From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id KFECL3rrjV4bTAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 15:19:22 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id mPMeI3vrjV6VMgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 15:19:23 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57BD4941856 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 15:19:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37378 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jMCU2-0007Vg-Od for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 11:19:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59229) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jMCT5-0007Rw-Ga for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 11:18:20 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jMCT4-00028E-9J for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 11:18:19 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.131]:57351) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jMCT3-00022y-Uh for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 11:18:18 -0400 Received: from mail.home.webbedtables.de ([88.65.144.24]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MI41P-1jYYel3xcl-00F8wW for ; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 17:18:09 +0200 Received: from [192.168.2.21] (cheetah2.fritz.box [192.168.2.21]) by mail.home.webbedtables.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 937A483B2F for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 17:18:07 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: negative values for EFFORT result in error when switching to column view To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <87blo4c47e.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <6e516ee4-fe39-98db-a276-091ed89282e7@webbedtables.de> <87v9mca8y9.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> From: Heiko Schmidt Message-ID: <1e00f1c7-4df8-e3b2-3331-930fa76bc723@webbedtables.de> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 17:18:07 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87v9mca8y9.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: de-DE X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:e1EyrC5NeUeCzqd8oA9zKzzLWISBDoA/Zn4eH18z0XPwrfmzRRH 6kv2letk1uoi3J13eQkXQqYawtWcCafh68jvxQTcgVCm7xXqd2tZUvHbwCZ5E5Xt6/Tz13v ntoVUwkePGatOaKexq8NAMh13v8NoYEs8nszEJUG8CkvtCkhIKi+iCeYPEsWE0LUhlIFedm 1VhlXYSm1Shxb21lYqHbw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:RSE2f2XDIgs=:yys+CK53V7CF2WBJ2ho7c1 biKC6Ct3t/vyxfG0xuR43GvQGJecng/bOCUasI/sK2DR+9KEsdIxFOQ050AZeNoxhggwDmGLm Kbnp67ggpeOOYjWPISrJ4J6mjejWh8u6m6rBGuIUVHJEa85xZ0kt/Rlo2onP58rCHGuWFhp8j 79LGS2vflEX/jX9giybMxeXE1VbtZCUAAcAuiLcuSNnMlCtz1wpquX2Z5+56cBr6DS1WZjXB0 mlzS8KL9updAZxLPFJVIKaDy44m8LvhRf472OD/IYlUQ3HdcTWlc6WZoB5Dawh5hLAiQDQWcr 7HhrRLFyLswtkR8aAFTDN91hHPOXatKqDvcgWqa3ScITIYhGttc256d/6k45AwyC48lruNZHY GLWz+KEhbifiwrJsKIQhjKaVmIE7tEUnViYm48+waytfn0rodRW183hrWIPmw4ZFkT7iIY6oX u0S8yoxckBi8RpRuEepCLtCBmzSFthDQl5J4BaY8qgGO14RQmI7TK8JNCnS6kVVv8jl/NrqGK EdekQMprcmWIhZtooJmAV4dfNl3xs2Q2LlQhcmltD7hmSJZEJzxro7+Fx4MHf9P+4qreAqOaE iswJa4HWntF8HCWIYcE+Q1E94jm27A2bASkidPC3yQA71pMs80MRkymDiBLIzZny1A/0rxt7a 3lFK5FMpVpVjUeJMgFe3k20qfbCheL/ZmBInJx9VWMLI7BZVjoDFxjxB0mLMLvOS3BWjfxxnT /FTZzHt1VJ8TMj/YmJQGikDySGWL1zwdQ8SZayTb4+BFDHwBfauxq9k3nN40sekUGNgABxtt9 sZGwOjh0yYni4W33hqyY+T9xWfTdp+nCqgHXynOcuqOjE+19aQ3Z+6ds0ZwoLqGmX3ARpqw X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.126.131 X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=default; t=1586359162; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=sERsmCZSNvFFIzm1N/ROmC9cF3pkmkdTiolgb7V3Rkk=; b=MveWkLjtHOCWVXHP4tX6eA4AsPDOGsNi7GKWk5Cg4BJ3vDvPN7PdxUVLVTH/HhZUDjFmbi eyVDINckCDDDEctjN29my/MlQIv4WTOKCRMDD9+STzWvW5ZBOfRUuPm/W0kYYk6JpAGOj2 u9CjIBbj9NIeveV4vb/6phjFwST8x7k= ARC-Seal: i=1; s=default; d=yhetil.org; t=1586359162; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=MEgfFIEjrOfslr8XPRYNqx7DlvtzkJ6k6dZF0RZRNxpDKqTNzkd/M+hkEFbt3yC5Bvxm94 jEaDBCU0eOvDk5b8rP1IzmSie3uywA+BiLgvIfpnZUve1DYbfok84G5tWIhF2qq+4VkGmr Pu7WOg6RSb7B3oGVFZ2dj4egJpVRtaw= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: -1.01 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [-1.01 / 13.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.58178258646605]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.31), country: US(-0.01), ip: 209.51.188.17(-0.58)]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.51.188.0/24]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; ARC_SIGNED(0.00)[i=1]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:209.51.188.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[Heiko.Schmidt@webbedtables.de,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; SPF_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[-0.58429736551894]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[emacs-orgmode@gnu.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[webbedtables.de]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: VMU+521IUb3h On 06.04.20 18:13, Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > Heiko Schmidt writes: > >> This is exactly the reason why I'd love to have negative values for >> the durations. It would open the possibility of doing something like >> "accounting" of time. > I think you can do accounting of time without introducing negative > duration. Basic accounting implies having two categories. You expect > them to be "positive" and "negative", but it could also be "positive in > property A" and "positive in property B". > >> I'm working with self defined duration units and it would be of great >> value to be able to calculate the balance for planned and done work >> time. I don't use clocking. >> >> What'd be wrong about having -0:30 h, -30 min, -2.5 h, -3 d or -3 m? >> It'd be an addition no change so there would hoefully be no >> incompatibilities. >> >> Maybe even 3m -3d be or -3m 3d could be of use. > No incompatibility doesn't mean no cost. It adds code complexity. You > also have to maintain the feature later on, make sure it doesn't break > future code, etc. > > Moreover, I'm not convinced about the general need for such a feature. > Of course, it is possible that I may be missing the point. Org folks may > want to chime in and correct me if I do. Ifully agree - being not fluent in emacs lisp I'm currently exploring org-duration.el at a snail's pace ... which is really really expensive :-) > I think so. But I suggest to check if you cannot do otherwise (again, > I'm sure you can). I thought about this matter for a longer time (months if not years, again and again before I asked the list). AFAIK it is not possible to execute calculations between property A and property B in column view by assigning to property C with orgmode on board features. Or did I miss such a feature? As I'm using orgmode extensively since years I've created and dived into many rabbit holes by implementing sophisticated special solutions which I later threw away for the win of simplicity. By now I just use basic features and one I'm really missing are these negative durations. Maybe I can do some progress with org-duration.el on my own.