* different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
@ 2017-05-30 6:20 Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-05-30 6:51 ` Nicolas Goaziou
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Christophe Helary @ 2017-05-30 6:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs
I've just filed a bug report on emacs and was advised to report it here too.
It's bug#27140.
Basically, when I start GUI emacs (macOS, but also Aquamacs, also reported in Xubuntu and GTK+/Linux), I don't get the default org-mode bindings. Only emacs -nw gets them.
Even if I start both with -Q, I get the exact same behavior: proper default key bindings for org-mode in emacs -nw, some bindings overridden in GUI emacs.
The discussion thread on help-gnu-emacs is here:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2017-05/msg00306.html
Let me know if you need extra information.
Jean-Christophe
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-30 6:20 different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw Jean-Christophe Helary
@ 2017-05-30 6:51 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2017-05-30 7:37 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2017-05-30 6:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jean-Christophe Helary; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs, emacs-orgmode
Hello,
Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary@gmail.com> writes:
> I've just filed a bug report on emacs and was advised to report it here too.
>
> It's bug#27140.
>
> Basically, when I start GUI emacs (macOS, but also Aquamacs, also reported in Xubuntu and GTK+/Linux), I don't get the default org-mode bindings. Only emacs -nw gets them.
>
> Even if I start both with -Q, I get the exact same behavior: proper default key bindings for org-mode in emacs -nw, some bindings overridden in GUI emacs.
>
> The discussion thread on help-gnu-emacs is here:
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2017-05/msg00306.html
>
> Let me know if you need extra information.
What happens if you replace, e.g.,
(org-defkey org-mode-map [(meta left)] 'org-metaleft)
with
(org-defkey org-mode-map (kbd "M-<left>") 'org-metaleft)
in "org.el"?
Regards,
--
Nicolas Goaziou
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-30 6:51 ` Nicolas Goaziou
@ 2017-05-30 7:37 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-05-30 12:21 ` Tim Visher
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Christophe Helary @ 2017-05-30 7:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode, help-gnu-emacs
> On May 30, 2017, at 15:51, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
>
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2017-05/msg00306.html
>>
>> Let me know if you need extra information.
>
> What happens if you replace, e.g.,
>
> (org-defkey org-mode-map [(meta left)] 'org-metaleft)
>
> with
>
> (org-defkey org-mode-map (kbd "M-<left>") 'org-metaleft)
>
> in "org.el"?
Nothing changes.
Jean-Christophe
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-30 7:37 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
@ 2017-05-30 12:21 ` Tim Visher
2017-05-30 12:29 ` [org] " Jean-Christophe Helary
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Tim Visher @ 2017-05-30 12:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jean-Christophe Helary; +Cc: emacs, emacs-orgmode
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Sometimes your Terminal application captures these 'extended' bindings. If
you know that your Terminal application isn't doing that (for instance, by
using key sequence help like `<f1> k M-<left>`) then I don't have any other
help to offer. I've always just accepted that org mode keybindings differ
between terminal and gui.
On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:37 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary <
jean.christophe.helary@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 30, 2017, at 15:51, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
> wrote:
> >
> >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2017-05/msg00306.html
> >>
> >> Let me know if you need extra information.
> >
> > What happens if you replace, e.g.,
> >
> > (org-defkey org-mode-map [(meta left)] 'org-metaleft)
> >
> > with
> >
> > (org-defkey org-mode-map (kbd "M-<left>") 'org-metaleft)
> >
> > in "org.el"?
>
> Nothing changes.
>
> Jean-Christophe
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* [org] different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-30 12:21 ` Tim Visher
@ 2017-05-30 12:29 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-05-30 13:29 ` Scott Randby
2017-05-30 13:50 ` Tim Visher
0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Christophe Helary @ 2017-05-30 12:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode, emacs
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> On May 30, 2017, at 21:21, Tim Visher <tim.visher@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sometimes your Terminal application captures these 'extended' bindings.
It is the opposite that's happening. Terminal works fine. It is the GUI that does not accept the bindings. And as I wrote, it is not limited to my macOS (Emacs.app and Aquamacs show the same behavior) but to other people's GTK+ linux or Xubuntu. So it seems that's something that aught to be investigated and eventually fixed.
> I've always just accepted that org mode keybindings differ between terminal and gui.
Except that I don't *have* most bindings in GUI. There is probably a rational reason what that is happening. I'm fine with helping with the investigation but I fear that's an area where I can't do much more than that.
Jean-Christophe
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:37 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary@gmail.com <mailto:jean.christophe.helary@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > On May 30, 2017, at 15:51, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr <mailto:mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>> wrote:
> >
> >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2017-05/msg00306.html <http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2017-05/msg00306.html>
> >>
> >> Let me know if you need extra information.
> >
> > What happens if you replace, e.g.,
> >
> > (org-defkey org-mode-map [(meta left)] 'org-metaleft)
> >
> > with
> >
> > (org-defkey org-mode-map (kbd "M-<left>") 'org-metaleft)
> >
> > in "org.el"?
>
> Nothing changes.
>
> Jean-Christophe
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [org] different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-30 12:29 ` [org] " Jean-Christophe Helary
@ 2017-05-30 13:29 ` Scott Randby
2017-05-30 16:49 ` Charles C. Berry
2017-05-30 13:50 ` Tim Visher
1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Scott Randby @ 2017-05-30 13:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
On 05/30/2017 08:29 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote:
> It is the opposite that's happening. Terminal works fine. It is the GUI
> that does not accept the bindings. And as I wrote, it is not limited to
> my macOS (Emacs.app and Aquamacs show the same behavior) but to other
> people's GTK+ linux or Xubuntu. So it seems that's something that aught
> to be investigated and eventually fixed.
I have no issues on Xubuntu with Org key bindings. I'm using Emacs
24.5.1 and Org 9.0.3 on Xubuntu 16.04.
Scott Randby
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [org] different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-30 13:29 ` Scott Randby
@ 2017-05-30 16:49 ` Charles C. Berry
2017-05-30 22:28 ` Tim Cross
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Charles C. Berry @ 2017-05-30 16:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Scott Randby; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
On Tue, 30 May 2017, Scott Randby wrote:
> On 05/30/2017 08:29 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote:
>> It is the opposite that's happening. Terminal works fine. It is the GUI
>> that does not accept the bindings. And as I wrote, it is not limited to
>> my macOS (Emacs.app and Aquamacs show the same behavior) but to other
>> people's GTK+ linux or Xubuntu. So it seems that's something that aught
>> to be investigated and eventually fixed.
Not by the org team, I think. As Scott reports:
>
> I have no issues on Xubuntu with Org key bindings. I'm using Emacs
> 24.5.1 and Org 9.0.3 on Xubuntu 16.04.
I have no issues either on
macOS Sierra 10.12.5 Emacs.app 25.1.1 Org 9.0.7
AFAICS, the GUI Emacs.app runs as advertised and there is nothing wrong
with Org. There are a lot of us who use macOS and Org with no issues with
M-<left/right>, so it is hard to see how this is an org-mode issue.
Some additional data points:
M-<left> promotes and M-<right> demotes headlines using the usual GUI app.
The Terminal is tricky:
In the Terminal using Emacs.app, with Edit Menu - Use Option As Meta Key
selected:
I get promote/demote if I use S-<Option Key> <left/right> or C-<Option
Key> <left/right>.
ESC <left/right> runs promote/demote regardless of Option as Meta setting.
<Option Key>-<left/right> runs M-b/f regardless of Option as Meta setting.
Running C-h k <some key combo involving Option> shows that the Terminal
doesn't see Option as Meta in the way I would expect.
So, if there is a problem on my setup it lies in the Terminal.app or some
plist that governs it.
HTH,
Chuck
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [org] different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-30 16:49 ` Charles C. Berry
@ 2017-05-30 22:28 ` Tim Cross
2017-05-30 22:44 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Tim Cross @ 2017-05-30 22:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Charles C. Berry; +Cc: Scott Randby, Org-mode
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Just add my confirmation that I have no issues with GUI bindings on either
MacOS Sierra with emacs 25.2 and org 9.0.7 or under Linux with Ubuntu 17.04
(same emacs and org versions).
What happens if
1. You use emacs -q and just load the version of org which is bundled with
emacs?
2. you use emacs -q and just load latest org from elpa?
On the mac, I do have
#+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
(when *is-a-mac*
(setq mac-command-modifier 'meta)
(setq mac-option-modifier 'none)
(setq dired-free-space-program "gdf")
(setq insert-directory-program "gls")
(setq default-input-method "MacOSX")
;; Make mouse wheel / trackpad scrolling less jerky
(setq mouse-wheel-scroll-amount '(1 ((shift) . 5)
((control))))
(dolist (multiple '("" "double-" "triple-"))
(dolist (direction '("right" "left"))
(global-set-key (read-kbd-macro
(concat "<" multiple "wheel-" direction ">"))
'ignore)))
(bind-key "M-'" 'ns-next-frame)
(bind-key "M-h" 'ns-do-hide-emacs)
(bind-key "M-`" 'ms-do-hide-others)
(use-package applescript-mode
:ensure t
:mode ("\\.applescript" . applescript-mode))
(use-package osx-plist
:ensure t)
(use-package osx-trash
:ensure t
:config (osx-trash-setup)))
#+END_SRC
On 31 May 2017 at 02:49, Charles C. Berry <ccberry@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 May 2017, Scott Randby wrote:
>
> On 05/30/2017 08:29 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote:
>>
>>> It is the opposite that's happening. Terminal works fine. It is the GUI
>>> that does not accept the bindings. And as I wrote, it is not limited to
>>> my macOS (Emacs.app and Aquamacs show the same behavior) but to other
>>> people's GTK+ linux or Xubuntu. So it seems that's something that aught
>>> to be investigated and eventually fixed.
>>>
>>
> Not by the org team, I think. As Scott reports:
>
>
>> I have no issues on Xubuntu with Org key bindings. I'm using Emacs
>> 24.5.1 and Org 9.0.3 on Xubuntu 16.04.
>>
>
> I have no issues either on
>
> macOS Sierra 10.12.5 Emacs.app 25.1.1 Org 9.0.7
>
>
> AFAICS, the GUI Emacs.app runs as advertised and there is nothing wrong
> with Org. There are a lot of us who use macOS and Org with no issues with
> M-<left/right>, so it is hard to see how this is an org-mode issue.
>
> Some additional data points:
>
> M-<left> promotes and M-<right> demotes headlines using the usual GUI app.
>
> The Terminal is tricky:
>
> In the Terminal using Emacs.app, with Edit Menu - Use Option As Meta Key
> selected:
>
> I get promote/demote if I use S-<Option Key> <left/right> or C-<Option
> Key> <left/right>.
>
> ESC <left/right> runs promote/demote regardless of Option as Meta setting.
>
> <Option Key>-<left/right> runs M-b/f regardless of Option as Meta setting.
>
> Running C-h k <some key combo involving Option> shows that the Terminal
> doesn't see Option as Meta in the way I would expect.
>
> So, if there is a problem on my setup it lies in the Terminal.app or some
> plist that governs it.
>
> HTH,
>
> Chuck
>
>
--
regards,
Tim
--
Tim Cross
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread* Re: [org] different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-30 22:28 ` Tim Cross
@ 2017-05-30 22:44 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-05-31 2:38 ` Tim Cross
[not found] ` <08b74f516e674173b7489d0e2e813e83@HE1PR01MB1898.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Christophe Helary @ 2017-05-30 22:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tim Cross; +Cc: Scott Randby, Org-mode, Charles C. Berry
> On May 31, 2017, at 7:28, Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just add my confirmation that I have no issues with GUI bindings on either MacOS Sierra with emacs 25.2 and org 9.0.7 or under Linux with Ubuntu 17.04 (same emacs and org versions).
There were *some* people on help-emacs that could reproduce the issue on GTK+ and Xubuntu, I'm not saying it's everybody :)
> What happens if
>
> 1. You use emacs -q and just load the version of org which is bundled with emacs?
I've checked -Q with the bundled files and I get the same result.
> 2. you use emacs -q and just load latest org from elpa?
I always keep my packages up to date so I guess I have the latest package. I'll check.
Jean-Christophe
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread* Re: [org] different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-30 22:44 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
@ 2017-05-31 2:38 ` Tim Cross
2017-05-31 3:51 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
[not found] ` <08b74f516e674173b7489d0e2e813e83@HE1PR01MB1898.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Tim Cross @ 2017-05-31 2:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jean-Christophe Helary; +Cc: Scott Randby, Org-mode, Charles C. Berry
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It is certainly a weird issue.
I can't see how org-mode would behave differently at the OS level from
other emacs package bindings. Likewise, there is nothing different or
unusual about how org-mode does key bindings. If there was a problem at the
OS, window manager or interface library (i.e. gtk) level, it should affect
all bindings.
I'm sure this has been checked, but make sure it isn't the window
manager/OS 'stealing' the keys. When I install emacs on any system, the
first thing I do is use the OS or window manager facilities to
remove/disable any OS/window manager shortcuts so that the key presses get
passed through to Emacs. I doubt this is the problem because if it was, you
would see the same issue iwth other Emacs modes/packages, not just
org-mode.
Unless someone can produce a minimum example which can reproduce this
issue, I don't even see where to start.
I shold have mentioned that the version of Ubuntu I use is Gnome and I
build emacs with GTK.
I should also mention that Ubuntu (well Debian really) install a versino of
emacs which is customized and not stock-stnadard emacs. Also, my macOS
version of emcs is built using brew install and not brew cask install, so
it is built from the git repo and not using the macforosx binaries the cask
version uses.
Tim
On 31 May 2017 at 08:44, Jean-Christophe Helary <
jean.christophe.helary@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 31, 2017, at 7:28, Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Just add my confirmation that I have no issues with GUI bindings on
> either MacOS Sierra with emacs 25.2 and org 9.0.7 or under Linux with
> Ubuntu 17.04 (same emacs and org versions).
>
> There were *some* people on help-emacs that could reproduce the issue on
> GTK+ and Xubuntu, I'm not saying it's everybody :)
>
> > What happens if
> >
> > 1. You use emacs -q and just load the version of org which is bundled
> with emacs?
>
> I've checked -Q with the bundled files and I get the same result.
>
> > 2. you use emacs -q and just load latest org from elpa?
>
> I always keep my packages up to date so I guess I have the latest package.
> I'll check.
>
> Jean-Christophe
--
regards,
Tim
--
Tim Cross
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread* Re: [org] different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-31 2:38 ` Tim Cross
@ 2017-05-31 3:51 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-05-31 6:20 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Christophe Helary @ 2017-05-31 3:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tim Cross; +Cc: Scott Randby, Org-mode, Charles C. Berry
> On May 31, 2017, at 11:38, Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It is certainly a weird issue.
I couldn't agree more :)
> If there was a problem at the OS, window manager or interface library (i.e. gtk) level, it should affect all bindings.
That's correct.
Basically, what happens in that in GUI mode, the ESC key is not recognized as META in org-mode (only as far as I can tell).
> I should also mention that Ubuntu (well Debian really) install a versino of emacs which is customized and not stock-stnadard emacs. Also, my macOS version of emcs is built using brew install and not brew cask install, so it is built from the git repo and not using the macforosx binaries the cask version uses.
This morning I have installed emacs from macport (emacs-app-devel) and I've also built it from the repository (./configure with-ns).
In the locally build version Esc-Left promotes a header. But Esc-Right does not demote it, it only moves to the next word.
Macport emacs shows the same behavior as brew emacs: in GUI, Esc is not recognized as Meta.
Weird.
Jean-Christophe
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [org] different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-31 3:51 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
@ 2017-05-31 6:20 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Christophe Helary @ 2017-05-31 6:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tim Cross; +Cc: Scott Randby, Org-mode, Charles C. Berry
Apologies,
> On May 31, 2017, at 12:51, Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary@gmail.com> wrote:
> This morning I have installed emacs from macport (emacs-app-devel) and I've also built it from the repository (./configure with-ns).
>
> In the locally build version Esc-Left promotes a header. But Esc-Right does not demote it, it only moves to the next word.
The above it incorrect. I had modified the file before the build. I get the same result as I've got so far. Sorry for that.
Jean-Christophe
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <08b74f516e674173b7489d0e2e813e83@HE1PR01MB1898.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>]
* Re: [org] different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
[not found] ` <08b74f516e674173b7489d0e2e813e83@HE1PR01MB1898.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
@ 2017-05-31 10:01 ` Eric S Fraga
2017-05-31 10:19 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2017-05-31 10:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
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On Wednesday, 31 May 2017 at 02:38, Tim Cross wrote:
> I'm sure this has been checked, but make sure it isn't the window
> manager/OS 'stealing' the keys. When I install emacs on any system,
My own experience over the years is that this is indeed usually the
culprit, especially for keys such as M-arrows which are often bound to
functions like changing workspace views.
--
Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D)
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread* Re: [org] different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-31 10:01 ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2017-05-31 10:19 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Christophe Helary @ 2017-05-31 10:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Org-mode
> On May 31, 2017, at 19:01, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, 31 May 2017 at 02:38, Tim Cross wrote:
>> I'm sure this has been checked, but make sure it isn't the window
>> manager/OS 'stealing' the keys. When I install emacs on any system,
>
> My own experience over the years is that this is indeed usually the
> culprit, especially for keys such as M-arrows which are often bound to
> functions like changing workspace views.
In this case, M-Left (ESC-left) triggers backward-word instead of the expected org-promote-subtree.
It does not seem to me that the OS is stealing anything.
Jean-Christophe
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [org] different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw
2017-05-30 12:29 ` [org] " Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-05-30 13:29 ` Scott Randby
@ 2017-05-30 13:50 ` Tim Visher
1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Tim Visher @ 2017-05-30 13:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jean-Christophe Helary; +Cc: emacs, emacs-orgmode
On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary <
jean.christophe.helary@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On May 30, 2017, at 21:21, Tim Visher <tim.visher@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sometimes your Terminal application captures these 'extended' bindings.
>
>
> It is the opposite that's happening. Terminal works fine. It is the GUI
> that does not accept the bindings. And as I wrote, it is not limited to my
> macOS (Emacs.app and Aquamacs show the same behavior) but to other people's
> GTK+ linux or Xubuntu. So it seems that's something that aught to be
> investigated and eventually fixed.
>
Ah I'm sorry. I misread the OP. That is strange.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2017-05-31 10:19 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2017-05-30 6:20 different key binding between GUI emacs and emacs -nw Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-05-30 6:51 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2017-05-30 7:37 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-05-30 12:21 ` Tim Visher
2017-05-30 12:29 ` [org] " Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-05-30 13:29 ` Scott Randby
2017-05-30 16:49 ` Charles C. Berry
2017-05-30 22:28 ` Tim Cross
2017-05-30 22:44 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-05-31 2:38 ` Tim Cross
2017-05-31 3:51 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-05-31 6:20 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
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2017-05-31 10:01 ` Eric S Fraga
2017-05-31 10:19 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-05-30 13:50 ` Tim Visher
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