From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Dan Davison Subject: Re: [babel] Re: org-babel: Meta-LaTeX-Python-Environment Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:49:14 -0400 Message-ID: <873a53lb05.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> References: <200910261327.09576.torsten.wagner@googlemail.com> <878wexheeq.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <4edb2bbc0910270757i3911f817jd99bc68eb4639e31@mail.gmail.com> <87aazblctf.fsf_-_@stats.ox.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N3Bi7-0001bc-EG for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:49:23 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N3Bi2-0001Va-7W for Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:49:22 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55394 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N3Bi2-0001VS-3l for Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:49:18 -0400 Received: from markov.stats.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.210.1]:42624) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1N3Bi1-0001u2-HH for Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:49:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87aazblctf.fsf_-_@stats.ox.ac.uk> (Dan Davison's message of "Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:10:04 -0400") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Eric Schulte Cc: Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Dan Davison writes: > Am I right in thinking that one issue remaining in this thread is that > we currently have no means of tangling the output of org-babel-latex? > Thus the 'begin_src latex' blocks that we can tangle have unevaluated > variables, and the resulting 'begin_latex' blocks have evaluated > variables but can't be tangled? (We could extend tangling to cover such > blocks, or perhaps preferably use ':results code' to generate 'begin_src > latex' blocks?) Sorry, I see. 'begin_latex' is inserted directly into latex export and omitted from other export targets. Still, it might sometimes be useful to use the tangling machinery in which case ':results code' is what is needed. Dan > > Dan > > > >> >>> >>> In response to the implicit question in your comment, perhaps there >>> isn't a need to embed LaTeX inside source blocks and the uses to which >>> I put them could be accomplished in org-mode without them. My >>> programming skills are pretty crude and I'm aware that I'm a long way >>> from understanding org-mode and its vast potential. With that caveat, >>> here is my $0.02. >>> >> >> I'm also very far from taking full advantage of Org-mode export >> >>> >>> First, practical reasons: >>> >>> 1) I'm comfortable writing LaTeX and am particular about the results; >>> it is hard for me to map the inverse transformation through the org- >>> mode LaTeX exporter to express in org the particular LaTeX result I'm >>> after. >>> >>> 2) Someone on the list (Carsten?) mentioned a couple of days ago that >>> it wasn't reasonable to expect the org LaTeX exporter to capture the >>> full complexity of LaTeX (I'm paraphrasing, but I think that was the >>> gist); I ran up against an example of this (or so I think) when trying >>> to configure export to beamer code, where beamer's use of columns >>> tripped me up. >>> >> >> I fully understand your point. I guess that given my personal paucity >> of latex knowledge and abilities the same need has never occurred to >> me. In my case the Org-mode exported generally knows more about latex >> than I do. >> >>> >>> Second, conceptual reasons: >>> >>> 1) I consider writing LaTeX to be programming (here I mean no >>> disrespect to real programmers) and appreciate being able to do >>> literate LaTeX programming; the LaTeX source blocks let me write my >>> beamer presentation a slide or two at a time, just as I want them, >>> along with an adjacent source block for my print document, just as i >>> want it, that covers the same conceptual space, while I use the >>> surrounding org entries to document why I am doing things a particular >>> way, etc. >>> >> >> I see, you are using the org-mode file "a level above" the direct >> export. Maybe another option here would be to tag headlines based on >> which export target they are included within, and then base your exports >> on the headline tags (using #+EXPORT_INCLUDE_TAGS:), although I agree >> this also seems like an appropriate place to use the tangle >> functionality. >> >>> >>> 2) I think this workflow, with an org-mode meta-document that >>> encapsulates the print document and presentation materials, along with >>> the SQL, R, and Python code used to create the datasets and analyze >>> them, takes org-babel a step closer to realizing its potential as a >>> tool for reproducible research. Here, I am thinking of an org >>> document that captures the ways in which a piece of research is one >>> logical path among many possibilities, implemented and expressed in >>> one particular way (or two, if you want to distinguish print from >>> presentation) among many possibilities. >>> >>> The LaTeX source blocks in org-babel give me an easy and natural way >>> to accomplish these things. In the short time I've used them, they've >>> yielded results that impress me. I'm confident they hold much more >>> potential than I've been able to tap. >>> >> >> I didn't mean to imply that because I didn't understand the need for >> direct inclusion of latex code there *wasn't* a need for direct >> inclusion of latex code :) Thanks for the explanation. >> >>> >>> It is a real pleasure leveraging your good work. >>> >> >> It is a pleasure to be able to participate in such a nice open-source >> community. -- Eric >> >>> >>> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode