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From: Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa@gmail.com>
To: "Gustav Wikström" <gustav.erik@gmail.com>
Cc: Org Mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [OT] Defining System, process, methodology and framework
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:14:35 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CACHMzOECQB5LLqKViwQ1pz5dPqheR_MtQ9uguEqvP9C-KmLS-g@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+SyOP_P+1dm8wFWz4pho0V_5psJLLwU6K8jmwwOS_RjJowD6w@mail.gmail.com>

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Hi Gustav,

Not stupid, maybe a bit confusing ;) But thinking normally is, until you
> reason it out. =) (And that's a process!)

Thanks. Yeah, it looks more like a brainstorm :)

Anywya, at least it's some food for thought. The book goes way deeper into
what system thinking is by exploring the theory of general systems. It's
really interesting. I'll blog about it as I go and share here.

For those who are interested, this is the book:


I've been reading this one before as well:




2012/4/13 Gustav Wikström <gustav.erik@gmail.com>

> Not stupid, maybe a bit confusing ;) But thinking normally is, until you
> reason it out. =) (And that's a process!)
> I wanted to write something about your mail but didn't find anything of
> relevance in my mind (In my system, to share your terminology ;) ).
> Please share your insights afterwards!
> /Gustav
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <
> celoserpa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well, looks like my text was kind of stupid and or confusing...
>> Anyway, I started reading "An Introduction To General Systems Thinking" -
>> surprisingly interesting book, and it's helping me answer most of those
>> questions in deeper ways. I needed to do some additional investigation
>> before starting to ask questions ;)
>> I'll share the insights after I finish it,
>> Thanks!
>> Marcelo.
>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <
>> celoserpa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi guys,
>>> I know there are quite a few smart brains around here, and I think this
>>> is valid discussion for this mailing list, even if OT.
>>> I'm not a cientist, nor work inside an academic environment. I'm just a
>>> regular guy trying to understand this world and making better use of my
>>> resources, specially time. For this, I have read dozens of books on
>>> personal productivity, including GTD, Making it All Work, and Work the
>>> System. All great books.
>>> I've started to notice a pattern though. All of them talk about systems
>>> and processes (and some might even use the word framework and methodology /
>>> or method), and although you can live by and be quite productivity if you
>>> apply the principles, I knew I had to understand in an even lower and basic
>>> level. I then asked myself "What the heck is a system" and what is the
>>> relationship it has with "process", "methodology" and "frameworks" ?
>>> I found out, for example, that "System" and "Process" sometimes are used
>>> inter-changeably. So I went to google to try to find out the answer. The
>>> simplest answers simply say that "a process is what a system is made of".
>>> It did not convince me.
>>> By reading the wikipedia article about System (
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System), I found out this paragraph under
>>> "System concepts":
>>> Process and transformation process
>>>> A system can also be viewed as a bounded transformation process, that
>>>> is, a process or collection of processes that transforms inputs into
>>>> outputs. Inputs are consumed; outputs are produced. The concept of input
>>>> and output here is very broad. E.g., an output of a passenger ship is the
>>>> movement of people from departure to destination.
>>> A system can viewed as a process? Hmm, confusing.
>>> Right now, my mental model basically says that a "system" is like
>>> blueprint with different components that communicate, and a process is what
>>> runs on it (or in on of its components). "Framework" is like a collection
>>> of systems and a "methodology" is basically akin to system (in my
>>> understanding).
>>> Why am I obsessing about this?
>>> The reason is systems thinking. I think it's a quite interesting mindset
>>> and way to perceive the world. By trying to view yourself and what
>>> surrounds you as systems (with sub-systems), it's much easier to document
>>> (them), get feedback, and improve, automating your life even further,
>>> understanding it more, and living better.
>>> For example, from this perspective I think, GTD is simply a product of
>>> an elevated point of view from the author David Allen. He simply viewed
>>> things systematically and documented them. That's why he says it's
>>> 'common-sense'.
>>> But before that, it would be nice to know exactly what a System is, and
>>> it's relationship with "process", "methodology" and "framework", in
>>> abstract terms.
>>>  What do you think? I'm sure there are quite a few people here that
>>> might be crazy enough to have the same question, or perhaps, I'm just too
>>> crazy. Let me know, any insights very much appreciated.
>>> Cheers,
>>> - Marcelo.

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  reply	other threads:[~2012-04-13 16:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-04-11  2:24 [OT] Defining System, process, methodology and framework Marcelo de Moraes Serpa
2012-04-13  4:59 ` Marcelo de Moraes Serpa
2012-04-13  8:43   ` Gustav Wikström
2012-04-13 16:14     ` Marcelo de Moraes Serpa [this message]
2012-04-22 10:48   ` Karl Voit
2012-04-23 18:48     ` Marcelo de Moraes Serpa
2012-04-25 13:29 ` Eric Fraga

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