Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Uwe Jochum]

Hi all,

using entries in my diary file I get an alarm bell ten minutes before a
meeting or an appointment. That's useful. But indeed orgmode is much
more flexible for dealing with appointments and scheduled items, so I
wanted to do more time management in orgmode. But I cannot figure out
how to set an alarm bell in Emacs for scheduled stuff in orgmode. I
tried to do it by integrating my orgmode file in the diary file (see
orgmode FAQ, sec. 9), but that doesn't work (and it is not recommended
by Carsten). So is there any other way to get the notification mechanism
to co-operate with orgmode?

Schöne Grüße,

Uwe

Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Stefan Kamphausen]

Hi Uwe,

"Uwe Jochum" <uwe.jochum@uni-konstanz.de> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> using entries in my diary file I get an alarm bell ten minutes before a
> meeting or an appointment. That's useful. 

and should be more flexible...

> But indeed orgmode is much more flexible 

:-)

> for dealing with appointments and scheduled items, so I
> wanted to do more time management in orgmode. But I cannot figure out
> how to set an alarm bell in Emacs for scheduled stuff in orgmode. I
> tried to do it by integrating my orgmode file in the diary file (see
> orgmode FAQ, sec. 9), but that doesn't work (and it is not recommended
> by Carsten). So is there any other way to get the notification mechanism
> to co-operate with orgmode?

And what is more: you need to rely on Emacs running.  OK, since I read
EMails with Gnus Emacs /is/ always running, but nevertheless.  I
prefer my alarm bell being an informative reminder email.

Shouldn't it be possible to have a small elisp file which checks for
alarms to trigger in `org-agenda-files' and performs some reminder
action (like sending an email, ring the bell, start some external
application to create a popup ... whatever) if needed?  This small
extra elisp file could then be called from cron using emacs --script
command line option (only available in Gnu Emacs 22 if I am not
mistaken but something similar could probably achieved using -l, -batch
or -f, etc) every -say- 5 minutes.

To find out whether an alarm has to be triggered there could be a
global option which then refers to the scheduled date-times but one
might also think about a syntax how to defined multiple reminders for
one todo item.

Being but a beginner with org this may be a stupid idea, but it
/sounds/ reasonable to me.  I haven't started writing some elisp,
though.  And of course this is slightly OT :-)


Best Regards
Stefan


-- 
Stefan Kamphausen --- http://www.skamphausen.de
a blessed +42 regexp of confusion (weapon in hand)
You hit. The format string crumbles and turns to dust.

Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Bastien]

Stefan Kamphausen <skampi@gmx.net> writes:

>> using entries in my diary file I get an alarm bell ten minutes before a
>> meeting or an appointment. That's useful. 
>
> and should be more flexible...

I didn't think hard enough on this to have a steady opinion, but I guess
the right thing is to extend appt.el facilities, not org.el directly.

The job of `org-agenda-to-appt' is to make the appointments list (stored
in `appt-time-msg-list') aware both of the diary and of agenda files.

Once this list includes any appointment information you have in Emacs,
then you can use it as a basis for further calls to external tools by
running Emacs in batch mode.

> * TODO appt+.el --- write an extension for appt.el      :@Home:

:)

-- 
Bastien

Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Bastien]

"Uwe Jochum" <uwe.jochum@uni-konstanz.de> writes:

> But I cannot figure out how to set an alarm bell in Emacs for
> scheduled stuff in orgmode.

Did you try `org-agenda-to-appt'?  

It makes scheduled events in Org being added to the list of appointment.
Then you should be able to hear bells or Emacs will pinch you, etc.

It has filtering capacities, so you can add entries depending on their
content, headline or category.  See the docstring for details.

HTH,

-- 
Bastien

Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Uwe Jochum]

Message from Nov 06 2007 (10:43):
>> But I cannot figure out how to set an alarm bell in Emacs for
>> scheduled stuff in orgmode.
>
> Did you try `org-agenda-to-appt'?  

Bastien,

thanks! I hadn't seen that in the manual... It works, but I have to do
it manually evry time I start orgmode or every time I set a new
appointment. Wouldn't it be good to make this more automatic,
i.e. somehow configurable by the user, for instance like so: make it an
option, so I can activate it globally in the org-agenda options menu, in
such a way that new appointments are detected automatically and the bell
rings without doing org-agenda-to-appt by hand?

Schöne Grüße,

Uwe

Re: Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Bastien]

"Uwe Jochum" <uwe.jochum@uni-konstanz.de> writes:

> Message from Nov 06 2007 (10:43):
>>> But I cannot figure out how to set an alarm bell in Emacs for
>>> scheduled stuff in orgmode.
>>
>> Did you try `org-agenda-to-appt'?  
>
> Bastien,
>
> thanks! I hadn't seen that in the manual... 

One way to find information when browsing the manual in Info-mode is to
press `i' (M-x Info-index) and enter the index key to look for.

Here you can look for "appointment reminders" or "appt.el" and it will
open this page:

  (info "(org)Weekly/Daily agenda")

If you think this information should appear somewhere else, please
suggestion other location(s).

> It works, but I have to do it manually evry time I start orgmode or
> every time I set a new appointment. Wouldn't it be good to make this
> more automatic, i.e. somehow configurable by the user, for instance
> like so: make it an option, so I can activate it globally in the
> org-agenda options menu, in such a way that new appointments are
> detected automatically and the bell rings without doing
> org-agenda-to-appt by hand?

Better let the user decide by himself when he wants `org-agenda-to-appt'
to be called.  Two (non-exclusive) methods:

1. Add a hook to `before-save-hook' locally in `org-mode-hook' so that
   saving an Org buffer will check for new appointments and add them to
   the list of appointments:

   (add-hook 'org-mode-hook
	     (lambda() (add-hook 'before-save-hook
		                 'org-agenda-to-appt t t)))

   Note that pressing `s' in agenda buffers will save all agenda files
   and run `org-agenda-to-appt' for each of them.

2. Add a custom key to call 'org-agenda-to-appt from an agenda buffer.

   (org-defkey org-agenda-mode-map "\C-cA" 'org-agenda-to-appt)

If you use one of these two methods, maybe it's better to silent
`org-agenda-to-appt' since the repeated messages can be annoying.  
I'll provide a way to do this.

-- 
Bastien

Re: Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Richard G Riley]

Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:

> "Uwe Jochum" <uwe.jochum@uni-konstanz.de> writes:
>
>> Message from Nov 06 2007 (10:43):
>>>> But I cannot figure out how to set an alarm bell in Emacs for
>>>> scheduled stuff in orgmode.
>>>
>>> Did you try `org-agenda-to-appt'?  
>>
>> Bastien,
>>
>> thanks! I hadn't seen that in the manual... 
>
> One way to find information when browsing the manual in Info-mode is to
> press `i' (M-x Info-index) and enter the index key to look for.

Is it just me or are emacs info pages really a bit of a dog to search
through?

>
> Here you can look for "appointment reminders" or "appt.el" and it will
> open this page:
>
>   (info "(org)Weekly/Daily agenda")
>
> If you think this information should appear somewhere else, please
> suggestion other location(s).
>
>> It works, but I have to do it manually evry time I start orgmode or
>> every time I set a new appointment. Wouldn't it be good to make this
>> more automatic, i.e. somehow configurable by the user, for instance
>> like so: make it an option, so I can activate it globally in the
>> org-agenda options menu, in such a way that new appointments are
>> detected automatically and the bell rings without doing
>> org-agenda-to-appt by hand?
>
> Better let the user decide by himself when he wants `org-agenda-to-appt'
> to be called.  Two (non-exclusive) methods:
>
> 1. Add a hook to `before-save-hook' locally in `org-mode-hook' so that
>    saving an Org buffer will check for new appointments and add them to
>    the list of appointments:
>
>    (add-hook 'org-mode-hook
> 	     (lambda() (add-hook 'before-save-hook
> 		                 'org-agenda-to-appt t t)))
>
>    Note that pressing `s' in agenda buffers will save all agenda files
>    and run `org-agenda-to-appt' for each of them.
>
> 2. Add a custom key to call 'org-agenda-to-appt from an agenda buffer.
>
>    (org-defkey org-agenda-mode-map "\C-cA" 'org-agenda-to-appt)
>
> If you use one of these two methods, maybe it's better to silent
> `org-agenda-to-appt' since the repeated messages can be annoying.  
> I'll provide a way to do this.

Re: Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Bastien]

Richard G Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:

>> One way to find information when browsing the manual in Info-mode is to
>> press `i' (M-x Info-index) and enter the index key to look for.
>
> Is it just me or are emacs info pages really a bit of a dog to search
> through?

It's not just you.  

Many people don't like to search through the Info pages and whether this
interface is the best one for Emacs documentation is always a hot topic
on the emacs-devel mailing list.

But `i' (M-x Info-index) will really make your life easier.

Personnally I do like Info pages and Info-mode very much.  In addition
to Info-index, I'm mostly using these:

  `l' Info-history-back
  `L' Info-history
  `]' Info-forward-node

Once you get used to these few commands, it's really quick to find and
fetch relevant information.

HTH,

-- 
Bastien

Re: Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[William Henney]

On 11/6/07, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
> Richard G Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
> > Is it just me or are emacs info pages really a bit of a dog to search
> > through?
>
> It's not just you.
>
> Many people don't like to search through the Info pages and whether this
> interface is the best one for Emacs documentation is always a hot topic
> on the emacs-devel mailing list.
>
> But `i' (M-x Info-index) will really make your life easier.
>
> Personnally I do like Info pages and Info-mode very much.  In addition
> to Info-index, I'm mostly using these:
>
>   `l' Info-history-back
>   `L' Info-history
>   `]' Info-forward-node
>
> Once you get used to these few commands, it's really quick to find and
> fetch info relevant information.
>

I use "l" a lot, but I didn't know about "L" - thanks!

The commands I use most are "spacebar", which just chugs through an
entire manual, and "s", which does a regexp search.

I do like info pages when I can actually get the right ones to load.
The big problem I have with info is in setting it up so that it finds
the right files. For instance, I have totally failed to work out how I
can tell it where my org info files are, with the result that it
always shows me the old version that comes with my emacs (currently
4.67). I have tried setting Info-default-directory-list and
Info-directory-list, but all to no avail. Has anyone else had this
problem?

Cheers

Will

> HTH,

-- 

  Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica,
  Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia

Re: Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Chris Leyon]

On 11/6/07, William Henney <whenney@gmail.com> wrote:
> The big problem I have with info is in setting it up so that it finds
> the right files. For instance, I have totally failed to work out how I
> can tell it where my org info files are, with the result that it
> always shows me the old version that comes with my emacs (currently
> 4.67). I have tried setting Info-default-directory-list and
> Info-directory-list, but all to no avail. Has anyone else had this
> problem?
> Cheers
> Will

I too have experienced frustration attempting to use the
Info-*-directory-list variables.  However, I can live without this
particular feature, so I haven't spent much time trying to make it
work.

But I can tell you how to go to a specific info file which corresponds
to your new Org version:  from any info page, press the `g' key.  When
it prompts "Go to node:", enter an opening parenthesis `(', then a
path to your desired info filename.  (Filename completion via the Tab
key works here which is very helpful.)  When you reach your filename,
close with a final `)' character, although Tab will insert this for
you too.  Press Enter, and your desired Info file should open.

Chris

Re: Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Richard G Riley]

"William Henney" <whenney@gmail.com> writes:

> On 11/6/07, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
>> Richard G Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>> > Is it just me or are emacs info pages really a bit of a dog to search
>> > through?
>>
>> It's not just you.
>>
>> Many people don't like to search through the Info pages and whether this
>> interface is the best one for Emacs documentation is always a hot topic
>> on the emacs-devel mailing list.
>>
>> But `i' (M-x Info-index) will really make your life easier.
>>
>> Personnally I do like Info pages and Info-mode very much.  In addition
>> to Info-index, I'm mostly using these:
>>
>>   `l' Info-history-back
>>   `L' Info-history
>>   `]' Info-forward-node
>>
>> Once you get used to these few commands, it's really quick to find and
>> fetch info relevant information.
>>
>
> I use "l" a lot, but I didn't know about "L" - thanks!
>
> The commands I use most are "spacebar", which just chugs through an
> entire manual, and "s", which does a regexp search.
>
> I do like info pages when I can actually get the right ones to load.
> The big problem I have with info is in setting it up so that it finds
> the right files. For instance, I have totally failed to work out how I
> can tell it where my org info files are, with the result that it
> always shows me the old version that comes with my emacs (currently
> 4.67). I have tried setting Info-default-directory-list and
> Info-directory-list, but all to no avail. Has anyone else had this
> problem?

Yes.

On linux i ran (sudo) make install-info and then insured
/usr/local/info was on my info-directory-list

I also deleted any old org files lying around. I dont know, info files
and their set up is just damn confusing IMO, especially with plenty of
makefiles updating the wrong dir file. - its always worth checking which
define they use for their destination infopath.


>
> Cheers
>
> Will
>
>> HTH,

Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Sivaram Neelakantan]

"William Henney" <whenney@gmail.com> writes:


[...]

> I do like info pages when I can actually get the right ones to load.
> The big problem I have with info is in setting it up so that it finds
> the right files. For instance, I have totally failed to work out how I
> can tell it where my org info files are, with the result that it
> always shows me the old version that comes with my emacs (currently
> 4.67). I have tried setting Info-default-directory-list and
> Info-directory-list, but all to no avail. Has anyone else had this
> problem?

[...]

From what I understand of info files, there should be a 'dir' file
where the info files are for it to be seen by the info program.  and
that 'dir' can easily be created via

install-info org --dir-file=dir

Since I untar and rename every release as org and in a different
directory outside of Emacs directory, I requested Carsten to create
the dir file for me

http://www.mail-archive.com/emacs-orgmode@gnu.org/msg02668.html

and I have this for me in the .Emacs.

;;;; 
(setq Info-default-directory-list  
      (cons "c:/gnu/elisp/org/" Info-default-directory-list)) 
;;;for org 
(setq load-path (cons "c:/gnu/elisp/org/" load-path)) 
(require 'org-install) 

When I go into info, and go into org manual it brings up the latest
version document.


 sivaram
 -- 

Re: Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Bastien]

"William Henney" <whenney@gmail.com> writes:

> For instance, I have totally failed to work out how I can tell it
> where my org info files are, with the result that it always shows me
> the old version that comes with my emacs (currently 4.67). I have
> tried setting Info-default-directory-list and Info-directory-list, but
> all to no avail. Has anyone else had this problem?

I use the script Pete sent a while a go update org-mode automatically.
It fetches uncompress and untar the tarball archive.  It copies the org
info file (which name is really "org") to the local ~/info/ directory
where I keep latest version of Info files.

Then I have this is my .emacs.el:

  (add-to-list 'Info-default-directory-list "~/info/")

And the info page is correct.  Does that help?

-- 
Bastien

Re: Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[William Henney]

Thanks for your help, Chris, Richard, and Bastien. Chris's method of
loading the file explicitly will be useful until I get the path sorted
properly.

On 11/6/07, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
> "William Henney" <whenney@gmail.com> writes:
> I use the script Pete sent a while a go update org-mode automatically.
> It fetches uncompress and untar the tarball archive.  It copies the org
> info file (which name is really "org") to the local ~/info/ directory
> where I keep latest version of Info files.
>
> Then I have this is my .emacs.el:
>
>   (add-to-list 'Info-default-directory-list "~/info/")
>
> And the info page is correct.  Does that help?
>

I don't use Pete's script, but I do essentially the same thing and it
doesn't work

BUT, I think I have now found the culprit... It is all the fault of
fink (for the non Mac users, fink is a package manager and repo for OS
X, a bit like yum or apt, except a lot less useful....)

At some point I had added the following line to my ~/.profile

  test -r /sw/bin/init.sh && . /sw/bin/init.sh

and that file, unbeknownst to me had been setting the INFOPATH
environment variable. This means that Info-directory-list gets
initialised from INFOPATH and that Info-default-directory-list is
completely ignored :(

So, the answer seems to be to unset INFOPATH in the shell and to merge
the fink info directories into my Info-default-directory-list

At least, I assume this will work. I don't want to restart my emacs at
the moment since I would lose too much context, but I will test it out
when I next have a quiet time.

Cheers

Will

-- 

  Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica,
  Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia

Re: Ringing the alarm bell in orgmode

[Bastien]

"Uwe Jochum" <uwe.jochum@uni-konstanz.de> writes:

> I think the problem of finding the appropriate information is
> principally not a question of the right place for the right bit of
> information but a question of semantics. 

An index is the right place to handle people's semantic :)

> I had searched with "diary" "integration" "orgmode", even in Google.

The thing is that `org-agenda-to-appt' is at the bottom of the page
about Diary/Calendar integration.  So when looking for these keywords
(either from the Info interface or from Google) you should have landed
not that far...

> I'll better try to make my brainware more flexible.

Remember the motto: « if something works, don't repair it ».  This
qualifies for brains as well!

> (And shouldn't your solution not be documented, perhaps in the FAQ?)

Yes why not.

-- 
Bastien