From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@gmail.com>, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
Cc: "eliz@gnu.org" <eliz@gnu.org>,
"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>,
"emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: RE: RE: [External] : Re: Adding custom providers for thingatpt.el (was: [PATCH] Add support for 'thing-at-point' to get URL at point)
Date: Tue, 7 May 2024 01:52:13 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB5488D7218057930B4AE1F162F3E42@SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <cd65f3f6-782e-55d7-63d4-c3b7d972daf8@gmail.com>
Thanks for your reply, Jim.
> On 4/30/2024 2:10 PM, Drew Adams wrote:
> >> I've also fixed a bug in EWW and bug-reference-mode
> >> where it would return nil for (thing-at-point 'url)
> >> if point was at the *end* of a URL.
> >
> > By "at the end" I assume you really mean just
> > _after_ a URL, i.e., no longer on/at the URL.
> >
> > FWIW, that's actually _superior_ behavior.
> >
> > Unfortunately however, Emacs has chosen the
> > behavior you describe here:
> >
> >> It's now consistent with how 'thing-at-point'
> >> works by default.
> >
> >> (If you have two consecutive URLs and point
> >> is between them...it'll prefer the second one.)
> >
> > Which is better! It's what "at point" means.
> >
> [snip]
> >
> > See bug #9300, " `bounds-of-thing-at-point'
> > does not return nil when just after THING".
>
> I agree overall that your proposed behavior is more correct, and it's
> probably how I'd have implemented 'thing-at-point' if I were doing it
> from scratch. However, I think an even worse outcome than
> "thing-at-point looks at point or before-point" is "sometimes
> thing-at-point just looks at point, and other times it looks at point or
> before-point" (which is what it does today).
Yes, such inconsistency is arguably worse than
consistent bad behavior. Arguably worse - and
arguably better. (That's in the nature of
inconsistency - some will see a glass half
full; others half empty.)
> I'd even be open to something like a 'thing-at-point-is-strict' defvar
> that people could let-bind as wanted, but I'm not going to *argue* for
> that myself.
>
> Ultimately though, this patch is really just about providing the
> necessary defcustoms for org-mode to be able to use 'thing-at-point'
> (and for Ihor to feel ok about it ;)). Changing 'thing-at-point's
> behavior should probably be handled separately, especially since there'd
> be an uphill battle to revisit the decision in bug#9300.
I hear you. The behavior should be changed so
that, in general, bounds-of-thing-at-point etc.
return nil when there is _no thing at point_,
including when point is after, including just
after, a thing but not on such a thing.
There can be commands (and noncommand fns) that
return things _near_ point, not only at point.
And "near" can be configurable with an argument.
In particular, they can do what the vanilla fns
currently do: return a thing at OR just before
point. But the "-at-point" functions shouldn't
do that. They should do what their names say.
It's important to have such functions. It's
not just about arguing that strictly at-point
is better than at-or-just-after-point. The
point (sic) is that currently there's _no way
to determine whether_ there's a thing at point.
That's the real problem - no test for a thing
at a given position. That means that a whole
slew of possible applications of the feature
are impossible to realize.
___
Along with the fix for this bug, there could
also be a defvar, or even an option, that fuses
the two behaviors (at OR just before), i.e.,
that gives the current, misguided behavior, to
allow existing code or habits compatibility.
It's not hard for Emacs to still DTRT. It just
takes a decision and admission that the behavior
was misguided and unnecessarily limiting (BIG
time).
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-05-07 1:53 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 26+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-11-06 19:45 [PATCH] Add support for 'thing-at-point' to get URL at point Jim Porter
2023-11-06 19:56 ` Jim Porter
2023-11-06 20:11 ` Adding custom providers for thingatpt.el (was: [PATCH] Add support for 'thing-at-point' to get URL at point) Ihor Radchenko
2023-11-06 20:53 ` Jim Porter
2024-02-05 15:07 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-02-05 22:44 ` Jim Porter
2024-02-05 22:56 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-02-06 12:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-02-06 12:38 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-02-06 12:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-04-12 12:41 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-04-12 22:30 ` Jim Porter
2024-04-29 4:26 ` Jim Porter
2024-04-29 18:14 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-04-30 4:42 ` Jim Porter
2024-04-30 11:39 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-04-30 18:27 ` Jim Porter
2024-04-30 21:10 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-05-07 1:08 ` Jim Porter
2024-05-07 1:52 ` Drew Adams [this message]
2024-05-07 12:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-05-07 15:16 ` Drew Adams
2024-05-07 16:10 ` Jim Porter
2024-05-07 18:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-05-18 8:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] <CAO48Bk97scjnRwHTegBHDQC61E0EOtgvZaKLsz27qYyvamL2Aw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <SJ0PR10MB5488A3BE62A58A2E7BF7331CF3E52@SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
2024-05-09 5:46 ` Re: [External] : " Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
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