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From: daniela-spit@gmx.it
To: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
Subject: Re: Adding Org Files to org-agenda-files
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 18:38:17 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <trinity-67dfaf28-41ef-4556-9803-563606f163d4-1606671497525@3c-app-mailcom-bs12> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87zh30xfl1.fsf@gmail.com>



> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 6:01 PM
> From: "Tim Cross" <theophilusx@gmail.com>
> To: daniela-spit@gmx.it
> Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, "Jean Louis" <bugs@gnu.support>
> Subject: Re: Adding Org Files to org-agenda-files
>
>
> daniela-spit@gmx.it writes:
>
> >> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 5:46 AM
> >> From: "Jean Louis" <bugs@gnu.support>
> >> To: daniela-spit@gmx.it
> >> Cc: "Org-Mode mailing list" <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
> >> Subject: Re: Adding Org Files to org-agenda-files
> >>
> >> * daniela-spit@gmx.it <daniela-spit@gmx.it> [2020-11-29 02:30]:
> >> > > What you see as a problem some see as a solution. For instance, it depends how many
> >> > > org-files you want to add to the agenda. Some users including me have 2
> >> > > or three files in  org-agenda-files so I never interact with this
> >> > > variable directly.
> >> >
> >> > I have many and they change quite frequently, depending on project.
> >> > So often torture emacs hard.  Have sent a bug-report about it.  Keen
> >> > for a change to go through.
> >>
> >> You may customize any Emacs variables yourself. Just define your
> >> agenda files yourself in your init file. Then do:
> >>
> >> {M-x customize-variables RET org-agenda-files RET} and erase what you
> >> find there.
> >>
> >> Anything before the `custom' section in your init file will be then
> >> defined by you and not by the built in system.
> >>
> >> In that case you should take care as user over time not to use
> >> org-agenda-file-to-front command as that would again start adding
> >> agend files to init file. Then just use your own settings.
> >>
> >> As long as you have your own settings hard coded you may erase the
> >> variable org-agenda-files
> >
> > That worries me because I do not want to change the behaviuor of Emacs
> > for users.  Otherwise when people ask for help they will become confused.
>
> Just a small clarification on the above directions.
>
> If you have *both* a settings in your emacs init file for
> org-agenda-files using (setq org-agenda-files...) and you have a line in
> your (custom ...) section, you should remove one of them to avoid
> confusion. In general, what is in the custom section will take
> preference as it is usually loaded last. If your going to remove the one
> in the custom section, run M-x customize-variable <ret> org-agenda-files
> <ret> and then select the options under the 'state' button to 'Erase
> Customisation', don't just erase the values in the 'Value Menu' box.

Emacs automatically introduced the custom, did not write it myself.

> I'm not sure if I would classify the problem you ran into as a bug or
> user error. Emacs has 2 main ways to customise behaviour. either you can
> do it manually using things like (setq ...) in your init file, *OR* you
> can use the customize interface to make the changes using a high level
> 'widget' base UI. This all works pretty well unless you try to use both
> methods to customise the same thing.

Yes, if one uses Emacs Customise Behaviour, that's what happens.  But I was
not using that.  Helping people using elisp must be encouraged, because it
opens up many possibilities.

> In your case, the correct way to update the org-agenda-files list was to
> edit your init file, remove the reference to the missing file and then
> re-evaluae the variable. this is because you have decided to manage that
> variable yourself using setq.
>
> The other alternative is to remove the setq setting from your init file
> and then set your agenda file list using customize. The critical point
> is not to use both - one or the other.
>
> Many people will use a combination of some things set by hand in their
> init file and other things set using the customise interface. This is
> fine but you must ensure you don't use both for the same thing.
>
> In your case, because you are not use to configuring Emacs manually, I
> would strongly recommend you stick to using the customise interface.
> Later, when your more use to customising Emacs, you can move to doing
> your customisation in your init file by hand (if you want/need to - many
> never do and just use the customisation interface). The customisation
> interface is great when your not use to Elisp and don't yet know how to
> re-evaluate expressions etc. I know lots of users where the only thing
> in their init file is the custom section. All of their customisation is
> done using the custom interface and they are never required to write a
> single line of elisp.
>
> The org-agenda-files variable is also a little more complicated than
> most configuration variables because org allows you to add/remove files
> from that list interactively as well. For these interactive changes to
> persist across sessions, Emacs has to store them somewhere and it uses
> the custom section of your init file to do this. It cannot update your
> manual setting with setq because that would require parsing and
> modifying user controlled/written configuration code, which can be very
> complicated and could be spread over many different files (some people
> with large complex manual configurations will break them up into
> separate files and include them using (reqire...) or load. This makes
> updating such settings very dangerous. On the other hand, the custom
> section is managed by Emacs and not modified by hand, so it can store
> the updated list in that section safely, which means the changes will
> persist across sessions.
>
> for this reason, I would recommend using custom to set/modify your
> agenda file list and copletely delete the (setq org-agenda-files...)
> from your init file.
>
> You might still consider how this works to be a bug because the way it
> works is confusing. However, it is very difficult for Emacs to deal with
> the situation where you have both manual configuration and custom
> section configuration for the same thing. Emacs does what I think is the
> sane things - gives priority to the custom section (actually, this can
> also be changed, but lets not go down another rabbit hole).

> The other alternative is to remove the setq setting from your init file
> and then set your agenda file list using customize. The critical point
> is not to use both - one or the other.

> --
> Tim Cross
>
>


  reply	other threads:[~2020-11-29 17:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 52+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-11-28 15:39 daniela-spit
2020-11-28 16:51 ` Jeremie Juste
2020-11-28 16:54   ` daniela-spit
2020-11-28 17:01   ` daniela-spit
2020-11-28 17:41     ` Jeremie Juste
2020-11-28 18:12       ` daniela-spit
2020-11-28 18:30       ` daniela-spit
2020-11-28 18:43       ` daniela-spit
2020-11-28 19:01         ` Jeremie Juste
2020-11-28 19:16           ` daniela-spit
2020-11-28 19:26             ` Detlef Steuer
2020-11-28 19:44               ` daniela-spit
2020-11-28 19:55             ` Jeremie Juste
2020-11-28 20:06               ` daniela-spit
2020-11-28 20:11               ` daniela-spit
2020-11-28 20:27                 ` Jeremie Juste
2020-11-28 20:40                   ` daniela-spit
2020-11-28 21:32                     ` Jeremie Juste
2020-11-28 21:45                       ` daniela-spit
2020-11-28 23:18                         ` Jeremie Juste
2020-11-28 23:29                           ` daniela-spit
2020-11-29  1:36                             ` Tim Cross
2020-11-29  2:54                               ` daniela-spit
2020-11-29  3:51                                 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-29  4:05                                   ` daniela-spit
2020-11-29  5:23                                     ` Tim Cross
2020-11-29  9:30                                       ` Jean Louis
2020-11-29  6:50                                     ` Jean Louis
2020-11-29  6:41                                   ` Jean Louis
2020-11-29 12:28                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2020-11-29 13:00                                       ` Tim Cross
2020-11-29 17:11                                         ` Jean Louis
2020-11-29 17:05                                       ` Jean Louis
2020-12-01  2:24                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2020-12-01  8:59                                           ` Jean Louis
2020-12-13 15:36                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2020-12-13 16:27                                               ` steve-humphreys
2020-12-25  2:17                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2020-12-13 20:21                                               ` Jean Louis
2020-12-13 20:59                                               ` Tim Cross
2020-12-13 21:59                                                 ` pietru
2020-12-13 23:28                                                 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-29  4:46                             ` Jean Louis
2020-11-29 14:46                               ` daniela-spit
2020-11-29 17:01                                 ` Tim Cross
2020-11-29 17:38                                   ` daniela-spit [this message]
2020-11-29 20:55                                     ` Jeremie Juste
2020-11-30  0:21                                       ` Tim Cross
2020-11-28 23:36                           ` daniela-spit
2020-11-29  5:51                             ` Jean Louis
2020-11-28 20:28                 ` daniela-spit
2020-11-28 18:50       ` daniela-spit

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