Re: Org and Hyperbole

[Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>]

* Robert Weiner <rsw@gnu.org> [2022-10-08 23:55]:
> Task management is a whole area separate from note taking.  This was
> something I was interested in many years ago but have not been able
> to publish a system to implement my ideas therein.  Since people
> generally seem to be happy with Org's todo and agenda features, we
> expect to just interact with those from Hyperbole.

PLEASE: Give us more information about your ideas and your system.

For me Org is only one of many lightweight markup languages,
definitely now the easiest or friendly one IMHO. Asciidoc is way
easier and asciidoctor implementation offers better higher level and
deterministic functions for users to create documents.

AsciiDoc Syntax Quick Reference | Asciidoctor Docs:
https://docs.asciidoctor.org/asciidoc/latest/syntax-quick-reference/

I get better output, easier workflow with Asciidoctor and PDF rather
than with Org. Sometimes I may use txt2tags and generate asciidoc. I
get less problems with it, rather than with LaTeX.

And I don't think that Org is proper for task management. Org is
markup for me, and that is where I keep it. 

Tasks must be modular and separate from text files, external and
editable by many means, and accessible by multiple people from
multiple parts of the world. That is what various ERP, CRM systems
already do for people.

Org group of users are limited. There is no need to think that Org
users are leading in the subject of task management, as they are
not. They are troubled by too many problems, too many errors, and
constant inability to actually do what they want.

Just compare it to Cherrytree or Leo editor:

Cherrytree - hierarchical note taking application with rich text and syntax highlighting:
https://www.giuspen.com/cherrytree/

Leo programmable editor:
http://leoeditor.com/

In Org we are enthusiastic.

We are many unrealistic, and idealistic. That is not objective.

With Org one can't assume that productivity is granted.

Productivity comes from person skilled in handling its own tasks, not
from the tool.

Like you with Hyrolo, I guess you are using it very swift and smooth,
but I do not see anybody on mailing list talking about it. Great tool
with too few users. Org has too many users and also too many problems. 

I have no problems adding contacts to Hyrolo and searching, deleting,
finding phone numbers, it works swift. Not that I use it, but without
access to my database, on some remote computers in forest, that is
what I like to use.

I can't say that I am happy with Org agenda, far from that, in fact I
never use it because I was not happy. So I made my own, and it is
soooo much faster than Org agenda, because it gets it from users.

So please GIVE us the list of your ideas, as it may be useful.

> But for notes, yes, one needs to capture them quickly and then get
> back to your former context.  Later on you can process them more
> fully.

"Capturing" notes like some mouses or animals, I don't know if that
word is appropriate. Do you people in English speaking area in world
without Emacs really use the word "capturing".

Org has promoted features like swift templates on how to insert new
information into text files.

Function skeleton-insert is since 1993 there in Emacs as one of ways
how to insert in any mode new template based information. It was just
not as promoted as Org mode.

By promoting "capturing" ideas to be somehow connected exclusively to
Org mode we lure people rather into pretty difficult environment. 

This way we just limit people to think that templates and quicker and
streamlined note taking can't be used in other modes or text files.

What a silly situation.

And when I just look on the interface of M-x org-capture, I can't even
believe people use that static what, Emacs-blocking screen. I can't
even switch to that buffer. And I do not need tips "how to do it" as a
follow up to this paragraph. 

I use org-protocol as one of ways to enter information to Emacs,
because I use browser extension for Org protocol. 

But I never record anything into Org files directly.

Org protocol may is described as:
Intercept Calls from Emacsclient to Trigger Custom Actions

Great idea, but why it should be limited to Org?

So I use it to enter information straight into database by using
Firefox extension: https://github.com/vifon/org-protocol-for-firefox

> Although I see the great utility in having capabilities on mobile
> devices, I find most apps way underpowered for constant use.

I can totally agree with that statement. 

One good application on mobile devices that I use is simple text
editor. That is where I enter notes. Then I connect mobile device to
Emacs and move those notes into the database.

> As Emacs becomes more usable on mobile devices, we can add more
> mobile-friendly features to Hyperbole.

Emacs works well in Termux in Android, Lineage OS, Replicant
systems. Problem is not in Emacs which already works well in console
mode. 

Problem is with the keyboard. Mobile devices with virtual keyboards
are not suitable for advanced Emacs key bindings.

-- 
Jean

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