-04  2:14 Daniel Clemente
  2007-12-04  3:42 ` Rustom Mody
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Clemente @ 2007-12-04  2:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Hi,

* intro  ;(warning: orgstruct-powered e-mail...)

  I recently published my final thesis, written entirely with org-mode:

- description of the thesis: http://www.danielclemente.com/disk/disk.en.html
- direct link to PDF: http://www.danielclemente.com/disk/disk.de.pdf
- source file:  http://www.danielclemente.com/disk/disk.de.org

  I started writing it in LyX but after some months I changed to
org-mode. It was a risky change since org-export-as-latex was still in
development, but thanks to Bastien all bugs were quickly fixed.

  It's not a complex document (no images, no formulas) but has lists,
footnotes, bibliography (references) and other embedded LaTeX
(including the preamble in a local variable). I haven't tried yet
exporting it as HTML.


** experiences

  The change was really worth it:

*** integration
  I could do everything inside emacs. That means, even without mouse,
using my favourite key combinations. And with an integrated browser
where I could look up words in the dictionary.

*** outline
  The outlining function of org-mode was the most useful. It's
wonderful seeing 60 pages condensed in one and at the same time being
able to change each detail without much trouble.

  A problem was that each header doesn't give information about how
much text it contains: at the outline you can see „Point 1" and „Point
2", but you don't notice that for instance that „Point 1" contains
just half page and „Point 2" four pages; and that was important for me
since I had to control the number of pages per section.

*** tasks
  I could also track tasks. Each section started as some notes in
Spanish, then I would translate it to German, and finally ask some
German native speaker to revise the text. Each item went through
„write"->„translate"->„correct"->„done".

  To track translations and corrections I used an additional section
and normal lists. I didn't use properties at each trackable section
because that was slower than copying the overview to a piece of paper
and drawing possible distributions of the work there. This was because
the assignments were complex to describe: ex. a person was correcting
point 3 --except 3.2-- and point 4; another one was correcting 3.1,
3.3, 3.4 and 5 but just after point 3.3 is completely translated; etc.
And I wanted to distribute work evenly; therefore I needed to write at
each section how many pages it took. And this was easier with a „piece
of paper", especially it didn't require much time to optimize.

  If I had to do this again, I would invest more time on learning
„org-columns", since it provides a similar approach to what I did in
the paper: for each section there's a column „person assigned for
translation" and „person assigned for revision".


** Problems

  Problems I had with org-mode:

- bugs or missing features of org-export-latex: but all which I
reported where corrected by Bastien
- the syntax of org-mode hindered me from doing what I wanted:
 - I couldn't write *1* *2* *3* etc.
 - it took a lot of hacks to write a number in brackets: [1]
 - things „like *this*" didn't work out of the box (and reached
unnoticed the final version)
 - the processing of some characters wasn't very clear: ~ # \ $ etc.
gave export problems

  Many of these syntax problems were already corrected


** end

  I hope that this encourages others to write more long articles with
org-mode. It's possible and very comfortable; and the more work there
is, the more it helps!


  Thanks for org-mode,

Daniel

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
  2007-12-04  2:14 Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX Daniel Clemente
@ 2007-12-04  3:42 ` Rustom Mody
  2007-12-04  4:02   ` Daniel Clemente
  2007-12-04 11:20   ` Bastien
  2007-12-04 11:29 ` Bastien
  2007-12-09  9:33 ` Gour
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Rustom Mody @ 2007-12-04  3:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

On Dec 4, 2007 7:44 AM, Daniel Clemente <n142857@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> * intro  ;(warning: orgstruct-powered e-mail...)
>
>   I recently published my final thesis, written entirely with org-mode:

Bravo!

One of the things I learn from your mail is orgstruct.

Could you elaborate a little on how you use orgstruct to compose your mail?
For example whats your major mode, and mail client? And how they
interact with orgstruct?

Thanks

Rustom

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
  2007-12-04  3:42 ` Rustom Mody
@ 2007-12-04  4:02   ` Daniel Clemente
  2007-12-04 11:20   ` Bastien
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Clemente @ 2007-12-04  4:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rustom Mody; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 962 bytes --]


> Could you elaborate a little on how you use orgstruct to compose your mail?
> For example whats your major mode, and mail client? And how they
> interact with orgstruct?

   Not much, since I still haven't integrated my e-mail into emacs. I used simply the „scratch" buffer and copy+paste... „Copy" from the .org file where I wrote the original text, and „Paste" to Gmail's web browser interface.

   But it's much easier so:

1. Use emacs-w3m
2. Configure w3m-form-textarea-edit-mode to be „orgstruct-mode" instead of „text-mode"
3. Go edit a textarea, for instance the place for the text on Gmail's web interface
4. The buffer opens in orgstruct-mode and you can write „* Headings" in your mail and use TAB etc. to fold/unfold the sections
5. Press C-c C-c to finish the mail. Important: the cursor should not be on a heading; otherwise C-c C-c changes tags
6. Send mail

   Mmm... I will also use this configuration. Thanks for asking,

Daniel

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Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
  2007-12-04  3:42 ` Rustom Mody
  2007-12-04  4:02   ` Daniel Clemente
@ 2007-12-04 11:20   ` Bastien
  2007-12-05 11:53     ` ignotus
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2007-12-04 11:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

"Rustom Mody" <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:

> On Dec 4, 2007 7:44 AM, Daniel Clemente <n142857@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> * intro  ;(warning: orgstruct-powered e-mail...)
>>
>>   I recently published my final thesis, written entirely with org-mode:
>
> Bravo!
>
> One of the things I learn from your mail is orgstruct.
>
> Could you elaborate a little on how you use orgstruct to compose your
> mail?  For example whats your major mode, and mail client? And how
> they interact with orgstruct?

I use `orgstruct-mode' as a minor mode when composing a message in
message-mode (my mailer is Gnus.)

This is as simple as:

  (add-hook 'message-mode-hook 'turn-on-orgstruct)

Then you can edit your email as if it where an Org file.  You can move
headings, items of a list, etc.  The only drawback is that the default
key for sending an email is C-c C-c, which is also a *very* important
key in Org.

For example, if the point is on a checkbox, C-c C-c will toggle it.  But
what if the point is not exactly at a position where Org's C-c C-c have
a specific meaning?  The email will be sent, which might surprise the
user.  For now I solve this by not using Org's C-c C-c key while
composing an email, but there might be better solution.

I also used to have orgtbl-mode turned on by default, but I'm now
turning it on and off explicitely:

  (add-hook 'message-mode-hook 'turn-on-orgtbl)

HTH,

-- 
Bastien

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
  2007-12-04  2:14 Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX Daniel Clemente
  2007-12-04  3:42 ` Rustom Mody
@ 2007-12-04 11:29 ` Bastien
  2007-12-09  9:33 ` Gour
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2007-12-04 11:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Hi Daniel,

"Daniel Clemente" <n142857@gmail.com> writes:

>   I recently published my final thesis, written entirely with org-mode:
>
> - description of the thesis: http://www.danielclemente.com/disk/disk.en.html
> - direct link to PDF: http://www.danielclemente.com/disk/disk.de.pdf
> - source file:  http://www.danielclemente.com/disk/disk.de.org
>
>   I started writing it in LyX but after some months I changed to
> org-mode. It was a risky change since org-export-as-latex was still in
> development, but thanks to Bastien all bugs were quickly fixed.

Excellent!  I'm glad you didn't give up writing it with Org, even with
all the struggle about making the LaTeX exporter suits your needs.

Maybe a story like "I wrote my thesis in Org" would nicely fit into
Carsten tutorial page...

Best,

-- 
Bastien

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
  2007-12-04 11:20   ` Bastien
@ 2007-12-05 11:53     ` ignotus
  2007-12-05 13:00       ` Bastien
       [not found]       ` <acf852aa0712050613lf21c99exe8fd3f3d1a9b97cf@mail.gmail.com>
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: ignotus @ 2007-12-05 11:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

>>>>> Regarding 'Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX'; Bastien adds:


  > For example, if the point is on a checkbox, C-c C-c will toggle it.
  > But what if the point is not exactly at a position where Org's C-c
  > C-c have a specific meaning?  The email will be sent, which might
  > surprise the user.  For now I solve this by not using Org's C-c C-c
  > key while composing an email, but there might be better solution.

Let me put in my 500 Forints (Hungarian money), maybe someone did not
know about it and will find it useful.

Accidentally typing "C-c C-c" bit me a couple of times when I was
experimenting with sticky keys and other accessibility features.

I found a nice little solution to this problem, disabling the
message-send-and-exit command:

,----
| (disable-command 'message-send-and-exit)
`----

Now when I press "C-c C-c" I get a warning buffer and I have to confirm
it by pressing space.  So sending a message is "C-c C-c SPC" for me,
which is cool and I can cancel the sending with "C-g" or "n" if I want
to.

Have a nice day,
Richard

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
  2007-12-05 11:53     ` ignotus
@ 2007-12-05 13:00       ` Bastien
  2007-12-05 13:18         ` Rustom Mody
       [not found]       ` <acf852aa0712050613lf21c99exe8fd3f3d1a9b97cf@mail.gmail.com>
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2007-12-05 13:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

ignotus@freemail.hu writes:

>>>>>> Regarding 'Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX'; Bastien adds:
>
>
>   > For example, if the point is on a checkbox, C-c C-c will toggle it.
>   > But what if the point is not exactly at a position where Org's C-c
>   > C-c have a specific meaning?  The email will be sent, which might
>   > surprise the user.  For now I solve this by not using Org's C-c C-c
>   > key while composing an email, but there might be better solution.
>
> Let me put in my 500 Forints (Hungarian money), maybe someone did not
> know about it and will find it useful.
>
> Accidentally typing "C-c C-c" bit me a couple of times when I was
> experimenting with sticky keys and other accessibility features.
>
> I found a nice little solution to this problem, disabling the
> message-send-and-exit command:
>
> ,----
> | (disable-command 'message-send-and-exit)
> `----
>
> Now when I press "C-c C-c" I get a warning buffer and I have to confirm
> it by pressing space.  So sending a message is "C-c C-c SPC" for me,
> which is cool and I can cancel the sending with "C-g" or "n" if I want
> to.

There has been some discussion on the Gnus mailing list about this
recently.  But this is always a trade-off: I like to be able to send
emails without confirmation and I don't need Org's C-c C-c that often
when editing a mail, then requiring a confirmation step doesn't fit my
needs.  But different people have different needs !

Thanks anyway for the hint, it might help others.

Best,

-- 
Bastien

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
  2007-12-05 13:00       ` Bastien
@ 2007-12-05 13:18         ` Rustom Mody
  2007-12-05 21:19           ` Mike Newman
  2007-12-06 12:26           ` Daniel Clemente
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Rustom Mody @ 2007-12-05 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

I downloaded Daniel's thesis and the org original to help me study how
org mode may be used for writing large structured documents.

When reading his org file in emacs I get something about some local
variables (org-export-latex-preamble) not being safe, some others
(org-export-latex-title-command) being risky and what not. Dont know
whether this is emacs or org (or Daniel!) complaining and about what.

[And dont know any Spanish / enough German so cant use the examples
for anything but studying visual effects]

I guess of course that its nothing but just wondering whats happening.

Thanks

Rustom

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Fwd: Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
       [not found]       ` <acf852aa0712050613lf21c99exe8fd3f3d1a9b97cf@mail.gmail.com>
@ 2007-12-05 14:14         ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2007-12-05 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl>
Date: Dec 5, 2007 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Orgmode] Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
To: "ignotus@freemail.hu" <ignotus@freemail.hu>


On 12/5/07, ignotus@freemail.hu <ignotus@freemail.hu> wrote:
> >>>>> Regarding 'Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX'; Bastien adds:
>
>
>   > For example, if the point is on a checkbox, C-c C-c will toggle it.
>   > But what if the point is not exactly at a position where Org's C-c
>   > C-c have a specific meaning?  The email will be sent, which might
>   > surprise the user.  For now I solve this by not using Org's C-c C-c
>   > key while composing an email, but there might be better solution.
>
> Let me put in my 500 Forints (Hungarian money), maybe someone did not
> know about it and will find it useful.
>
> Accidentally typing "C-c C-c" bit me a couple of times when I was
> experimenting with sticky keys and other accessibility features.
>
> I found a nice little solution to this problem, disabling the
> message-send-and-exit command:
>
> ,----
> | (disable-command 'message-send-and-exit)
> `----
>
> Now when I press "C-c C-c" I get a warning buffer and I have to confirm
> it by pressing space.  So sending a message is "C-c C-c SPC" for me,
> which is cool and I can cancel the sending with "C-g" or "n" if I want
> to.

What an ingenious work-around.  Very nice!  I guess iI would need something like
this because Org-mode has trained me to hit C-c C-c all the time and the danger
of sending an email prmaturely would be significant.

But if you prefer to shift Org-mode C-c C-cm you can always hach to
appropriate keymap and move that command.

Great to see that orgstruct-mode is finally being used.

- Carsten

>
> Have a nice day,
> Richard
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
  2007-12-05 13:18         ` Rustom Mody
@ 2007-12-05 21:19           ` Mike Newman
  2007-12-06 12:26           ` Daniel Clemente
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Mike Newman @ 2007-12-05 21:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:48:05 +0530
"Rustom Mody" <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote:

> I downloaded Daniel's thesis and the org original to help me study how
> org mode may be used for writing large structured documents.
> 
> When reading his org file in emacs I get something about some local
> variables (org-export-latex-preamble) not being safe, some others
> (org-export-latex-title-command) being risky and what not. Dont know
> whether this is emacs or org (or Daniel!) complaining and about what.
> 
> [And dont know any Spanish / enough German so cant use the examples
> for anything but studying visual effects]
> 
> I guess of course that its nothing but just wondering whats happening.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rustom
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
> 

Emacs allows you to define local variables in a file, which can be a
very useful feature (for example, as here, to define the latex preamble
on export).  It does however open a potential security hole, probably
allowing the execution of arbitrary elisp.  So when opening a file
that defines a local variable, Emacs warns you.  If you know it's safe
(because you defined it yourself) you can add it to the trusted
list, so you won't get asked every time. 
-- 
Mike

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
  2007-12-05 13:18         ` Rustom Mody
  2007-12-05 21:19           ` Mike Newman
@ 2007-12-06 12:26           ` Daniel Clemente
  2007-12-09  0:25             ` Bastien
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Clemente @ 2007-12-06 12:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rustom Mody; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Hi,

>
> When reading his org file in emacs I get something about some local
> variables (org-export-latex-preamble) not being safe, some others
> (org-export-latex-title-command) being risky and what not. Dont know
> whether this is emacs or org (or Daniel!) complaining and about what.
>

   yes, this is the only way I found to include file-specific
configuration for the LaTeX exporter. Normally you would have a
different preamble in each document, but the variable
org-export-latex-preamble is global and affects all documents;
therefore it must be chaneg in a „local variables" section.
   If you get such warning, you should revise which variables are
being changed; if you think that the changes are harmless (eg: LaTeX
preamble), you can accept them.

   Maybe there's a better solution to add more exporter options just
for the current file...


Daniel

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
  2007-12-06 12:26           ` Daniel Clemente
@ 2007-12-09  0:25             ` Bastien
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2007-12-09  0:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

"Daniel Clemente" <n142857@gmail.com> writes:

>> When reading his org file in emacs I get something about some local
>> variables (org-export-latex-preamble) not being safe, some others
>> (org-export-latex-title-command) being risky and what not. Dont know
>> whether this is emacs or org (or Daniel!) complaining and about what.
>
>    yes, this is the only way I found to include file-specific
> configuration for the LaTeX exporter. Normally you would have a
> different preamble in each document, but the variable
> org-export-latex-preamble is global and affects all documents;
> therefore it must be chaneg in a „local variables" section.

For thos who are using the latest Org release: org-export-latex-preamble
has been removed.  

If you want to use your own preamble in the LaTeX output, you should
configure it in `org-export-latex-classes' and select it globally with
`org-export-latex-class' or locally with the #+LaTeX_CLASS: option.

Additionnally, if you want to append LaTeX options to your preamble, you
can locally set the `org-export-latex-append-header' variable.  E.g.:

,----
| * COMMENT Local variable
| 
| # Local Variables:
| # org-export-latex-append-header: "\\usepackage{fancyhrd}"
| # End:
`----

-- 
Bastien

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX
  2007-12-04  2:14 Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX Daniel Clemente
  2007-12-04  3:42 ` Rustom Mody
  2007-12-04 11:29 ` Bastien
@ 2007-12-09  9:33 ` Gour
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Gour @ 2007-12-09  9:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode


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On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 03:14:11 +0100
"Daniel Clemente" <n142857@gmail.com> wrote:

>   I started writing it in LyX but after some months I changed to
> org-mode. It was a risky change since org-export-as-latex was still in
> development, but thanks to Bastien all bugs were quickly fixed.

Thank you very much for sharing your experience.

I did two books with LyX and after recently migrating to emacs (from vim) I'm more than
enthusiastic to stay as much as possible in emacs OS :-)

Since I want to use org-mode for GTD, writing for latex in it sounds very cool.

Few days ago I was asking what's the 'quality' of muse's latex export, i.e. whether it is 
human-readable for further refining in auctex, but  hearing abour your success with org-mode 
no need to look further, just the opposite to learn org-mode properly ;)

/me sighs seeing how much to learn to move more into emacs - gnus as mailer is still a hard nut :-(


Sincerely,
Gour

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_______________________________________________
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Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2007-12-09  9:40 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-12-04  2:14 Example of thesis in org-mode and LaTeX Daniel Clemente
2007-12-04  3:42 ` Rustom Mody
2007-12-04  4:02   ` Daniel Clemente
2007-12-04 11:20   ` Bastien
2007-12-05 11:53     ` ignotus
2007-12-05 13:00       ` Bastien
2007-12-05 13:18         ` Rustom Mody
2007-12-05 21:19           ` Mike Newman
2007-12-06 12:26           ` Daniel Clemente
2007-12-09  0:25             ` Bastien
     [not found]       ` <acf852aa0712050613lf21c99exe8fd3f3d1a9b97cf@mail.gmail.com>
2007-12-05 14:14         ` Fwd: " Carsten Dominik
2007-12-04 11:29 ` Bastien
2007-12-09  9:33 ` Gour

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