Re: [babel] Re: org-babel: Meta-LaTeX-Python-Environment

From: Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk>
To: Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com>
Cc: Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [babel] Re: org-babel: Meta-LaTeX-Python-Environment
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:49:14 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <873a53lb05.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87aazblctf.fsf_-_@stats.ox.ac.uk> (Dan Davison's message of "Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:10:04 -0400")

Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:

> Am I right in thinking that one issue remaining in this thread is that
> we currently have no means of tangling the output of org-babel-latex?
> Thus the 'begin_src latex' blocks that we can tangle have unevaluated
> variables, and the resulting 'begin_latex' blocks have evaluated
> variables but can't be tangled? (We could extend tangling to cover such
> blocks, or perhaps preferably use ':results code' to generate 'begin_src
> latex' blocks?)

Sorry, I see. 'begin_latex' is inserted directly into latex export and
omitted from other export targets. Still, it might sometimes be useful
to use the tangling machinery in which case ':results code' is what is
needed.

Dan

>
> Dan
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>> In response to the implicit question in your comment, perhaps there
>>> isn't a need to embed LaTeX inside source blocks and the uses to which
>>> I put them could be accomplished in org-mode without them.  My
>>> programming skills are pretty crude and I'm aware that I'm a long way
>>> from understanding org-mode and its vast potential.  With that caveat,
>>> here is my $0.02.
>>>
>>
>> I'm also very far from taking full advantage of Org-mode export
>>
>>>
>>> First, practical reasons:
>>>
>>> 1) I'm comfortable writing LaTeX and am particular about the results;
>>> it is hard for me to map the inverse transformation through the org- 
>>> mode LaTeX exporter to express in org the particular LaTeX result I'm
>>> after.
>>>
>>> 2) Someone on the list (Carsten?) mentioned a couple of days ago that
>>> it wasn't reasonable to expect the org LaTeX exporter to capture the
>>> full complexity of LaTeX (I'm paraphrasing, but I think that was the
>>> gist); I ran up against an example of this (or so I think) when trying
>>> to configure export to beamer code, where beamer's use of columns
>>> tripped me up.
>>>
>>
>> I fully understand your point.  I guess that given my personal paucity
>> of latex knowledge and abilities the same need has never occurred to
>> me.  In my case the Org-mode exported generally knows more about latex
>> than I do.
>>
>>>
>>> Second, conceptual reasons:
>>>
>>> 1) I consider writing LaTeX to be programming (here I mean no
>>> disrespect to real programmers) and appreciate being able to do
>>> literate LaTeX programming; the LaTeX source blocks let me write my
>>> beamer presentation a slide or two at a time, just as I want them,
>>> along with an adjacent source block for my print document, just as i
>>> want it, that covers the same conceptual space, while I use the
>>> surrounding org entries to document why I am doing things a particular
>>> way, etc.
>>>
>>
>> I see, you are using the org-mode file "a level above" the direct
>> export.  Maybe another option here would be to tag headlines based on
>> which export target they are included within, and then base your exports
>> on the headline tags (using #+EXPORT_INCLUDE_TAGS:), although I agree
>> this also seems like an appropriate place to use the tangle
>> functionality.
>>
>>>
>>> 2) I think this workflow, with an org-mode meta-document that
>>> encapsulates the print document and presentation materials, along with
>>> the SQL, R, and Python code used to create the datasets and analyze
>>> them, takes org-babel a step closer to realizing its potential as a
>>> tool for reproducible research.  Here, I am thinking of an org
>>> document that captures the ways in which a piece of research is one
>>> logical path among many possibilities, implemented and expressed in
>>> one particular way (or two, if you want to distinguish print from
>>> presentation) among many possibilities.
>>>
>>> The LaTeX source blocks in org-babel give me an easy and natural way
>>> to accomplish these things.  In the short time I've used them, they've
>>> yielded results that impress me.  I'm confident they hold much more
>>> potential than I've been able to tap.
>>>
>>
>> I didn't mean to imply that because I didn't understand the need for
>> direct inclusion of latex code there *wasn't* a need for direct
>> inclusion of latex code :) Thanks for the explanation.
>>
>>>
>>> It is a real pleasure leveraging your good work.
>>>
>>
>> It is a pleasure to be able to participate in such a nice open-source
>> community. -- Eric
>>
>>>
>>> Tom
>>
>>
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