From: No Wayman <iarchivedmywholelife@gmail.com>
To: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [RFC] DOCT: Declarative Org Capture Templates
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:01:01 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87d07wkbkz.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87y2qlgq33.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:
> Hello,
>
> No Wayman <iarchivedmywholelife@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> * [RFC] DOCT: Declarative Org Capture Templates
>
> Thank you for your work.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
> Disclaimer: I am only using very basic capture templates. So, I
> cannot
> comment realistically on the new syntax you suggest. In
> particular, the
> example you give is way too complex for me to understand the
> benefits of
> your syntax. I suggest to start out with showing simple
> use-cases.
Apologies, it's hard to strike a balance between showing something
practical and over-writing.
> - Is it compatible with the current syntax? If it isn't, is
> there a way
> to ease transition to the new syntax?
My package translates DOCT's syntax into the current syntax.
I have written a separate package that does basic translation from
the current syntax to DOCT's as well.
It is not optimal yet, but does work for simple cases.
There are a few features of DOCT (property inheritance, management
of hooks/contexts) that make it more difficult than just a syntax
swap.
I could come up with something more fully featured, but in my
experience thus far, it does not take long to translate from one
syntax to the other manually.
> - Is it simple to use on simple use-cases?
I would say so. There is a single function that does the
translation. For example:
(doct '("Example" :keys "e" :file ""))
Returns:
(("e" "Example" entry (file "") nil :doct (:doct-name "Example"
:keys "e" :file "")))
Part of my frustration of writing templates was always having to
look up the structure of the template list.
Keys, description, type, target (with its variations) and
template-string (with its variations) is a lot to remember.
Whereas, with:
(doct '("Example" :keys "e" :file ""))
I need only remember that the description comes first. The
keywords are more self-describing as well.
There's an inherent complexity to the flexibility that org-capture
offers, but this makes templates easier to write/read.
> - Is it more capable than the current syntax, i.e., does it
> handle
> situations that are not possible, even in a convoluted way,
> currently?
>> - DOCT validates templates before runtime execution.
>>
>> For exmaple, you have a template with an entry type of `'entry'
>> and you forget the leading star in the template string.
>> Days later you go to use that template. It's borked.
>
> This is different from introducing a new syntax for capture
> templates.
>
> Actually, `org-insert-place-item' and
> `org-capture-place-table-line'
> both try to fix misshaped templates already. OTOH
> `org-capture-place-entry' merely calls `org-capture-verify-tree'
> on the
> template, i.e., it barfs if the template is ill-defined. It is
> a discrepancy we could fix independently on your new syntax.
>
> I invite you to propose a patch for `org-capture-place-entry' so
> it does
> a better job at fixing the initial template, if needed. I'll
> gladly
> apply it.
`org-capture-place-entry' is run after `org-capture' is invoked,
so while I agree a patch could improve the error, the user still
hits that error when they are using their capture template
(defeating the point of org-capture letting you take a quick note
without losing your current context).
DOCT checks while converting declarations to templates, so the
error is thrown before org-capture is used (almost like linting
for templates).
Aside from that, most of what DOCT does is sugar for common use
patterns I've observed in others' org-capture-templates.
For example, adding per-declaration hooks:
Without DOCT:
;;rest of template configured elsewhere...
;;make sure you update this if you ever change the key for this
template!
(defun my-org-template-hook ()
(when (string= (org-capture-get :key t) "t")
(message "Template \"t\" selected.")))
(add-hook 'org-capture-mode-hook 'my-org-template-hook)
With DOCT:
(doct `("Example" :keys "t" :file ""
:hook (lambda () (message "Template %s selected."
(doct-get :keys)))))
DOCT ensures that function is only run for that template without
having the user manually filter against `org-capture-plist's :key.
It also allows the user to do this inline with the rest of the
declaration vs spreading it out.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-04-24 18:01 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 16+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-04-23 17:30 [RFC] DOCT: Declarative Org Capture Templates No Wayman
2020-04-24 10:01 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2020-04-24 18:01 ` No Wayman [this message]
2022-03-20 10:19 ` [RFC] DOCT: Declarative Org Capture Templates (easier template syntax) Ihor Radchenko
2022-03-20 13:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-21 9:14 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-03-23 16:31 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-23 21:28 ` Tim Cross
2022-03-24 0:39 ` No Wayman
2022-03-26 8:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-03-27 14:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-03-29 14:19 ` Matt Price
2022-03-20 15:56 ` Mark Barton
2022-03-21 8:51 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-03-23 14:32 ` João Pedro de Amorim Paula
2022-03-24 18:43 ` physiculus
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