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From: Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us>
To: mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr, tsd@tsdye.online
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: oc-biblatex and biblatex substyles
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2022 22:45:49 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87k0fc4jxu.fsf@gmx.us> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8735n0ss2i.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> (Nicolas Goaziou's message of "Fri, 10 Dec 2021 10:54:45 +0100")

Hi there,

Sorry for the slow reply.

Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:

> Hello,
> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>> I wonder if oc-biblatex should support loading biblatex-derived libraries,
>> e.g. biblatex-chicago?
>> There’s a quite a few of these libraries:
>>    $ tlmgr search --global "biblatex-" | wc -l
>>      66
>> (This is somewhat overestimating the true number of “biblatex-*”
>> packages).
>> These libraries are typically nie because they are (i) easier to configure
>> than biblatex for a specific style and (ii) actually support some
>> \usepackage keywords that can’t be used by biblatex (e.g. ibidtracker for
>> biblatex-chicago).
>> Thus, it might be able to at least support
>>     #+cite_export: biblatex-$SUBSTYLE
>> E.g. #+cite_export: biblatex-chicago.  But oc-biblatex would likely also
>> have to be able to pickup biblatex-* packages in
>> org-latex-(default-)packages-alist...
>> So maybe it’s a can of worms?
> I don't know enough about BibLaTeX to answer that question. What does it
> entail to "support loading biblatex-derived libraries" in practical
> terms? I assume \usepackage{biblatex-chicago} instead of
> \usepackage{biblatex}, with a different set of options and commands,
> too.

For the most part it should be drop in replacements.  I don’t think any
user commands are *removed* from a derived style. But options to the
package could be added an user commands could be added.

> It may be possible to define a new variable, e.g.,
> ‘org-cite-biblatex-package‘, defaulting to ("bilatex" . nil). It would
> contain entries like (SUBSTYLE . OPTIONS) and would be used to build the
> proper \usepackage invocation.

Maybe that is the best way to go about.  Then at least we could support
the main styles out there.  I guess Chicago covers most of the social
sciences?  I guess the humanities use APA?  I don’t know how different
biblatex-apa is though.

There are also obscure styles.  E.g. a student once used biblatex-aer
which is a derived style of biblatex-chicago that makes it look like a
famous journal.

> I also plan to allow custom commands in "oc-biblatex.el", so it could
> also handle commands introduced by the substyles.
> How we would select substyle from the document is not clear, tho.

If we want to support arbitrary styles somewhat I guess something like
#+cite_export: biblatex-$SUBSTYLE would be ok.  But it would not
necessarily be full support.

> Another possibility it to write, e.g., "oc-biblatex-chicago.el" and
> define a new ‘biblatex-chicago’ export processor, re-using most
> functions from "oc-biblatex.el". It would probably only be necessary to
> re-define ‘org-cite-biblatex-export-citation’ and
> ‘org-cite-biblatex-prepare-preamble’.

I guess you (and Tom) is right that it would be better to make a derived style.

Tom, did you already make a derived style?  From the later emails it
sounded like it, but I don’t see oc-biblatex-chicago.el in the main repo.

Otherwise, I can have try to have a go at it over the coming weeks.

Kind regards and terribly sorry again for missing the follow ups earlier,

In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they are not

  parent reply	other threads:[~2022-01-06 21:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 13+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-11-28 17:11 oc-biblatex and biblatex substyles Rasmus
2021-12-10  9:54 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-12-10 16:14   ` Thomas S. Dye
2021-12-12 15:25     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-12-12 18:37       ` Thomas S. Dye
2021-12-12 18:46         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-12-12 19:15           ` Thomas S. Dye
2021-12-12 20:31             ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-12-12 21:40               ` Thomas S. Dye
2022-01-06 21:26   ` Rasmus
2022-01-06 21:45   ` Rasmus [this message]
2022-01-06 21:46     ` Rasmus
2022-01-06 22:17     ` Thomas S. Dye

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