* Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
@ 2015-10-01 22:45 Jonathan Oddie
2015-10-02 16:35 ` Nicolas Goaziou
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan Oddie @ 2015-10-01 22:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Hello Org folks,
(This is a duplicate of a Stackexchange question posted at
http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/17061/is-exporting-of-smart-single-quotes-broken-in-org-8-3)
I cannot seem get single quotes to export as 'smart' quotes under Org
8.3.2. Here is a minimal file that reproduces the problem:
#+OPTIONS: ':t
#+LANGUAGE: en
This is 'within single quotes'. This is "within double quotes".
Expected behavior: from "emacs -Q", under which "M-x org-version"
reports 8.2.10, the output when exporting to UTF-8 plaintext is:
This is ‘within single quotes’. This is “within double quotes”
and the output when exporting to LaTeX is:
This is `within single quotes'. This is ``within double quotes''.
If I load the most recent version of org-mode (starting from "emacs -Q",
typing "M-x package-initialize RET", and "M-x load-library RET org
RET"), "org-version" reports 8.3.2, and the output no longer correctly
translates single quotes. In UTF-8 text, the result is:
This is ’within single quotes’. This is “within double quotes”.
In LaTeX, the result is:
This is 'within single quotes'. This is ``within double quotes''.
Thanks in advance for any advice,
Jonathan
Emacs : GNU Emacs 24.4.1 (i686-apple-darwin, NS apple-appkit-1038.36)
of 2014-10-20 on builder10-6.porkrind.org
Package: Org-mode version 8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa=
/org-20150929/)
current state:
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
(setq
org-ctrl-c-ctrl-c-hook '(org-babel-hash-at-point
org-babel-execute-safely-maybe)
org-plantuml-jar-path "~/bin/plantuml.jar"
org-ditaa-jar-path "/opt/local/share/java/ditaa0_9.jar"
org-tab-first-hook '(org-hide-block-toggle-maybe
org-babel-hide-result-toggle-maybe
org-babel-header-arg-expand)
org-archive-hook '(org-attach-archive-delete-maybe)
org-modules '(org-bbdb org-bibtex org-docview org-gnus org-info org-jsinfo
org-irc org-mew org-mhe org-rmail org-special-blocks org-vm
org-wl org-w3m)
org-cycle-hook '(org-cycle-hide-archived-subtrees org-cycle-hide-drawers
org-cycle-show-empty-lines
org-optimize-window-after-visibility-change)
org-clocktable-defaults '(:maxlevel 2 :lang "en" :scope file :block thismo=
nth
:wstart 1 :mstart 1 :tstart nil :tend nil :step
week :stepskip0 nil :fileskip0 nil :tags nil
:emphasize nil :link nil :narrow 40! :indent t
:formula nil :timestamp nil :level nil :tcolumns
nil :formatter nil)
org-agenda-before-write-hook '(org-agenda-add-entry-text)
org-confirm-babel-evaluate nil
org-speed-command-hook '(org-speed-command-default-hook
org-babel-speed-command-hook)
org-babel-pre-tangle-hook '(save-buffer)
org-occur-hook '(org-first-headline-recenter)
org-latex-default-packages-alist '(("AUTO" "inputenc" t) ("T1" "fontenc" t)
("" "fixltx2e" nil) ("" "graphicx" t)
("" "longtable" nil) ("" "float" nil)
("" "wrapfig" nil) ("" "rotating" nil)
("normalem" "ulem" t) ("" "amsmath" t)
("" "textcomp" t) ("" "marvosym" t)
("" "wasysym" t) ("" "amssymb" t)
("" "hyperref" nil) ("" "oddie" t)
"\\tolerance=3D1000")
org-structure-template-alist '(("s" "#+BEGIN_SRC ?\n\n#+END_SRC"
"<src lang=3D\"?\">\n\n</src>")
("e" "#+BEGIN_EXAMPLE\n?\n#+END_EXAMPLE"
"<example>\n?\n</example>")
("q" "#+BEGIN_QUOTE\n?\n#+END_QUOTE"
"<quote>\n?\n</quote>")
("v" "#+BEGIN_VERSE\n?\n#+END_VERSE"
"<verse>\n?\n</verse>")
("V" "#+BEGIN_VERBATIM\n?\n#+END_VERBATIM"
"<verbatim>\n?\n</verbatim>")
("c" "#+BEGIN_CENTER\n?\n#+END_CENTER"
"<center>\n?\n</center>")
("l" "#+BEGIN_LaTeX\n?\n#+END_LaTeX"
"<literal style=3D\"latex\">\n?\n</literal=
>")
("L" "#+LaTeX: "
"<literal style=3D\"latex\">?</literal>")
("h" "#+BEGIN_HTML\n?\n#+END_HTML"
"<literal style=3D\"html\">\n?\n</literal>=
")
("H" "#+HTML: "
"<literal style=3D\"html\">?</literal>")
("a" "#+BEGIN_ASCII\n?\n#+END_ASCII")
("A" "#+ASCII: ")
("i" "#+INDEX: ?" "#+INDEX: ?")
("I" "#+INCLUDE: %file ?"
"<include file=3D%file markup=3D\"?\">")
("f"
"#+CAPTION: ?\n#+LABEL: \n[[file:%file]]\n=
\n")
)
org-metaup-hook '(org-babel-load-in-session-maybe)
org-confirm-elisp-link-function 'yes-or-no-p
org-hide-leading-stars t
org-default-notes-file "~/notes/notes.org"
org-src-tab-acts-natively t
org-export-backends '(ascii html icalendar latex md)
org-clock-out-hook '(org-clock-remove-empty-clock-drawer)
org-mode-hook '(my-org-mode-custom
#[nil "\300\301\302\303\304$\207"
[org-add-hook change-major-mode-hook org-show-block-all
append local]
5]
#[nil "\300\301\302\303\304$\207"
[org-add-hook change-major-mode-hook
org-babel-show-result-all append local]
5]
org-babel-result-hide-spec org-babel-hide-all-hashes)
org-time-clocksum-format '(:hours "%d" :require-hours t :minutes ":%02d"
:require-minutes t)
org-directory "~/notes"
org-footnote-auto-adjust t
org-metadown-hook '(org-babel-pop-to-session-maybe)
org-todo-keywords '((sequence "TODO" "WIP" "DONE") (sequence "REFILE")
(sequence "LOOKUP" "NEXT" "FOUND" "READING" "READ"))
org-startup-folded 'content
org-agenda-files '("/Users/jonathan/ox-it/notes.org" "~/notes/notes.org")
org-src-mode-hook '(org-src-babel-configure-edit-buffer
org-src-mode-configure-edit-buffer)
org-after-todo-state-change-hook '(org-clock-out-if-current)
org-babel-tangle-lang-exts '(("lisp" . "lisp") ("python" . "py")
("LilyPond" . "ly") ("emacs-lisp" . "el")
("elisp" . "el"))
org-todo-keyword-faces '(("TODO" :foreground "red" :weight bold)
("WIP" :foreground "orange" :weight bold)
("DONE" :foreground "forest green" :weight bold)
("REFILE" :foreground "red" :weight bold)
("LOOKUP" :foreground "red" :weight bold)
("NEXT" :foreground "yellow" :weight bold)
("FOUND" :foreground "orange" :weight bold)
("READING" :foreground "blue" :weight bold)
("READ" :foreground "forest green" :weight bold))
org-babel-load-languages '((R . t) (emacs-lisp . t) (lilypond . t)
(python . t) (lisp . t) (sql . t) (ditaa . t)
(sqlite . t) (shell . t) (plantuml . t))
org-confirm-shell-link-function 'yes-or-no-p
)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-10-01 22:45 Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)] Jonathan Oddie
@ 2015-10-02 16:35 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-02 17:32 ` Jonathan Oddie
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2015-10-02 16:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jonathan Oddie; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Hello,
Jonathan Oddie <j.j.oddie@gmail.com> writes:
> (This is a duplicate of a Stackexchange question posted at
> http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/17061/is-exporting-of-smart-single-quotes-broken-in-org-8-3)
>
> I cannot seem get single quotes to export as 'smart' quotes under Org
> 8.3.2. Here is a minimal file that reproduces the problem:
>
> #+OPTIONS: ':t
> #+LANGUAGE: en
>
> This is 'within single quotes'. This is "within double quotes".
>
> Expected behavior: from "emacs -Q", under which "M-x org-version"
> reports 8.2.10, the output when exporting to UTF-8 plaintext is:
>
> This is ‘within single quotes’. This is “within double quotes”
>
> and the output when exporting to LaTeX is:
>
> This is `within single quotes'. This is ``within double quotes''.
>
> If I load the most recent version of org-mode (starting from "emacs -Q",
> typing "M-x package-initialize RET", and "M-x load-library RET org
> RET"), "org-version" reports 8.3.2, and the output no longer correctly
> translates single quotes. In UTF-8 text, the result is:
>
> This is ’within single quotes’. This is “within double quotes”.
>
> In LaTeX, the result is:
>
> This is 'within single quotes'. This is ``within double quotes''.
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice,
The smart quotes algorithm changed. Now "..." are always level 1 quotes,
and '...' and always level 2. IOW, '...' are not treated as smart quotes
if they are not located within "...".
Note that for a given language, "..." can still be treated as single
quotes and '...' as double quotes.
Regards,
--
Nicolas Goaziou
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-10-02 16:35 ` Nicolas Goaziou
@ 2015-10-02 17:32 ` Jonathan Oddie
2015-10-02 18:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan Oddie @ 2015-10-02 17:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-orgmode
Hello Nicolas,
> The smart quotes algorithm changed. Now "..." are always level 1 quotes,
> and '...' and always level 2. IOW, '...' are not treated as smart quotes
> if they are not located within "...".
>
> Note that for a given language, "..." can still be treated as single
> quotes and '...' as double quotes.
Thank you for the explanation. Just to make sure I understand: it
sounds like '...' and "..." should be thought of as markup, with "..."
always used for outer quotes and '...' for inner quotes in org-mode
source files.
However, I could customize `org-export-smart-quotes-alist' to export
outer quotes using single quote marks and inner quotes using double
quote marks.
Is that about right?
Thanks,
Jonathan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-10-02 17:32 ` Jonathan Oddie
@ 2015-10-02 18:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-02 19:36 ` Jonathan Oddie
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2015-10-02 18:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jonathan Oddie; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Jonathan Oddie <j.j.oddie@gmail.com> writes:
> Thank you for the explanation. Just to make sure I understand: it
> sounds like '...' and "..." should be thought of as markup, with "..."
> always used for outer quotes and '...' for inner quotes in org-mode
> source files.
>
> However, I could customize `org-export-smart-quotes-alist' to export
> outer quotes using single quote marks and inner quotes using double
> quote marks.
>
> Is that about right?
Correct. However, `org-export-smart-quotes-alist' aims to be
typographically correct for all handled languages, so it is not
customizable.
Also, this variable predates the new algorithm, so it introduces some
confusion in its entries: there, "opening-double-quote" should be
understood as "opening-outer-quote" and "opening-single-quote" as
"opening-inner-quote", or some such.
Regards,
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-10-02 18:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou
@ 2015-10-02 19:36 ` Jonathan Oddie
2015-10-02 20:13 ` Rasmus
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan Oddie @ 2015-10-02 19:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-orgmode
Hello Nicolas,
Thanks for your response.
>> However, I could customize `org-export-smart-quotes-alist' to export
>> outer quotes using single quote marks and inner quotes using double
>> quote marks.
>>
>> Is that about right?
>
> Correct. However, `org-export-smart-quotes-alist' aims to be
> typographically correct for all handled languages, so it is not
> customizable.
In British English, I believe standard typographical style uses single quotation marks for normal quotations, and double quotation marks for inner quotations.
I can obtain this behaviour with Org 8.3 by evaluating the following form in *scratch*:
(push
'("en-GB"
(opening-single-quote :utf-8 "“" :html "“" :latex "``" :texinfo "``")
(closing-single-quote :utf-8 "”" :html "”" :latex "''" :texinfo "''")
(opening-double-quote :utf-8 "‘" :html "‘" :latex "`" :texinfo "`")
(closing-double-quote :utf-8 "’" :html "’" :latex "'" :texinfo "'")
(apostrophe :utf-8 "’" :html "’"))
org-export-smart-quotes-alist)
and then adding #+LANGUAGE: en-GB to my input org-mode file (sample input and output below).
Would a patch to this effect be acceptable for a future Org release? (I would also be happy to contribute a documentation patch for the manual).
Thanks,
Jonathan
==========
test.org input:
==========
#+OPTIONS: ':t
#+LANGUAGE: en-GB
This is "a quotation."
This is "a quotation with 'an inner quotation'".
This sentence doesn't contain a contraction.
This quotation "doesn't" contain a contraction.
This "nested quotation 'doesn't' contain a contraction."
This "nested quotation 'doesn't contain' a contraction."
==========
UTF-8 output:
==========
This is ‘a quotation.’
This is ‘a quotation with “an inner quotation”’.
This sentence doesn’t contain a contraction.
This quotation ‘doesn’t’ contain a contraction.
This ‘nested quotation “doesn’t” contain a contraction.’
This ‘nested quotation “doesn’t contain” a contraction.’
> Also, this variable predates the new algorithm, so it introduces some
> confusion in its entries: there, "opening-double-quote" should be
> understood as "opening-outer-quote" and "opening-single-quote" as
> "opening-inner-quote", or some such.
>
> Regards,
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-10-02 19:36 ` Jonathan Oddie
@ 2015-10-02 20:13 ` Rasmus
2015-10-02 21:55 ` Nicolas Goaziou
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Rasmus @ 2015-10-02 20:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Jonathan Oddie <j.j.oddie@gmail.com> writes:
> Hello Nicolas,
>
> Thanks for your response.
>
>>> However, I could customize `org-export-smart-quotes-alist' to export
>>> outer quotes using single quote marks and inner quotes using double
>>> quote marks.
>>>
>>> Is that about right?
>>
>> Correct. However, `org-export-smart-quotes-alist' aims to be
>> typographically correct for all handled languages, so it is not
>> customizable.
>
> In British English, I believe standard typographical style uses single quotation marks for normal quotations, and double quotation marks for inner quotations.
>
> I can obtain this behaviour with Org 8.3 by evaluating the following form in *scratch*:
>
> (push
> '("en-GB"
> (opening-single-quote :utf-8 "“" :html "“" :latex "``" :texinfo "``")
> (closing-single-quote :utf-8 "”" :html "”" :latex "''" :texinfo "''")
> (opening-double-quote :utf-8 "‘" :html "‘" :latex "`" :texinfo "`")
> (closing-double-quote :utf-8 "’" :html "’" :latex "'" :texinfo "'")
> (apostrophe :utf-8 "’" :html "’"))
> org-export-smart-quotes-alist)
>
> and then adding #+LANGUAGE: en-GB to my input org-mode file (sample input and output below).
>
> Would a patch to this effect be acceptable for a future Org release? (I would also be happy to contribute a documentation patch for the manual).
I think this would be nice. In ox-latex, 'en-GB' is recognized by both
babel or polyglossia.
Rasmus
--
And I faced endless streams of vendor-approved Ikea furniture. . .
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-10-02 20:13 ` Rasmus
@ 2015-10-02 21:55 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-02 22:24 ` Rasmus
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2015-10-02 21:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rasmus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
> Jonathan Oddie <j.j.oddie@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hello Nicolas,
>>
>> Thanks for your response.
>>
>>>> However, I could customize `org-export-smart-quotes-alist' to export
>>>> outer quotes using single quote marks and inner quotes using double
>>>> quote marks.
>>>>
>>>> Is that about right?
>>>
>>> Correct. However, `org-export-smart-quotes-alist' aims to be
>>> typographically correct for all handled languages, so it is not
>>> customizable.
>>
>> In British English, I believe standard typographical style uses single quotation marks for normal quotations, and double quotation marks for inner quotations.
>>
>> I can obtain this behaviour with Org 8.3 by evaluating the following form in *scratch*:
>>
>> (push
>> '("en-GB"
>> (opening-single-quote :utf-8 "“" :html "“" :latex "``" :texinfo "``")
>> (closing-single-quote :utf-8 "”" :html "”" :latex "''" :texinfo "''")
>> (opening-double-quote :utf-8 "‘" :html "‘" :latex "`" :texinfo "`")
>> (closing-double-quote :utf-8 "’" :html "’" :latex "'" :texinfo "'")
>> (apostrophe :utf-8 "’" :html "’"))
>> org-export-smart-quotes-alist)
>>
>> and then adding #+LANGUAGE: en-GB to my input org-mode file (sample input and output below).
>>
>> Would a patch to this effect be acceptable for a future Org release? (I would also be happy to contribute a documentation patch for the manual).
>
> I think this would be nice. In ox-latex, 'en-GB' is recognized by both
> babel or polyglossia.
I agree.
Also, I think it would be clearer to rename `opening-double-quote' to
`opening-primary-quote' and `opening-single-quote' to
`opening-secondary-quote'. WDYT?
Regards,
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-10-02 21:55 ` Nicolas Goaziou
@ 2015-10-02 22:24 ` Rasmus
2015-10-03 7:30 ` Nicolas Goaziou
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Rasmus @ 2015-10-02 22:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:
> Also, I think it would be clearer to rename `opening-double-quote' to
> `opening-primary-quote' and `opening-single-quote' to
> `opening-secondary-quote'. WDYT?
In fact, I thought they needed renaming as well in light of the
redefinition of " and '.
Rasmus
--
Hooray!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-10-02 22:24 ` Rasmus
@ 2015-10-03 7:30 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-12-06 13:55 ` lipidic man
2016-09-15 6:59 ` Suvayu Ali
0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2015-10-03 7:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rasmus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
> Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:
>> Also, I think it would be clearer to rename `opening-double-quote' to
>> `opening-primary-quote' and `opening-single-quote' to
>> `opening-secondary-quote'. WDYT?
>
> In fact, I thought they needed renaming as well in light of the
> redefinition of " and '.
I renamed `opening-double-quote' to `primary-opening' and
`opening-closing-quote' to `secondary-opening'. Ditto for closing parts.
Regards,
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-10-03 7:30 ` Nicolas Goaziou
@ 2015-12-06 13:55 ` lipidic man
2015-12-06 15:28 ` Rasmus
2016-09-15 6:59 ` Suvayu Ali
1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: lipidic man @ 2015-12-06 13:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nicolas Goaziou, Rasmus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1345 bytes --]
Just a note that British-English often uses quotes the same way as the US. It is only in books that we use single outer quotes. Newspapers and the BBC often use double quotes. Headlines however use single quotes, though here they could just be typed manually.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_American_and_British_English#Quoting
It might be appropriate to have the quote setting to be a separate choice from the language, or have two options for en-GB (or we'd just use the US settings, but I am not sure if it affects more than the quotations).
Also, how should the user handle things like 36"? Use a quotation mark and it affects following quotes, use a double prime and LaTeX throws an error about unicode.
On Saturday, 3 October 2015, 8:30, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
> Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:
>> Also, I think it would be clearer to rename `opening-double-quote' to
>> `opening-primary-quote' and `opening-single-quote' to
>> `opening-secondary-quote'. WDYT?
>
> In fact, I thought they needed renaming as well in light of the
> redefinition of " and '.
I renamed `opening-double-quote' to `primary-opening' and
`opening-closing-quote' to `secondary-opening'. Ditto for closing parts.
Regards,
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2949 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-12-06 13:55 ` lipidic man
@ 2015-12-06 15:28 ` Rasmus
2015-12-06 17:45 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-12-06 18:21 ` lipidic man
0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Rasmus @ 2015-12-06 15:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Hi,
lipidic man <lipidicman@yahoo.com> writes:
> Just a note that British-English often uses quotes the same way as the US. It is only in books that we use single outer quotes. Newspapers and the BBC often use double quotes. Headlines however use single quotes, though here they could just be typed manually.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_American_and_British_English#Quoting
Thanks for sharing this.
> It might be appropriate to have the quote setting to be a separate choice from the language, or have two options for en-GB (or we'd just use the US settings, but I am not sure if it affects more than the quotations).
> Also, how should the user handle things like 36"?
Funnily, for "en-us" and "en-gb", this is exported as ’36"’. For "en",
it’s exported as "36``", which I guess is wrong.
> Use a quotation mark and it affects following quotes, use a double prime and LaTeX throws an error about unicode.
Quoting is difficult. The choice for Danish is also highly subjective,
since there’s four different styles for quotations.
The questions is whether we need to allow to set this on a document level.
Or whether it is sufficient to document how users can change
org-export-smart-quotes-alist to their liking. The latter should be
sufficient (assuming an author has one strictly preferred style), but
reproducibility of Org document speaks in favor of a document setting.
Rasmus
--
Sådan en god dansk lagereddike kan man slet ikke bruge mere
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-12-06 15:28 ` Rasmus
@ 2015-12-06 17:45 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-12-06 18:21 ` lipidic man
1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2015-12-06 17:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rasmus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Hello,
Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
> lipidic man <lipidicman@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Also, how should the user handle things like 36"?
>
> Funnily, for "en-us" and "en-gb", this is exported as ’36"’. For "en",
> it’s exported as "36``", which I guess is wrong.
This is not a quote but a "double prime" character. This is out of the
scope of "smart quotes". You may use, for example, \prime and \Prime.
> The questions is whether we need to allow to set this on a document level.
> Or whether it is sufficient to document how users can change
> org-export-smart-quotes-alist to their liking. The latter should be
> sufficient (assuming an author has one strictly preferred style), but
> reproducibility of Org document speaks in favor of a document setting.
Smart quotes can be disabled at a document level, if you have specific
needs. In any case, we can add more country codes to
`org-export-smart-quotes-alist'.
Regards,
--
Nicolas Goaziou
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-12-06 15:28 ` Rasmus
2015-12-06 17:45 ` Nicolas Goaziou
@ 2015-12-06 18:21 ` lipidic man
1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: lipidic man @ 2015-12-06 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rasmus, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Nicolas Goaziou
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 784 bytes --]
Thanks.
I think your solution of using double quotes for outer quotes in the org document and having it changed on export is the way to go. The markup should be consistent and I see how having fewer single quotes helps things work properly.
However this is, at present, completely undocumented. This should be added to the manual. It took a trawl of this list to work out what was going on when I was using 'quotes' like this which is completely natural to us British.
Also, I vote for a setting. It seems that en-gb does nothing at the moment (I'm on the latest stable 8.3.2).
Anyway, no big problem. I now know how to write my org source and can look forward to a solution or work out my own. Just wanted to provide some feedback.
Thanks for all you do.
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1539 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2015-10-03 7:30 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-12-06 13:55 ` lipidic man
@ 2016-09-15 6:59 ` Suvayu Ali
2016-09-15 13:29 ` Nicolas Goaziou
1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Suvayu Ali @ 2016-09-15 6:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode; +Cc: Rasmus
Hello everyone,
It's been a while, I still use Org, just not active on mailing lists.
On Sat, Oct 03, 2015 at 09:30:02AM +0200, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>
> > Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:
> >> Also, I think it would be clearer to rename `opening-double-quote' to
> >> `opening-primary-quote' and `opening-single-quote' to
> >> `opening-secondary-quote'. WDYT?
> >
> > In fact, I thought they needed renaming as well in light of the
> > redefinition of " and '.
>
> I renamed `opening-double-quote' to `primary-opening' and
> `opening-closing-quote' to `secondary-opening'. Ditto for closing parts.
Sorry about resuming an old thread, but how would I go about quoting
special characters? I need to quote strings like '<L', '+L', etc.
Using double quotes here seems wrong.
Any thoughts?
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2016-09-15 6:59 ` Suvayu Ali
@ 2016-09-15 13:29 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2016-09-16 7:08 ` Suvayu Ali
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2016-09-15 13:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode; +Cc: Rasmus
Hello,
Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> writes:
> Sorry about resuming an old thread, but how would I go about quoting
> special characters? I need to quote strings like '<L', '+L', etc.
> Using double quotes here seems wrong.
Why does it seem wrong?
Regards,
--
Nicolas Goaziou
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2016-09-15 13:29 ` Nicolas Goaziou
@ 2016-09-16 7:08 ` Suvayu Ali
2016-09-16 16:40 ` Nicolas Goaziou
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Suvayu Ali @ 2016-09-16 7:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode; +Cc: Rasmus
Hi Nicolas,
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 03:29:09PM +0200, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Sorry about resuming an old thread, but how would I go about quoting
> > special characters? I need to quote strings like '<L', '+L', etc.
> > Using double quotes here seems wrong.
>
> Why does it seem wrong?
It feels wrong as these are not English words, or phrases, but strings
with context dependent special meaning. In my case, these are action
keys in my organisation denoting specific processes.
I also found this English.SX answer:
http://english.stackexchange.com/a/3471
It mentions:
[...] referring to the concept behind the word [...],
as one of the use cases for single quotes.
Cheers,
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)]
2016-09-16 7:08 ` Suvayu Ali
@ 2016-09-16 16:40 ` Nicolas Goaziou
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2016-09-16 16:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode; +Cc: Rasmus
Hello,
Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> writes:
> It feels wrong as these are not English words, or phrases, but strings
> with context dependent special meaning. In my case, these are action
> keys in my organisation denoting specific processes.
>
> I also found this English.SX answer:
>
> http://english.stackexchange.com/a/3471
>
> It mentions:
>
> [...] referring to the concept behind the word [...],
>
> as one of the use cases for single quotes.
There are two things to consider.
1. Double quotes in the Org document are not necessarily exported as
double quotes in the output. It depends on the language used and
`org-export-smart-quotes-alist'.
2. You can always force any type of quotes with entities.
Regards,
--
Nicolas Goaziou
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2016-09-16 16:40 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2015-10-01 22:45 Bug: Exporting smart single quotes in Org 8.3 seems broken [8.3.2 (8.3.2-elpa @ /Users/jonathan/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150929/)] Jonathan Oddie
2015-10-02 16:35 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-02 17:32 ` Jonathan Oddie
2015-10-02 18:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-02 19:36 ` Jonathan Oddie
2015-10-02 20:13 ` Rasmus
2015-10-02 21:55 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-10-02 22:24 ` Rasmus
2015-10-03 7:30 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-12-06 13:55 ` lipidic man
2015-12-06 15:28 ` Rasmus
2015-12-06 17:45 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-12-06 18:21 ` lipidic man
2016-09-15 6:59 ` Suvayu Ali
2016-09-15 13:29 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2016-09-16 7:08 ` Suvayu Ali
2016-09-16 16:40 ` Nicolas Goaziou
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).