Re: org-icons package

Re: org-icons package

[Renzo Been]

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Hi Dan, Nicolas and list,

In my previous mail I wrote about using (and upgrading it for use with the
latest version of org-mode) Nicolas Girard's org-icons package, see:
http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?group=gmane.emacs.orgmode&article=44834

I've tried to contact Nicolas Girard (via e-mail and a google search). But I
have not heard back from him as yet.

When I checked the github for org-icons again I discovered that there was a
second branch by Dan Davison.
https://github.com/ngirard/org-icons/tree/dan

Dan,

Do you know how I can get in contact with Nicolas? Or do you have access to
the github for org-icons, so that it's code can be updated to work with the
latest version of org-mode? Did you and Nicolas ever think about including
org-icons into org-mode?

As for me, I'm happily using org-icons with org-mode 7.7, I've attached a new
and updated patch file that works on the latest org.el

Copy the patch "org-icons.patch" to the directory where you keep your "org.el"
cd to that directory
And then apply the patch like this:
patch -b org.el org-icons.patch

Of-course, if neither of you has the time to work on org-icons... I could make
a fork of the git repo, and make the changes myself. However, I do not have
much elisp knowledge...

Ciao,
Renzo

On 25 July 2011 12:12, Renzo Been <swangdoodles@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bastien <bzg <at> altern.org> writes:

>> Hi Philipp,

>> Philipp Haselwarter <philipp.haselwarter <at> gmx.de> writes:

>> > Is there any particular reason for it to be hardcoded? Apart from the
>> > fact that /well it just is this way right now/ I mean.

>> Nothing carved in stone, but here are the two reasons I see:

>> - we don't want users to use arbitrary regexp to match headlines as they
>>   are very likely to shoot themselves in the foot (Harven's example of
>>   using "-" instead of "*" is a good example of that.)

>> - Given this, I am not able to imagine a good way of limiting the number
>>   of allowed characters.

>> > That'd be useful information for anyone interested in changing it.

>> I'd interested in any solution to the problems above.

>> > Then
>> > you can still just tell them to write a patch if they care that much
>> > ('cause even in org-mode-land patches don't write themselves just yet)

>> :)

>> > [I just had the most awesome idea for a feature request].

>> Please share!

>> > If it's "just" about inheriting from a variable in some 300 places it
>> > could at least be discussed.

>> Yep -- if you have the energy to go through the code and see where it is
>> hardcoded while it should not, please do.

>> Thanks,

> Hi,

> I was just thinking... If you want to change the "look" of the
> org-headlines. Does one really need to change the code?

> I have been using Nicolas Girard's org-icons package for quite a while. And
> that makes org-buffers look pretty nice. You can even customise the icons, to
> make it look the way you want.

> However, some things about the org-icons package... It seems to be a little
> outdated.  Are there many org-moders out there still using it?  Were there
> ever any plans to include it in the org-distribution? Right now it needs to be
> installed by hand, because the patch to org.el is outdated...  Also, I need to
> load it two times in my .emacs before the icons work...

> Ciao,
> Renzo

> The org-icons can be found here:
> Download from Nicolas Girard's github
> http://github.com/ngirard/org-icons
> On the Worg site I could only find screenshots, no other information...
> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-screenshots.html
> The list-message announcement for org-icons
> http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=%3c87zl2962um.fsf%40stats.ox.ac.uk%3e
> And some list-messages discussing including the org-icons-patch into org-mode
> http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=%3c87zlbx3kvf.fsf%40kassiopeya.MSHEIMNETZ%3e

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Re: org-icons package

[Dan Davison]

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Hi Renzo,

org-icons needs to be moved into contrib/, hooked in via a lightweight patch
against org.el, instead of being implemented as a monolithic change to
org.el. I made a start on that in this branch:

https://github.com/dandavison/org-devel/tree/org-icons

but I'm not sure that I got very far. Note that that is a branch in a clone
of the org repo, as opposed to the org-icons repos which are standalone
repos and do not contain org.

I thought org-icons was interesting because it offers the possibility of
allowing users to make arbitrary superficial changes to org aesthetics. For
example, the #+begin_src...#+end_src boilerplate is rather heavy for some
peoples' tastes. At one point I had it replacing that with a little (ruby,
snake) for (ruby, python) code... But I think it also allows the possibility
of overlaying with text. I'd be happy to give you push access to that repo,
but, you may as well just fork it as I have no plans to work on it.

I don't know how to contact Nicolas. I believe that he is on record as
saying he did not plan to develop org-icons further.

Good luck,

Dan

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Renzo Been <swangdoodles@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Dan, Nicolas and list,
>
> In my previous mail I wrote about using (and upgrading it for use with the
> latest version of org-mode) Nicolas Girard's org-icons package, see:
> http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?group=gmane.emacs.orgmode&article=44834
>
> I've tried to contact Nicolas Girard (via e-mail and a google search). But
> I
> have not heard back from him as yet.
>
> When I checked the github for org-icons again I discovered that there was a
> second branch by Dan Davison.
> https://github.com/ngirard/org-icons/tree/dan
>
> Dan,
>
> Do you know how I can get in contact with Nicolas? Or do you have access to
> the github for org-icons, so that it's code can be updated to work with the
> latest version of org-mode? Did you and Nicolas ever think about including
> org-icons into org-mode?
>
> As for me, I'm happily using org-icons with org-mode 7.7, I've attached a
> new
> and updated patch file that works on the latest org.el
>
> Copy the patch "org-icons.patch" to the directory where you keep your
> "org.el"
> cd to that directory
> And then apply the patch like this:
> patch -b org.el org-icons.patch
>
> Of-course, if neither of you has the time to work on org-icons... I could
> make
> a fork of the git repo, and make the changes myself. However, I do not have
> much elisp knowledge...
>
> Ciao,
> Renzo
>
> On 25 July 2011 12:12, Renzo Been <swangdoodles@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Bastien <bzg <at> altern.org> writes:
>
> >> Hi Philipp,
>
> >> Philipp Haselwarter <philipp.haselwarter <at> gmx.de> writes:
>
> >> > Is there any particular reason for it to be hardcoded? Apart from the
> >> > fact that /well it just is this way right now/ I mean.
>
> >> Nothing carved in stone, but here are the two reasons I see:
>
> >> - we don't want users to use arbitrary regexp to match headlines as they
> >>   are very likely to shoot themselves in the foot (Harven's example of
> >>   using "-" instead of "*" is a good example of that.)
>
> >> - Given this, I am not able to imagine a good way of limiting the number
> >>   of allowed characters.
>
> >> > That'd be useful information for anyone interested in changing it.
>
> >> I'd interested in any solution to the problems above.
>
> >> > Then
> >> > you can still just tell them to write a patch if they care that much
> >> > ('cause even in org-mode-land patches don't write themselves just yet)
>
> >> :)
>
> >> > [I just had the most awesome idea for a feature request].
>
> >> Please share!
>
> >> > If it's "just" about inheriting from a variable in some 300 places it
> >> > could at least be discussed.
>
> >> Yep -- if you have the energy to go through the code and see where it is
> >> hardcoded while it should not, please do.
>
> >> Thanks,
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I was just thinking... If you want to change the "look" of the
> > org-headlines. Does one really need to change the code?
>
> > I have been using Nicolas Girard's org-icons package for quite a while.
> And
> > that makes org-buffers look pretty nice. You can even customise the
> icons, to
> > make it look the way you want.
>
> > However, some things about the org-icons package... It seems to be a
> little
> > outdated.  Are there many org-moders out there still using it?  Were
> there
> > ever any plans to include it in the org-distribution? Right now it needs
> to be
> > installed by hand, because the patch to org.el is outdated...  Also, I
> need to
> > load it two times in my .emacs before the icons work...
>
> > Ciao,
> > Renzo
>
> > The org-icons can be found here:
> > Download from Nicolas Girard's github
> > http://github.com/ngirard/org-icons
> > On the Worg site I could only find screenshots, no other information...
> > http://orgmode.org/worg/org-screenshots.html
> > The list-message announcement for org-icons
> >
> http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=%3c87zl2962um.fsf%40stats.ox.ac.uk%3e
> > And some list-messages discussing including the org-icons-patch into
> org-mode
> >
> http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=%3c87zlbx3kvf.fsf%40kassiopeya.MSHEIMNETZ%3e
>

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Re: org-icons package

[Bastien]

Hi Dan,

Dan Davison <dandavison7@gmail.com> writes:

> org-icons needs to be moved into contrib/, hooked in via a
> lightweight patch against org.el, instead of being implemented as a
> monolithic change to org.el. I made a start on that in this branch:
>
> https://github.com/dandavison/org-devel/tree/org-icons

Great -- let us know when we can move this to contrib/!

Best,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: org-icons package

[Renzo Been]

Oké Dan,

Understood. That sounds right; to move all the code into the
org-icons.el file. That way the patch is no longer needed, and
org-icons can live in the contrib dir (together with a directory for
the images).

I think its best if I make a fork of your repo. That gives me some
space for working on the code. Once I have made some progress (I won't
be very fast...), I will send you a Pull request.

The changes that you have made until now, are found here:
https://github.com/dandavison/org-devel/tree/org-icons/contrib/org-icons
Right?

Your right, org-icons is a nice way to change the looks of org
buffers. I'll go through the code first, to get an understanding of
what can be done.

Ciao,
Renzo

On 18 August 2011 22:48, Dan Davison <dandavison7@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Renzo,
> org-icons needs to be moved into contrib/, hooked in via a lightweight patch
> against org.el, instead of being implemented as a monolithic change to
> org.el. I made a start on that in this branch:
> https://github.com/dandavison/org-devel/tree/org-icons
> but I'm not sure that I got very far. Note that that is a branch in a clone
> of the org repo, as opposed to the org-icons repos which are standalone
> repos and do not contain org.
> I thought org-icons was interesting because it offers the possibility of
> allowing users to make arbitrary superficial changes to org aesthetics. For
> example, the #+begin_src...#+end_src boilerplate is rather heavy for some
> peoples' tastes. At one point I had it replacing that with a little (ruby,
> snake) for (ruby, python) code... But I think it also allows the possibility
> of overlaying with text. I'd be happy to give you push access to that repo,
> but, you may as well just fork it as I have no plans to work on it.
> I don't know how to contact Nicolas. I believe that he is on record as
> saying he did not plan to develop org-icons further.
> Good luck,
> Dan

Re: how to change the headline starter *

[harven]

----- Mail Original -----
De: "Bastien" <bzg@altern.org>
À: "Darlan Cavalcante Moreira" <darcamo@gmail.com>
Cc: "harven" <harven@free.fr>, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Envoyé: Samedi 2 Juillet 2011 11h48:52 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne
Objet: Re: [O] how to change the headline starter *

Hi Darlan,

Darlan Cavalcante Moreira <darcamo@gmail.com> writes:

> I don't think this is possible. The "*" as a headline starter seems to be
> hard-coded in org.

I confirm this is not possible, it's hardcoded in outline-mode, and Org
is derived from this mode.

As this is a FAQ, I added an entry in Worg/org-faq.org

Cheers,

-- 
 Bastien


Sorry for the late response. The "*" as a headline character is not hard-coded
in outline-mode. The headline character can be in fact any regexp, and is
specified in the variable outline-regexp defined in outline.el. Its default
value is "[*\f]+".

It is howewer hard-coded as a "*" e.g. in org-indent.el 
(e.g. in org-indent-initialize), and a change to outline-regexp breaks
org-mode.

BUG. How to reproduce. 
Starting with emacs -Q (this is emacs 23.2 together with org-mode 6.33),
execute in the scratch buffer
(setq outline-regexp "[-\f]+")
so as to use - as the headline starter character in outline mode.
Switch to another buffer, enter the text

- first heading 
-- second heading
   some stuff here

Activate org-mode. M-x org-mode.

Then go to the first heading. TAB folds the text as expected.
Go to the second heading. TAB inserts a TAB instead of folding 
the second heading.

Sincerely,
--
        Harven

Re: how to change the headline starter *

[Bastien]

harven@free.fr writes:

> (setq outline-regexp "[-\f]+")
> so as to use - as the headline starter character in outline mode.
> Switch to another buffer, enter the text
>
> - first heading 
> -- second heading
>    some stuff here
>
> Activate org-mode. M-x org-mode.

You should not do this.  org-mode lists start with a "-", using 
this character for headlines will just confuse things.

Can't you live with the "*" as the headline character?

My 2 cents,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: how to change the headline starter *

[Philipp Haselwarter]

Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:

> harven@free.fr writes:
>
>> (setq outline-regexp "[-\f]+")
>> so as to use - as the headline starter character in outline mode.
>> Switch to another buffer, enter the text
>>
>> - first heading 
>> -- second heading
>>    some stuff here
>>
>> Activate org-mode. M-x org-mode.
>
> You should not do this.  org-mode lists start with a "-", using 
> this character for headlines will just confuse things.
>
> Can't you live with the "*" as the headline character?
>
> My 2 cents,

Is there any particular reason for it to be hardcoded? Apart from the
fact that /well it just is this way right now/ I mean.
That'd be useful information for anyone interested in changing it. Then
you can still just tell them to write a patch if they care that much
('cause even in org-mode-land patches don't write themselves just yet)
[I just had the most awesome idea for a feature request].
If it's "just" about inheriting from a variable in some 300 places it
could at least be discussed.

-- 
Philipp Haselwarter

Re: how to change the headline starter *

[Bastien]

Hi Philipp,

Philipp Haselwarter <philipp.haselwarter@gmx.de> writes:

> Is there any particular reason for it to be hardcoded? Apart from the
> fact that /well it just is this way right now/ I mean.

Nothing carved in stone, but here are the two reasons I see:

- we don't want users to use arbitrary regexp to match headlines as they
  are very likely to shoot themselves in the foot (Harven's example of
  using "-" instead of "*" is a good example of that.)

- Given this, I am not able to imagine a good way of limiting the number
  of allowed characters.

> That'd be useful information for anyone interested in changing it. 

I'd interested in any solution to the problems above.

> Then
> you can still just tell them to write a patch if they care that much
> ('cause even in org-mode-land patches don't write themselves just yet)

:)

> [I just had the most awesome idea for a feature request].

Please share!

> If it's "just" about inheriting from a variable in some 300 places it
> could at least be discussed.

Yep -- if you have the energy to go through the code and see where it is
hardcoded while it should not, please do.  

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien

org-icons package (was: how to change the headline starter *)

[Renzo Been]

Bastien <bzg <at> altern.org> writes:

> 
> Hi Philipp,
> 
> Philipp Haselwarter <philipp.haselwarter <at> gmx.de> writes:
> 
> > Is there any particular reason for it to be hardcoded? Apart from the
> > fact that /well it just is this way right now/ I mean.
> 
> Nothing carved in stone, but here are the two reasons I see:
> 
> - we don't want users to use arbitrary regexp to match headlines as they
>   are very likely to shoot themselves in the foot (Harven's example of
>   using "-" instead of "*" is a good example of that.)
> 
> - Given this, I am not able to imagine a good way of limiting the number
>   of allowed characters.
> 
> > That'd be useful information for anyone interested in changing it. 
> 
> I'd interested in any solution to the problems above.
> 
> > Then
> > you can still just tell them to write a patch if they care that much
> > ('cause even in org-mode-land patches don't write themselves just yet)
> 
> :)
> 
> > [I just had the most awesome idea for a feature request].
> 
> Please share!
> 
> > If it's "just" about inheriting from a variable in some 300 places it
> > could at least be discussed.
> 
> Yep -- if you have the energy to go through the code and see where it is
> hardcoded while it should not, please do.  
> 
> Thanks,
> 

Hi,

I was just thinking... If you want to change the "look" of the
org-headlines. Does one really need to change the code?

I have been using Nicolas Girard's org-icons package for quite a while. And
that makes org-buffers look pretty nice. You can even customise the icons, to
make it look the way you want.

However, some things about the org-icons package... It seems to be a little
outdated.  Are there many org-moders out there still using it?  Were there
ever any plans to include it in the org-distribution? Right now it needs to be
installed by hand, because the patch to org.el is outdated...  Also, I need to
load it two times in my .emacs before the icons work...

Ciao,
Renzo

The org-icons can be found here:
Download from Nicolas Girard's github
http://github.com/ngirard/org-icons
On the Worg site I could only find screenshots, no other information...
http://orgmode.org/worg/org-screenshots.html
The list-message announcement for org-icons
http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=%3c87zl2962um.fsf%40stats.ox.ac.uk%3e
And some list-messages discussing including the org-icons-patch into org-mode
http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=%3c87zlbx3kvf.fsf%40kassiopeya.MSHEIMNETZ%3e

Re: org-icons package

[Bastien]

Hi Renzo,

Renzo Been <swangdoodles@gmail.com> writes:

> However, some things about the org-icons package... It seems to be a little
> outdated.  Are there many org-moders out there still using it?  

I'm not using it.

> Were there
> ever any plans to include it in the org-distribution? 

I don't know, I wasn't aware of this package.

> Right now it needs to be installed by hand, because the patch to
> org.el is outdated...  Also, I need to load it two times in my .emacs
> before the icons work...

The best thing would be to invite Nicolas Girard to discuss this 
on this list.  Can you do this?

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien