Bibliographic references

Bibliographic references

[Alan L Tyree]

I feel like this should be googleable, but I'm not having much luck.

As Eric mentioned in a recent post, one of the nice things about 
writing in org is that there is no need to worry about output format.

Except in one thing: How do I deal with bibliographic citations so that 
the output is sensible in the different formats? How do I get \cite
{key} to export properly in XHTML and odt as well as in LaTeX?

Sorry if this is obvious to everybody else -- I'm stymied.

Cheers,
Alan

-- 
Alan L Tyree                    http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206		sip:172385@iptel.org

Re: Bibliographic references

[Nick Dokos]

Alan L Tyree <alantyree@gmail.com> wrote:

> I feel like this should be googleable, but I'm not having much luck.
> 
> As Eric mentioned in a recent post, one of the nice things about 
> writing in org is that there is no need to worry about output format.
> 

He did say "mostly" I think...

> Except in one thing: How do I deal with bibliographic citations so that 
> the output is sensible in the different formats? How do I get \cite
> {key} to export properly in XHTML and odt as well as in LaTeX?
> 

... and I believe this is one area that is not covered by the "mostly"
umbrella :)

> Sorry if this is obvious to everybody else -- I'm stymied.
> 

I don't know of an answer either. I'd like to find out that I'm wrong.

Nick

Re: Bibliographic references

[Thomas S. Dye]

Alan L Tyree <alantyree@gmail.com> writes:

> I feel like this should be googleable, but I'm not having much luck.
>
> As Eric mentioned in a recent post, one of the nice things about 
> writing in org is that there is no need to worry about output format.
>
> Except in one thing: How do I deal with bibliographic citations so that 
> the output is sensible in the different formats? How do I get \cite
> {key} to export properly in XHTML and odt as well as in LaTeX?
>
> Sorry if this is obvious to everybody else -- I'm stymied.
>
> Cheers,
> Alan
Aloha Alan,

IIUC, your immediate question has to do with making an in-text citation
look right in different output formats.  This can be accomplished with
the extended link syntax.  A basic setup that only includes LaTeX export
can be found here:

http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-latex-export.html#sec-17-2

For the other export formats you'll need to add (eq format 'html) ...,
etc.

Of course, this just handles the in-text part for formats other than
LaTeX.  LaTeX uses bibtex or biblatex to compile the list of
references.  I don't know how to accomplish this in ODT.  For html, I
export from Org-mode to LaTeX, then use tex4ht to convert to html.  This
leverages the bibtex capabilities and yields nicely formatted
bibliographies in html.

hth,
Tom

-- 
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com

Re: Bibliographic references

[Nick Dokos]

Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:

> Of course, this just handles the in-text part for formats other than
> LaTeX.  LaTeX uses bibtex or biblatex to compile the list of
> references.  I don't know how to accomplish this in ODT.  For html, I
> export from Org-mode to LaTeX, then use tex4ht to convert to html.  This
> leverages the bibtex capabilities and yields nicely formatted
> bibliographies in html.
> 

If libreoffice can import HTML, maybe the tex4ht way can work for ODT as
well?

Nick

Re: Bibliographic references

[Alan L Tyree]

On 17/12/11 10:08:25, Nick Dokos wrote:
> Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
> 
> > Of course, this just handles the in-text part for formats other 
> than
> > LaTeX.  LaTeX uses bibtex or biblatex to compile the list of
> > references.  I don't know how to accomplish this in ODT.  For html,
> I
> > export from Org-mode to LaTeX, then use tex4ht to convert to html. 
> This
> > leverages the bibtex capabilities and yields nicely formatted
> > bibliographies in html.
> > 
> 
> If libreoffice can import HTML, maybe the tex4ht way can work for ODT
> as
> well?

I suppose going through tex4ht is one way, but, to say the least, it 
doesn't seem very elegant.

LyX manages to produce XHTML directly without going through the tex 
procedure (though the Export -> LyXHTML procedure) . I'm not sure how, 
but it even allows different citation styles to be ouput.

This seems like an important problem if Org is going to be the 
mechanism for publishing both eBooks and printed books. The LyX people 
are working hard on getting a direct eBook exporter, but it would be so 
much nicer to be able to write directly in Org mode.

I regret that I don't have the programming skills to work on the 
problem. It's always easy to sit back as a user and say "Gee, this 
needs to be done." 

Cheers,
Alan

> 
> Nick
> 



-- 
Alan L Tyree                    http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206		sip:172385@iptel.org

Re: Bibliographic references

[Thomas S. Dye]

Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:

> Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>
>> Of course, this just handles the in-text part for formats other than
>> LaTeX.  LaTeX uses bibtex or biblatex to compile the list of
>> references.  I don't know how to accomplish this in ODT.  For html, I
>> export from Org-mode to LaTeX, then use tex4ht to convert to html.  This
>> leverages the bibtex capabilities and yields nicely formatted
>> bibliographies in html.
>> 
>
> If libreoffice can import HTML, maybe the tex4ht way can work for ODT as
> well?
>
> Nick
>

Hi Nick,

Good catch.  In principle, yes, though I've never worked with
libreoffice.  We follow a similar path to produce Word versions of our
documents when clients require them: Org -> LaTeX -> tex4ht -> html ->
Word -> Save As -> lots of tidying by hand.  It works, but it isn't a
pretty process with our setup.  I'm sure folks on this list could do
better, though.

tex4ht has some switches that help it produce output suited for this
path.  It was designed to be configured very extensively.

What I meant earlier (but didn't express well) was that I didn't know if
it was possible to generate bibliographies from keys in the ODT
environment.  I'm guessing there must be a way to do this (Endnote?,
Zotero?), but I haven't looked into it.

Tom

-- 
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com

Re: Bibliographic references

[Alan L Tyree]

On 17/12/11 11:25:36, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:
> 
> > Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Of course, this just handles the in-text part for formats other
> than
> >> LaTeX.  LaTeX uses bibtex or biblatex to compile the list of
> >> references.  I don't know how to accomplish this in ODT.  For 
> html,
> I
> >> export from Org-mode to LaTeX, then use tex4ht to convert to html. 
> This
> >> leverages the bibtex capabilities and yields nicely formatted
> >> bibliographies in html.
> >> 
> >
> > If libreoffice can import HTML, maybe the tex4ht way can work for
> ODT as
> > well?
> >
> > Nick
> >
> 
> Hi Nick,
> 
> Good catch.  In principle, yes, though I've never worked with
> libreoffice.  We follow a similar path to produce Word versions of 
> our
> documents when clients require them: Org -> LaTeX -> tex4ht -> html -
> >
> Word -> Save As -> lots of tidying by hand.  It works, but it isn't a
> pretty process with our setup.  I'm sure folks on this list could do
> better, though.
> 
> tex4ht has some switches that help it produce output suited for this
> path.  It was designed to be configured very extensively.
> 
> What I meant earlier (but didn't express well) was that I didn't know
> if
> it was possible to generate bibliographies from keys in the ODT
> environment.  I'm guessing there must be a way to do this (Endnote?,
> Zotero?), but I haven't looked into it.

Even though my original question was a bit ambiguous, what I meant was 
generating the bibliography from keys. One org input file, output to 
all formats does the right thing.

oolatex produces reasonably good OO output, including bibliography, so 
the org -> LaTeX -> oolatex sequence would work, but, again, seems 
clumsy. Particularly since Jambunathan's ODT export looks so good.

Alan

> 
> Tom
> 
> -- 
> Thomas S. Dye
> http://www.tsdye.com
> 



-- 
Alan L Tyree                    http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206		sip:172385@iptel.org

Re: Bibliographic references

[Thomas S. Dye]

Alan L Tyree <alantyree@gmail.com> writes:

> On 17/12/11 11:25:36, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
>> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:
>> 
>> > Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Of course, this just handles the in-text part for formats other
>> than
>> >> LaTeX.  LaTeX uses bibtex or biblatex to compile the list of
>> >> references.  I don't know how to accomplish this in ODT.  For 
>> html,
>> I
>> >> export from Org-mode to LaTeX, then use tex4ht to convert to html. 
>> This
>> >> leverages the bibtex capabilities and yields nicely formatted
>> >> bibliographies in html.
>> >> 
>> >
>> > If libreoffice can import HTML, maybe the tex4ht way can work for
>> ODT as
>> > well?
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>> 
>> Hi Nick,
>> 
>> Good catch.  In principle, yes, though I've never worked with
>> libreoffice.  We follow a similar path to produce Word versions of 
>> our
>> documents when clients require them: Org -> LaTeX -> tex4ht -> html -
>> >
>> Word -> Save As -> lots of tidying by hand.  It works, but it isn't a
>> pretty process with our setup.  I'm sure folks on this list could do
>> better, though.
>> 
>> tex4ht has some switches that help it produce output suited for this
>> path.  It was designed to be configured very extensively.
>> 
>> What I meant earlier (but didn't express well) was that I didn't know
>> if
>> it was possible to generate bibliographies from keys in the ODT
>> environment.  I'm guessing there must be a way to do this (Endnote?,
>> Zotero?), but I haven't looked into it.
>
> Even though my original question was a bit ambiguous, what I meant was 
> generating the bibliography from keys. One org input file, output to 
> all formats does the right thing.
>
> oolatex produces reasonably good OO output, including bibliography, so 
> the org -> LaTeX -> oolatex sequence would work, but, again, seems 
> clumsy. Particularly since Jambunathan's ODT export looks so good.
>
> Alan
>
>> 
>> Tom
>> 
>> -- 
>> Thomas S. Dye
>> http://www.tsdye.com
>> 
Aloha Alan,

It would probably be fairly easy to add a variable such as
org-latex-to-oo-process patterned after org-latex-to-pdf-process and
then export to oo through oolatex directly from org-mode.  That might
get rid of the clumsiness you're experiencing.

I'm still curious how one generates a bibliography from keys in the ODT
world, or if it is possible.    

All the best,
Tom

-- 
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com

Re: Bibliographic references

[Alan L Tyree]

On 17/12/11 12:21:42, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
> Alan L Tyree <alantyree@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > On 17/12/11 11:25:36, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
> >> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:
> >> 
> >> > Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Of course, this just handles the in-text part for formats other
> >> than
> >> >> LaTeX.  LaTeX uses bibtex or biblatex to compile the list of
> >> >> references.  I don't know how to accomplish this in ODT.  For 
> >> html,
> >> I
> >> >> export from Org-mode to LaTeX, then use tex4ht to convert to
> html. 
> >> This
> >> >> leverages the bibtex capabilities and yields nicely formatted
> >> >> bibliographies in html.
> >> >> 
> >> >
> >> > If libreoffice can import HTML, maybe the tex4ht way can work 
> for
> >> ODT as
> >> > well?
> >> >
> >> > Nick
> >> >
> >> 
> >> Hi Nick,
> >> 
> >> Good catch.  In principle, yes, though I've never worked with
> >> libreoffice.  We follow a similar path to produce Word versions of 
> >> our
> >> documents when clients require them: Org -> LaTeX -> tex4ht -> 
> html
> -
> >> >
> >> Word -> Save As -> lots of tidying by hand.  It works, but it 
> isn't
> a
> >> pretty process with our setup.  I'm sure folks on this list could
> do
> >> better, though.
> >> 
> >> tex4ht has some switches that help it produce output suited for
> this
> >> path.  It was designed to be configured very extensively.
> >> 
> >> What I meant earlier (but didn't express well) was that I didn't
> know
> >> if
> >> it was possible to generate bibliographies from keys in the ODT
> >> environment.  I'm guessing there must be a way to do this
> (Endnote?,
> >> Zotero?), but I haven't looked into it.
> >
> > Even though my original question was a bit ambiguous, what I meant
> was 
> > generating the bibliography from keys. One org input file, output 
> to
> 
> > all formats does the right thing.
> >
> > oolatex produces reasonably good OO output, including bibliography,
> so 
> > the org -> LaTeX -> oolatex sequence would work, but, again, seems 
> > clumsy. Particularly since Jambunathan's ODT export looks so good.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >> 
> >> Tom
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> Thomas S. Dye
> >> http://www.tsdye.com
> >> 
> Aloha Alan,
> 
> It would probably be fairly easy to add a variable such as
> org-latex-to-oo-process patterned after org-latex-to-pdf-process and
> then export to oo through oolatex directly from org-mode.  That might
> get rid of the clumsiness you're experiencing.
> 
> I'm still curious how one generates a bibliography from keys in the
> ODT
> world, or if it is possible.   

Er, yeah, G'day Thomas :-),

I'm actually more interested in XHTML output since my main interest is 
in generating ePub books. 

Org exports nicer html than LyX, but LyX's ability to deal directly 
with bibtex keys when exporting to html is very nice. It means that 
there is a one stop shop for print and eBooks. But I would much rather 
work in emacs and org.

Cheers,
Alan
 
> 
> All the best,
> Tom
> 
> -- 
> Thomas S. Dye
> http://www.tsdye.com
> 



-- 
Alan L Tyree                    http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206		sip:172385@iptel.org