logging transitional states

logging transitional states

[Dmitri Minaev]

Hi,

I use org-mode with TODO keywords denoting workflow states. E.g., when
tracking purchases, I set the keywords to:

#+SEQ_TODO: TODO ORDERED INVOICE PAYED RECEIVED SENT

Is there a way to log the dates not only for the completion (SENT
state), but also for all transitional states?

Thank you.

-- 
With best regards,
Dmitri Minaev

Re: logging transitional states

[Carsten Dominik]

Currently there is not, but this looks like a useful extension.

Forthcoming, some time next year.


- Carsten

On Dec 18, 2006, at 13:59, Dmitri Minaev wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I use org-mode with TODO keywords denoting workflow states. E.g., when
> tracking purchases, I set the keywords to:
>
> #+SEQ_TODO: TODO ORDERED INVOICE PAYED RECEIVED SENT
>
> Is there a way to log the dates not only for the completion (SENT
> state), but also for all transitional states?
>
> Thank you.
>
> -- 
> With best regards,
> Dmitri Minaev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>

--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

Re: logging transitional states

[Daniel J. Sinder]

Just to add a related idea which may be relevant to a new extension:

Even for 'type' TODO keywords, they are asymmetric.  There may be
any number of keywords that essentially mean 'to do', but only one
(DONE) that means 'done.'

I occasionally have TODO items that become moot or otherwise
uninteresting, but I want a record of the fact that they were
considered for action.  For these, I don't want to remove the 'TODO'
keyword altogether.  Rather, I could have keywords such as
WITHDRAWN, CANCELLED, SCRAPPED, etc.  These items are no longer
things I need 'to do', nor are they truly 'done' (i.e., the task was
not completed), but I might want to keep them with a record (e.g., a
closing note) of why I scrapped the idea/plan.

So, combined with Dmitri's suggestion, I guess I'm suggesting that
TODO keywords should be assigned one of 3 mutually exclusive categories:
1. Nothing done yet
2. Transitional -- Action taken, but not yet done; in-progress
3. Nothing left to do (whether truly 'done' or not)

Anything in category 2 or 3 would be eligible for completion
logging.  Anything in category 3 would not appear in agenda view
TODO lists, but could still be found via a TODO keyword search.

In an org file, they could be grouped like this:
#+TYP_TODO: {TODO NEXT MAYBE} {ORDERED PAYED RECEIVED} {DONE
WITHDRAWN SCRAPPED}

Dan

Carsten Dominik wrote:
> Currently there is not, but this looks like a useful extension.
> 
> Forthcoming, some time next year.
> 
> 
> - Carsten
> 
> On Dec 18, 2006, at 13:59, Dmitri Minaev wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I use org-mode with TODO keywords denoting workflow states. E.g., when
>> tracking purchases, I set the keywords to:
>>
>> #+SEQ_TODO: TODO ORDERED INVOICE PAYED RECEIVED SENT
>>
>> Is there a way to log the dates not only for the completion (SENT
>> state), but also for all transitional states?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> -- 
>> With best regards,
>> Dmitri Minaev

Re: logging transitional states

[Eddward DeVilla]

I have also wished for other 'Done' type states.  Currently I mark
them all DONE and if there is something interesting about the
'Done-ness' of it I add that as a tag such as :SCRATCHED: :CANCELED:
or :REJECTED:.  I haven't found it to be much of a problem, but I've
wondered if it would be difficult to do sequential TODOs where the
last item could be a list of DONE states.

   WAIT PLANNING WORKING TESTING (DONE SCRATCHED)

For that matter, having different sequences could be useful.

   TODO (DONE NOPE)
   WAIT PLANNING WORKING TESTING (COMPLETE SCRATCHED)
   REPORTED ANSWERED

This would just complicate things, but it came from me trying to find
a Todo scheme that would be flexible enough to handle all the
different kind of Todo's I deal with in one set of agenda files.  I've
found it easier to have a minimal set of Todo types and tags to
describe unique circumstances.  Anything interesting about a Done
project is a tag.  Blocking factors are tags.  I've also considered
Todo types to be specially treated tags and recent changes to
searching make that illusion a little easier to maintain.

Edd

On 12/18/06, Daniel J. Sinder <djsinder@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just to add a related idea which may be relevant to a new extension:
>
> Even for 'type' TODO keywords, they are asymmetric.  There may be
> any number of keywords that essentially mean 'to do', but only one
> (DONE) that means 'done.'
>
> I occasionally have TODO items that become moot or otherwise
> uninteresting, but I want a record of the fact that they were
> considered for action.  For these, I don't want to remove the 'TODO'
> keyword altogether.  Rather, I could have keywords such as
> WITHDRAWN, CANCELLED, SCRAPPED, etc.  These items are no longer
> things I need 'to do', nor are they truly 'done' (i.e., the task was
> not completed), but I might want to keep them with a record (e.g., a
> closing note) of why I scrapped the idea/plan.
>
> So, combined with Dmitri's suggestion, I guess I'm suggesting that
> TODO keywords should be assigned one of 3 mutually exclusive categories:
> 1. Nothing done yet
> 2. Transitional -- Action taken, but not yet done; in-progress
> 3. Nothing left to do (whether truly 'done' or not)
>
> Anything in category 2 or 3 would be eligible for completion
> logging.  Anything in category 3 would not appear in agenda view
> TODO lists, but could still be found via a TODO keyword search.
>
> In an org file, they could be grouped like this:
> #+TYP_TODO: {TODO NEXT MAYBE} {ORDERED PAYED RECEIVED} {DONE
> WITHDRAWN SCRAPPED}
>
> Dan
>
> Carsten Dominik wrote:
> > Currently there is not, but this looks like a useful extension.
> >
> > Forthcoming, some time next year.
> >
> >
> > - Carsten
> >
> > On Dec 18, 2006, at 13:59, Dmitri Minaev wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I use org-mode with TODO keywords denoting workflow states. E.g., when
> >> tracking purchases, I set the keywords to:
> >>
> >> #+SEQ_TODO: TODO ORDERED INVOICE PAYED RECEIVED SENT
> >>
> >> Is there a way to log the dates not only for the completion (SENT
> >> state), but also for all transitional states?
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >> --
> >> With best regards,
> >> Dmitri Minaev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

Re: DSPAM Re: logging transitional states

[Bastien]

"Eddward DeVilla" <eddward@gmail.com> writes:

> I have also wished for other 'Done' type states.  Currently I mark
> them all DONE and if there is something interesting about the
> 'Done-ness' of it I add that as a tag such as :SCRATCHED: :CANCELED:
> or :REJECTED:.  I haven't found it to be much of a problem, but I've
> wondered if it would be difficult to do sequential TODOs where the
> last item could be a list of DONE states.

This is something i would find very useful as well. 

-- 
Bastien

Re: DSPAM Re: logging transitional states

[Carsten Dominik]

What is wrong with doing what Edd is using currently:
Add a tag when you want to mark a DONE state in a
particular way. Sounds to me straight forward and
functional, you can find them with tags searches etc.

Setting up several DONE states, and even having a number
of different TODO sequences in a different buffer seems
complicated to me - each time you create a TODO item, you'll
have to decide on which track to set it etc.

- Carsten

On Dec 19, 2006, at 10:00, Bastien wrote:

> "Eddward DeVilla" <eddward@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I have also wished for other 'Done' type states.  Currently I mark
>> them all DONE and if there is something interesting about the
>> 'Done-ness' of it I add that as a tag such as :SCRATCHED: :CANCELED:
>> or :REJECTED:.  I haven't found it to be much of a problem, but I've
>> wondered if it would be difficult to do sequential TODOs where the
>> last item could be a list of DONE states.
>
> This is something i would find very useful as well.
>
> -- 
> Bastien
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>

--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

Re: logging transitional states

[Carsten Dominik]

Actually, I can simply hook this into the system for taking
notes when an item is done - so this will already be in 4.60.

- Carsten

On Dec 18, 2006, at 13:59, Dmitri Minaev wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I use org-mode with TODO keywords denoting workflow states. E.g., when
> tracking purchases, I set the keywords to:
>
> #+SEQ_TODO: TODO ORDERED INVOICE PAYED RECEIVED SENT
>
> Is there a way to log the dates not only for the completion (SENT
> state), but also for all transitional states?
>
> Thank you.
>
> -- 
> With best regards,
> Dmitri Minaev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>

--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

Re: logging transitional states

[Dmitri Minaev]

On 12/18/06, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
> Currently there is not, but this looks like a useful extension.

Actually, there are at least two other ways to reach the goal and I
use them both:
a) simple timestamps (like: <2006-12-18 Mon> invoice rcvd) and
b) subtasks for every step of the process. This solution works better
with 'project templates', when a whole subtree is pasted automatically
and a simple macro does it easily. The subtasks may clutter the
agenda, though.

So, the extension is not really as useful and it's worth implementing
only if you won't have to trade the largest advantage of your
magnificent Org-mode -- simplicity :).

I sometimes wished there were more than one finalizing keywords, too,
but Eddward's idea seems to be doing everything I wanted. Thanks!

-- 
With best regards,
Dmitri Minaev

Re: logging transitional states

[Carsten Dominik]

On Dec 19, 2006, at 14:18, Dmitri Minaev wrote:

> On 12/18/06, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
>> Currently there is not, but this looks like a useful extension.
>
> Actually, there are at least two other ways to reach the goal and I
> use them both:
> a) simple timestamps (like: <2006-12-18 Mon> invoice rcvd) and
> b) subtasks for every step of the process. This solution works better
> with 'project templates', when a whole subtree is pasted automatically
> and a simple macro does it easily. The subtasks may clutter the
> agenda, though.

Yes, this is a good way, but indeed can clutter your todo list.

> So, the extension is not really as useful and it's worth implementing
> only if you won't have to trade the largest advantage of your
> magnificent Org-mode -- simplicity :).

This would be a problem for allowing many DONE states, or for
allowing different TODO state sequences in a single buffer.
For tracking state changes, I don't think it is a problem,
configuration will be as simple as

    #+SEQ_TODO: TODO ORDERED INVOICE PAYED RECEIVED SENT
    #+STARTUP: lognotestate

and the rest will happen automatically.

- Carsten



--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477