Re: [ANN] BREAKING CHANGE -- removing #+BABEL file-wide property lines

[Rainer M Krug <r.m.krug@gmail.com>]

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On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:
>
> > Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Can we please back off this path?
> >
> > In order to prevent confusion or needless argument: the path I think we
> > should back off of is the committing of these changes to master - I think
> > the work should be done in a branch and cooked thoroughly before merging
> > it to master.
> >
>

Partly agree here - I was bitten by the changes, and have suspended work on
one project until this issue stabilizes - I do not want to change my files
after each change.


>
> I would agree that these changes should be happening in branches if the
> problems were technical, however the issues that need to be addressed
> are social issues of consensus, and for better or worse pushing changes
> to the master branch is the best way to alert all interested actors and
> begin the consensus-building process.
>
> If these changes had been pushed up to a branch they would be sitting
> happily in that branch with no-one noticing or objecting.  They had been
> discussed at length on list before their implementation and commitance,
> but this most recent round of discussion was caused by a push to the
> master branch.
>
>
You are definitely right about that - but it is kind of forcing the issue
on to users after telling them they should use git as org is very dynamic,
which is a risky business, as it might put users of - consider a new org
user who realizes that regularly things are changing which affect him, and
he / she has to change aspects of their org files. I would say it is a
double edged sword.

This is also after all the development repository, and while I do try
> very hard never to break this head of this repository at the same time I
> think it is an acceptable place to try out new functionality.
>

Again - true, but it is always recommended on the org-list to use the git
repo, as it contains all bug fixes.


> >
> > I did not mean to imply (although I think one could easily get that
> impression
> > from my mail) backing off the property implementation (despite my
> personal
> > reservations about that).
> >
>
> OK, good, because I *do* think that properties are a natural fit for
> specifying code block parameters.  The use of subtree properties has
> already proven itself, and file-wide properties are a natural extension
> (much more natural than the introduction of a #+BABEL: header argument).
>

Then one should possibly also think of merging #+LATEX into #+PROPERTY -
which I think would make it more consistent (and this is a serious
suggestion).
So: all file-wide properties, #+PROPERTIES is used.

What would be really important, is to have one page on worg, on which this
process is documented - i.e. how files need to be changed, to be used with
which version of org. I definitely have no idea, how I have to modify my
files at the moment (there was the discussion abour source_name, name, ...
and then the #+PROPERTY - I hope I haven't missed anything?). As I said - I
have the luck, that I can wait until it stabilizes (at least I hope) - but
a regularly updated summary with changes would be very welcome (and I guess
I can speak for many org users).

Even if this step is painful for many (especially the ones not to familiar
with the inner workings of org and babel (this definitely includes me)), I
am sure that the best solution will be found (hopefully soon) and we will
have a better and stronger org-mode at hand.

Cheers,

Rainer


> While there is certainly some pain in this process I think it is nailing
> down both the needs for code block properties as well as the scope of
> what is and is not desirable functionality for properties in general.
>
> Best -- Eric
>
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Eric Schulte
> http://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte/
>
>


-- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology,
UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

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