* Bug: Secondary smart quotes are exported as apostrophes. [9.1.14 (9.1.14-1-g4931fc-elpa @ /home/coleman/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.1.14/)] @ 2018-12-31 18:41 Coleman Gariety 2019-01-01 15:46 ` Nicolas Goaziou 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Coleman Gariety @ 2018-12-31 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1160 bytes --] According to documentation (org-export-with-smart-quotes) should treat "pairs of single quotes as secondary quotes." This text: 'foo' Should be exported to HTML as: ‘foo’ However, org-mode 9.1.14 exports this text as: ’foo’ This does not occur when a secondary pair of quotations occurs within a pair of primary quotations. This text: "'foo'" Gets exported (properly) as: “‘foo’” This also occurs when exporting to pdf, latex and odt. I was able to get org to export smart quotes as expected by commenting out line `5505` of `ox.el`: 5503 ;; Not already in a level 1 quote: this is an 5504 ;; apostrophe. 5505 ;; ((not level1-open) 'apostrophe) Even with this line commented out, apostrophes are properly exported. (Even within pairs of primary and secondary quotations.) Is something wrong with my configuration? Or is there a problem with the org-export--smart-quote-status function? Thank you. Coleman Emacs : GNU Emacs 26.1 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.30) of 2018-07-05 Package: Org mode version 9.1.14 (9.1.14-1-g4931fc-elpa @ /home/coleman/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.1.14/) [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1787 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Secondary smart quotes are exported as apostrophes. [9.1.14 (9.1.14-1-g4931fc-elpa @ /home/coleman/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.1.14/)] 2018-12-31 18:41 Bug: Secondary smart quotes are exported as apostrophes. [9.1.14 (9.1.14-1-g4931fc-elpa @ /home/coleman/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.1.14/)] Coleman Gariety @ 2019-01-01 15:46 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2019-01-02 21:51 ` Coleman Gariety 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2019-01-01 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Coleman Gariety; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hello, Coleman Gariety <garietyc@reed.edu> writes: > According to documentation (org-export-with-smart-quotes) should treat > "pairs of single quotes as secondary quotes." This text: Only within primary quotes! If there are no primary quotes around, you don't need a second level of quotation, and single quotes are not special. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Secondary smart quotes are exported as apostrophes. [9.1.14 (9.1.14-1-g4931fc-elpa @ /home/coleman/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.1.14/)] 2019-01-01 15:46 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2019-01-02 21:51 ` Coleman Gariety 2019-01-03 11:21 ` Nicolas Goaziou 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Coleman Gariety @ 2019-01-02 21:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Coleman Gariety, emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1056 bytes --] Nicolas, Thank you for your response. I now see that I had misunderstood the documentation. Also, it occurs to me that one can make use of single quotation marks as primary quotes when mentioning a word without using it. Moreover, when italics and double quotation marks are also present, the use of single quotations as primary is necessary. For example: 'GNU' is an acronym for the phrase "GNU's Not Unix!" but GNU is an > operating system and *not *an acronym. Is it feasible to add an option to treat single quotation marks as primary pairs on export? Thanks, Coleman Gariety On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 7:46 AM Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote: > Hello, > > Coleman Gariety <garietyc@reed.edu> writes: > > > According to documentation (org-export-with-smart-quotes) should treat > > "pairs of single quotes as secondary quotes." This text: > > Only within primary quotes! If there are no primary quotes around, you > don't need a second level of quotation, and single quotes are not > special. > > Regards, > > -- > Nicolas Goaziou > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2053 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Secondary smart quotes are exported as apostrophes. [9.1.14 (9.1.14-1-g4931fc-elpa @ /home/coleman/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.1.14/)] 2019-01-02 21:51 ` Coleman Gariety @ 2019-01-03 11:21 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2019-01-06 3:51 ` Coleman Gariety 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2019-01-03 11:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Coleman Gariety; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hello, Coleman Gariety <garietyc@reed.edu> writes: > Also, it occurs to me that one can make use of single quotation marks as > primary quotes when mentioning a word without using it. Moreover, when > italics and double quotation marks are also present, the use of single > quotations as primary is necessary. > > For example: > > 'GNU' is an acronym for the phrase "GNU's Not Unix!" but GNU is an > operating system and *not* an acronym. When you need that level of precision, smart quotes are not for you. "Smart" quotes are a dumb way to automate some basic typographic rules. Clearly, this is not what you are after. You can use entities directly to obtain the desired result, e.g. \rsquo, \lsquo... > Is it feasible to add an option to treat single quotation marks as primary > pairs on export? I think you are mixing up the level of quotation and the glyph used. You can export "..." as single quotes by setting `org-export-smart-quotes-alist' accordingly. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Secondary smart quotes are exported as apostrophes. [9.1.14 (9.1.14-1-g4931fc-elpa @ /home/coleman/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.1.14/)] 2019-01-03 11:21 ` Nicolas Goaziou @ 2019-01-06 3:51 ` Coleman Gariety 2019-01-08 10:13 ` Nicolas Goaziou 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Coleman Gariety @ 2019-01-06 3:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Coleman Gariety, emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2274 bytes --] Nicolas, Thank you for your response. > When you need that level of precision, smart quotes are not for you. I agree. However, in specialized fields (linguistics and philosophy, for example), single quotation marks are commonly used to refer to technical terms or specialized uses of words <https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/31420/when-should-single-quotes-be-used#answer-31444>: "Single quotes are easier on the eyes when reading material that uses quotes frequently, which is why academic publishers adopted this format for works in these areas." > You can use entities directly to obtain the desired result, e.g. \rsquo, \lsquo... I think that this is rather tedious. Do you agree? If so, it seems reasonable to me that there should be some option to export text such as... 'foo' ...in the form of... ‘foo’ It occurs to me that an academic who works in the field of linguistics or philosophy should be able to properly export his or her writing without using cryptic glyphs ("...") or commenting out line `5545` of `ox.el`. Do you agree? Thank you for your time and your consideration. Coleman On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 3:21 AM Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote: > Hello, > > Coleman Gariety <garietyc@reed.edu> writes: > > > Also, it occurs to me that one can make use of single quotation marks as > > primary quotes when mentioning a word without using it. Moreover, when > > italics and double quotation marks are also present, the use of single > > quotations as primary is necessary. > > > > For example: > > > > 'GNU' is an acronym for the phrase "GNU's Not Unix!" but GNU is an > > operating system and *not* an acronym. > > When you need that level of precision, smart quotes are not for you. > "Smart" quotes are a dumb way to automate some basic typographic rules. > Clearly, this is not what you are after. > > You can use entities directly to obtain the desired result, e.g. \rsquo, > \lsquo... > > > Is it feasible to add an option to treat single quotation marks as > primary > > pairs on export? > > I think you are mixing up the level of quotation and the glyph used. You > can export "..." as single quotes by setting > `org-export-smart-quotes-alist' accordingly. > > > Regards, > > -- > Nicolas Goaziou > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3378 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Secondary smart quotes are exported as apostrophes. [9.1.14 (9.1.14-1-g4931fc-elpa @ /home/coleman/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.1.14/)] 2019-01-06 3:51 ` Coleman Gariety @ 2019-01-08 10:13 ` Nicolas Goaziou 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2019-01-08 10:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Coleman Gariety; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hello, Coleman Gariety <garietyc@reed.edu> writes: > I agree. However, in specialized fields (linguistics and philosophy, for > example), single quotation marks are commonly used to refer to technical > terms or specialized uses of words > <https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/31420/when-should-single-quotes-be-used#answer-31444>: > "Single > quotes are easier on the eyes when reading material that uses quotes > frequently, which is why academic publishers adopted this format for works > in these areas." As you put it: "in specialized fields", which is exactly my point. Smart quotes, as implemented in Org, are not up to the requirements of specialized fields. This is no LaTeX. >> You can use entities directly to obtain the desired result, e.g. \rsquo, > \lsquo... > > I think that this is rather tedious. Do you agree? It depends on the number of occurrences. With completion, it can be quick to insert. > If so, it seems reasonable to me that there should be some option to > export text such as... > > 'foo' > > > ...in the form of... > > ‘foo’ You may write an export filter for that. > It occurs to me that an academic who works in the field of linguistics or > philosophy should be able to properly export his or her writing without > using cryptic glyphs ("...") or commenting out line `5545` of `ox.el`. Do > you agree? I think cryptic (?) double quotes are perfectly fine since you can export them as single quotes in the end. And I do not understand your reference to line 5545 in "ox.el". Despite its lacks, current implementation of smart quotes does its — limited — job. I understand that it does not fulfill anyone's needs. Now, if you think you have a better design for them, please share it here. If it is sound and you are willing to implement it, I'm sure Org users will appreciate it. However, please make sure you explain the design from the ground up, not as a modification of the current system, even if the implementation ultimately is a slight modification of the latter. This is important to avoid introducing a misunderstanding of the current system in the process. In particular, you may note that current system does not use "double quotes" and "single quotes", but "primary quotes" and "secondary quotes". This is an important distinction, as it is more general: some languages do not use, e.g., single quotes at all. It just happens that Org uses double quotes as primary quotes, but only as a class of characters, not as a literal symbol. As a consequence, as odd as it may sound, I would consider it a regression if Org exported " as double quotes and ' as single quotes exclusively. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2019-01-08 10:13 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2018-12-31 18:41 Bug: Secondary smart quotes are exported as apostrophes. [9.1.14 (9.1.14-1-g4931fc-elpa @ /home/coleman/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.1.14/)] Coleman Gariety 2019-01-01 15:46 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2019-01-02 21:51 ` Coleman Gariety 2019-01-03 11:21 ` Nicolas Goaziou 2019-01-06 3:51 ` Coleman Gariety 2019-01-08 10:13 ` Nicolas Goaziou
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