Re: [OT] Defining System, process, methodology and framework

["Gustav Wikström" <gustav.erik@gmail.com>]

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Not stupid, maybe a bit confusing ;) But thinking normally is, until you
reason it out. =) (And that's a process!)

I wanted to write something about your mail but didn't find anything of
relevance in my mind (In my system, to share your terminology ;) ).

Please share your insights afterwards!

/Gustav

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <
celoserpa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, looks like my text was kind of stupid and or confusing...
>
> Anyway, I started reading "An Introduction To General Systems Thinking" -
> surprisingly interesting book, and it's helping me answer most of those
> questions in deeper ways. I needed to do some additional investigation
> before starting to ask questions ;)
>
> I'll share the insights after I finish it,
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marcelo.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <
> celoserpa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I know there are quite a few smart brains around here, and I think this
>> is valid discussion for this mailing list, even if OT.
>>
>> I'm not a cientist, nor work inside an academic environment. I'm just a
>> regular guy trying to understand this world and making better use of my
>> resources, specially time. For this, I have read dozens of books on
>> personal productivity, including GTD, Making it All Work, and Work the
>> System. All great books.
>>
>> I've started to notice a pattern though. All of them talk about systems
>> and processes (and some might even use the word framework and methodology /
>> or method), and although you can live by and be quite productivity if you
>> apply the principles, I knew I had to understand in an even lower and basic
>> level. I then asked myself "What the heck is a system" and what is the
>> relationship it has with "process", "methodology" and "frameworks" ?
>>
>> I found out, for example, that "System" and "Process" sometimes are used
>> inter-changeably. So I went to google to try to find out the answer. The
>> simplest answers simply say that "a process is what a system is made of".
>> It did not convince me.
>>
>> By reading the wikipedia article about System (
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System), I found out this paragraph under
>> "System concepts":
>>
>> Process and transformation process
>>> A system can also be viewed as a bounded transformation process, that
>>> is, a process or collection of processes that transforms inputs into
>>> outputs. Inputs are consumed; outputs are produced. The concept of input
>>> and output here is very broad. E.g., an output of a passenger ship is the
>>> movement of people from departure to destination.
>>
>>
>> A system can viewed as a process? Hmm, confusing.
>>
>> Right now, my mental model basically says that a "system" is like
>> blueprint with different components that communicate, and a process is what
>> runs on it (or in on of its components). "Framework" is like a collection
>> of systems and a "methodology" is basically akin to system (in my
>> understanding).
>>
>> Why am I obsessing about this?
>>
>> The reason is systems thinking. I think it's a quite interesting mindset
>> and way to perceive the world. By trying to view yourself and what
>> surrounds you as systems (with sub-systems), it's much easier to document
>> (them), get feedback, and improve, automating your life even further,
>> understanding it more, and living better.
>>
>> For example, from this perspective I think, GTD is simply a product of an
>> elevated point of view from the author David Allen. He simply viewed things
>> systematically and documented them. That's why he says it's 'common-sense'.
>>
>> But before that, it would be nice to know exactly what a System is, and
>> it's relationship with "process", "methodology" and "framework", in
>> abstract terms.
>>
>>  What do you think? I'm sure there are quite a few people here that might
>> be crazy enough to have the same question, or perhaps, I'm just too crazy.
>> Let me know, any insights very much appreciated.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - Marcelo.
>>
>>
>

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