From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id mKV/FdXcw1+ZcAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:39:33 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id EB9CEdXcw18WHAAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:39:33 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75AC4940367 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:39:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:45740 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kjQfb-0003v9-F9 for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:39:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49432) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kjQez-0003uz-KF for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:38:53 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:40907) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kjQex-0000Iq-5U for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:38:53 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1606671497; bh=Jy/q2qvzOsdeMBYmbSG+RGlXNnMPxbOQuRhakd1tJ3c=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=ITITX3QSZVnlEflW9tk70eKjpp8T9Zge7AK3rWV+IT4JAnPnTEgvDUw5ZHow+V9HE E8AAvDOp0Fq9c57Y6a3aA5+Eh/FtB/XvNMPdSa6lLonPdCVLRASnSFSX0dNjj19OH9 1BWF3OSBvlJL5lKljypqv/k7oc0BqL9Up1iNVHIY= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs12.server.lan [172.19.170.180]) (via HTTP); Sun, 29 Nov 2020 18:38:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: daniela-spit@gmx.it To: Tim Cross Subject: Re: Adding Org Files to org-agenda-files Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 18:38:17 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <87zh30xfl1.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ft4tfgpv.fsf@gmail.com> <874kl9fe7m.fsf@gmail.com> <87wny5dy6j.fsf@gmail.com> <87r1od181i.fsf@gmail.com> <87h7p9135u.fsf@gmail.com> <87zh30xfl1.fsf@gmail.com> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:RiDE6IANrswHYBidkUHj/fwoZYi+lDrLywMscAzvjl/VQSbgCB7AYPWfhpPe3gYpKwvyU fyHg0BC8Jfj7HiYdKBNer9+7nZ+wm1brQwg4sw04kKIKDoRVKCjStyElcMH5VahJ5vzdpaw0F7nC EprzPO9c9l1OC+epX5DL3Mv8/qmRFDjjPbwhDTmgOLJKksOnG++chGJZXlPfY5pL52oiuDWzNfMK Omt5Nosyh3h+98JuMSTyithKkHcMg+HsqOnXQ67hP4bszCXgJ+jkPesR0L4pgCj41FogIv9bb1Sa mY= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:hUnjNXoOi7M=:CnSallOE5c31vqMhO5Lmr8 +EICPPDOqm/KH0DyRM0SSLKTF1XBgIrAsQuJN2lyzeTvlBI5GKkPUlc6cuEolxK3I2a7Dryy5 nerr5pF2v5t/ucaRhkKoEaI6TscuolGj7/vQOim3CjSs01vJV5h7hyP1V9OsFkwGmb8Mg3J76 j/jRbqwIU7/WoljHyyVW4SZdhKxRZsmpK++WGbGOwNjkNzo37heI6j7W5SSrOFL7EDNg98apN zb+BzkEWla0w76L64oLS5OT5kcVzW8VCKpX/l/j53fSdnpnrQYk8aZirqmy1l8JSeBQPOeMlk IetkMwbTACgb7FKsYhi5rsXMt1sv/4kLUrAK7J7hre+U3/XI9+GQfXPNV3/7dHSkzXkQroCTh 7NrdvPOZ7quQzKoM5OrDbKuOlVsA3yJGHW29AAVQD8whZ03/1NFyRVELEAif4HKPA7AwJ86/2 3/S2gmtOjPT9ddo2/XTzREMVNCp6guY1AlPpulrpdV8di+dQfd/4djXvkyxAm4/Za+SsmUJmQ JkMLWgcIRukYU3xsSGQA4ZU39hSltL9oJ4LaSG3/qwrvmJ9fMfoMMg233vSgQPi1HIJ3OHuI9 NdimBbYCG05Cg= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=daniela-spit@gmx.it; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Jean Louis Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.98 X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmx.net header.s=badeba3b8450 header.b=ITITX3QS; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-TUID: dtVIbovCS0Lk > Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 6:01 PM > From: "Tim Cross" > To: daniela-spit@gmx.it > Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, "Jean Louis" > Subject: Re: Adding Org Files to org-agenda-files > > > daniela-spit@gmx.it writes: > > >> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 5:46 AM > >> From: "Jean Louis" > >> To: daniela-spit@gmx.it > >> Cc: "Org-Mode mailing list" > >> Subject: Re: Adding Org Files to org-agenda-files > >> > >> * daniela-spit@gmx.it [2020-11-29 02:30]: > >> > > What you see as a problem some see as a solution. For instance, i= t depends how many > >> > > org-files you want to add to the agenda. Some users including me = have 2 > >> > > or three files in org-agenda-files so I never interact with this > >> > > variable directly. > >> > > >> > I have many and they change quite frequently, depending on project. > >> > So often torture emacs hard. Have sent a bug-report about it. Kee= n > >> > for a change to go through. > >> > >> You may customize any Emacs variables yourself. Just define your > >> agenda files yourself in your init file. Then do: > >> > >> {M-x customize-variables RET org-agenda-files RET} and erase what you > >> find there. > >> > >> Anything before the `custom' section in your init file will be then > >> defined by you and not by the built in system. > >> > >> In that case you should take care as user over time not to use > >> org-agenda-file-to-front command as that would again start adding > >> agend files to init file. Then just use your own settings. > >> > >> As long as you have your own settings hard coded you may erase the > >> variable org-agenda-files > > > > That worries me because I do not want to change the behaviuor of Emacs > > for users. Otherwise when people ask for help they will become confus= ed. > > Just a small clarification on the above directions. > > If you have *both* a settings in your emacs init file for > org-agenda-files using (setq org-agenda-files...) and you have a line in > your (custom ...) section, you should remove one of them to avoid > confusion. In general, what is in the custom section will take > preference as it is usually loaded last. If your going to remove the one > in the custom section, run M-x customize-variable org-agenda-files > and then select the options under the 'state' button to 'Erase > Customisation', don't just erase the values in the 'Value Menu' box. Emacs automatically introduced the custom, did not write it myself. > I'm not sure if I would classify the problem you ran into as a bug or > user error. Emacs has 2 main ways to customise behaviour. either you can > do it manually using things like (setq ...) in your init file, *OR* you > can use the customize interface to make the changes using a high level > 'widget' base UI. This all works pretty well unless you try to use both > methods to customise the same thing. Yes, if one uses Emacs Customise Behaviour, that's what happens. But I wa= s not using that. Helping people using elisp must be encouraged, because it opens up many possibilities. > In your case, the correct way to update the org-agenda-files list was to > edit your init file, remove the reference to the missing file and then > re-evaluae the variable. this is because you have decided to manage that > variable yourself using setq. > > The other alternative is to remove the setq setting from your init file > and then set your agenda file list using customize. The critical point > is not to use both - one or the other. > > Many people will use a combination of some things set by hand in their > init file and other things set using the customise interface. This is > fine but you must ensure you don't use both for the same thing. > > In your case, because you are not use to configuring Emacs manually, I > would strongly recommend you stick to using the customise interface. > Later, when your more use to customising Emacs, you can move to doing > your customisation in your init file by hand (if you want/need to - many > never do and just use the customisation interface). The customisation > interface is great when your not use to Elisp and don't yet know how to > re-evaluate expressions etc. I know lots of users where the only thing > in their init file is the custom section. All of their customisation is > done using the custom interface and they are never required to write a > single line of elisp. > > The org-agenda-files variable is also a little more complicated than > most configuration variables because org allows you to add/remove files > from that list interactively as well. For these interactive changes to > persist across sessions, Emacs has to store them somewhere and it uses > the custom section of your init file to do this. It cannot update your > manual setting with setq because that would require parsing and > modifying user controlled/written configuration code, which can be very > complicated and could be spread over many different files (some people > with large complex manual configurations will break them up into > separate files and include them using (reqire...) or load. This makes > updating such settings very dangerous. On the other hand, the custom > section is managed by Emacs and not modified by hand, so it can store > the updated list in that section safely, which means the changes will > persist across sessions. > > for this reason, I would recommend using custom to set/modify your > agenda file list and copletely delete the (setq org-agenda-files...) > from your init file. > > You might still consider how this works to be a bug because the way it > works is confusing. However, it is very difficult for Emacs to deal with > the situation where you have both manual configuration and custom > section configuration for the same thing. Emacs does what I think is the > sane things - gives priority to the custom section (actually, this can > also be changed, but lets not go down another rabbit hole). > The other alternative is to remove the setq setting from your init file > and then set your agenda file list using customize. The critical point > is not to use both - one or the other. > -- > Tim Cross > >