negative values for EFFORT result in error when switching to column view

negative values for EFFORT result in error when switching to column view

[Heiko Schmidt]

Hi everybody.

When planning projects I estimate the amount of time for tasks by
filling the property EFFORT with an amount of time.


#+begin_src org
     ,*** Projekt
             :PROPERTIES:
             :COLUMNS:  %30ITEM %8EFFORT{:}
             :END:
     ,**** effort planned/estimated
              :PROPERTIES:
              :EFFORT:   10 h
              :END:
#+end_src

After acceptance of this planned time the project will be executed and
I sum the amount of time I really needed.

#+begin_src org
     ,**** first effort done
              :PROPERTIES:
              :EFFORT:   -2 h
              :END:
     ,**** secon effort done
              :PROPERTIES:
              :EFFORT:   -3 h
              :END:
#+end_src

When M-x org-columns I'd like to see column view with the balanced sum
of the hours planned and the hours really worked, but I get an error

cond: Invalid duration format: "-2 h"

I know I'm using old versions but this problem is also on newer versions.

org-version: 9.2
GNU Emacs 24.4.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.14.5)
  of 2017-09-12 on hullmann, modified by Debian

I'm wondering why this doesn't work - many people are planning their
whole life with org mode (as I'm doing as well), is any help available?

Re: negative values for EFFORT result in error when switching to column view

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Heiko Schmidt <Heiko.Schmidt@webbedtables.de> writes:

> When M-x org-columns I'd like to see column view with the balanced sum
> of the hours planned and the hours really worked, but I get an error
>
> cond: Invalid duration format: "-2 h"
>
> I know I'm using old versions but this problem is also on newer
> versions.

Effort property accepts a specific, and well defined type of value:
a duration. Such values cannot be negative, as explained in the error
message.

You may, however, use a different property for your use-case, and apply
column view on it.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: negative values for EFFORT result in error when switching to column view

[Heiko Schmidt]

On 06.04.20 12:13, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
> Effort property accepts a specific, and well defined type of value:
> a duration. Such values cannot be negative, as explained in the error
> message.
>
> You may, however, use a different property for your use-case, and apply
> column view on it.
>
> Regards,
>
This is exactly the reason why I'd love to have negative values for the 
durations. It would open the possibility of doing something like 
"accounting" of time.

I'm working with self defined duration units and it would be of great 
value to be able to calculate the balance for planned and done work 
time. I don't use clocking.

What'd be wrong about having -0:30 h, -30 min, -2.5 h, -3 d or -3 m? 
It'd be an addition no change so there would hoefully be no 
incompatibilities.

Maybe even 3m -3d be or -3m 3d could be of use.

As I see there is org-duration.el - Have the changes to be made only there?

Best Regards

Re: negative values for EFFORT result in error when switching to column view

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Heiko Schmidt <Heiko.Schmidt@webbedtables.de> writes:

> This is exactly the reason why I'd love to have negative values for
> the durations. It would open the possibility of doing something like
> "accounting" of time.

I think you can do accounting of time without introducing negative
duration. Basic accounting implies having two categories. You expect
them to be "positive" and "negative", but it could also be "positive in
property A" and "positive in property B".

> I'm working with self defined duration units and it would be of great
> value to be able to calculate the balance for planned and done work
> time. I don't use clocking.
>
> What'd be wrong about having -0:30 h, -30 min, -2.5 h, -3 d or -3 m?
> It'd be an addition no change so there would hoefully be no
> incompatibilities.
>
> Maybe even 3m -3d be or -3m 3d could be of use.

No incompatibility doesn't mean no cost. It adds code complexity. You
also have to maintain the feature later on, make sure it doesn't break
future code, etc.

Moreover, I'm not convinced about the general need for such a feature.
Of course, it is possible that I may be missing the point. Org folks may
want to chime in and correct me if I do.

> As I see there is org-duration.el - Have the changes to be made only
> there?

I think so. But I suggest to check if you cannot do otherwise (again,
I'm sure you can).

Re: negative values for EFFORT result in error when switching to column view

[Heiko Schmidt]

On 06.04.20 18:13, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
> Heiko Schmidt <Heiko.Schmidt@webbedtables.de> writes:
>
>> This is exactly the reason why I'd love to have negative values for
>> the durations. It would open the possibility of doing something like
>> "accounting" of time.
> I think you can do accounting of time without introducing negative
> duration. Basic accounting implies having two categories. You expect
> them to be "positive" and "negative", but it could also be "positive in
> property A" and "positive in property B".
>
>> I'm working with self defined duration units and it would be of great
>> value to be able to calculate the balance for planned and done work
>> time. I don't use clocking.
>>
>> What'd be wrong about having -0:30 h, -30 min, -2.5 h, -3 d or -3 m?
>> It'd be an addition no change so there would hoefully be no
>> incompatibilities.
>>
>> Maybe even 3m -3d be or -3m 3d could be of use.
> No incompatibility doesn't mean no cost. It adds code complexity. You
> also have to maintain the feature later on, make sure it doesn't break
> future code, etc.
>
> Moreover, I'm not convinced about the general need for such a feature.
> Of course, it is possible that I may be missing the point. Org folks may
> want to chime in and correct me if I do.
Ifully agree - being not fluent in emacs lisp I'm currently exploring 
org-duration.el at a snail's pace ... which is really really expensive :-)
> I think so. But I suggest to check if you cannot do otherwise (again,
> I'm sure you can).

I thought about this matter for a longer time (months if not years, 
again and again before I asked the list). AFAIK it is not possible to 
execute calculations between property A and property B in column view by 
assigning to property C with orgmode on board features. Or did I miss 
such a feature?

As I'm using orgmode extensively since years I've created and dived into 
many rabbit holes by implementing sophisticated special solutions which 
I later threw away for the win of simplicity. By now I just use basic 
features and one I'm really missing are these negative durations.

Maybe I can do some progress with org-duration.el on my own.