Frustrated user of orgmode

Frustrated user of orgmode

[Vikas Rawal]

I have been a user of orgmode for a fairly long time and have never
felt frustrated like this before. 

I have been trying to move to the new exporter and a complete absence
of any coherent documentation has made it impossible. I have tried
various versions of orgmode (master/maint braches from git, and the
elpa version), have tried to follow Nicolas's responses to my mails
(who has been very kind but there is obviously only so much that he
can do..)

Do we have even a sketchy documentation of what a user is supposed to
do? 

In the meanwhile, in frustration, I am left pulling the few hair that
remain on my head...

Vikas

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[Suvayu Ali]

On Mon, Mar 04, 2013 at 07:10:47PM +0530, Vikas Rawal wrote:
> 
> Do we have even a sketchy documentation of what a user is supposed to

<http://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#new-exporter-switch>

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[T.F. Torrey]

Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, Mar 04, 2013 at 07:10:47PM +0530, Vikas Rawal wrote:
>> 
>> Do we have even a sketchy documentation of what a user is supposed to
>
> <http://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#new-exporter-switch>

FWIW, I was trying to find this last night to answer a question, and
even though I knew exactly what I was looking for, I couldn't find it.
Granted, it was late and I was tired, but the site map has nothing, the
index has only dead ends, and the Google custom search doesn't seem to
narrow it down (lots and lots of things match "exporter" and "new", and
I couldn't remember enough specific text to make it work).  (I was
looking for the syntax for the new #+TOC keyword, and in the end I gave
up and didn't find it until right now.)

I'm not making myself sound smart here, but the point is that I will be
happy when we get the documentation migrated over.

In the meantime, if we could add some prominent links to the sitemap,
index, and Worg index.html, that would have helped me a lot, and maybe
others.

Best regards,
Terry
-- 
T.F. Torrey

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[Suvayu Ali]

On Mon, Mar 04, 2013 at 11:42:24AM -0700, T.F. Torrey wrote:
> 
> I'm not making myself sound smart here, but the point is that I will be
> happy when we get the documentation migrated over.

FWIW, Worg (and Org) is a volunteer effort.  That particular FAQ entry
started with me putting up a rather sparse 5 or so item list sometime
back.  Later it was brought to the current level of detail by Bastien
and others.  My point is, the easiest way to improve documentation is to
add it yourself[1] when you hit on something new.  If you do not know
how to add to Worg take a look here:

  <http://orgmode.org/worg/#sec-4>

If getting that to work is a problem, post on the list with the text and
someone else will add it.

Cheers,


PS: I updated the index for that entry.  Let me know if this is better.

Footnotes:

[1] Here by you I do not mean specifically you Terry, just a place
    holder for any Org user.

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[T.F. Torrey]

Hello Suvayu,

Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, Mar 04, 2013 at 11:42:24AM -0700, T.F. Torrey wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not making myself sound smart here, but the point is that I will be
>> happy when we get the documentation migrated over.
>
> FWIW, Worg (and Org) is a volunteer effort.  That particular FAQ entry
> started with me putting up a rather sparse 5 or so item list sometime
> back.  Later it was brought to the current level of detail by Bastien
> and others.  My point is, the easiest way to improve documentation is to
> add it yourself[1] when you hit on something new.

Please don't take my note as a complaint, it was intended only as a
sympathetic groan.  I well understand that Org is all-volunteer effort,
and I have the deepest appreciation for and admiration of all involved.
Emacs and Org have transformed my life!

All the same ... when I'm working on something at three in the morning,
and I *know* I saw (and saved) a bit of information, and the sitemap and
the index and even Google just shrug their shoulders.... I would have
been happy to add publicity for the information myself, if I could have
just found it!

>  If you do not know
> how to add to Worg take a look here:
>
>   <http://orgmode.org/worg/#sec-4>

I have not yet sent my public key to Bastien to become a Worg
contributor, but I expect to soon.

> If getting that to work is a problem, post on the list with the text and
> someone else will add it.

I'm pretty sure that's a given. :-)

> Cheers,
>
> PS: I updated the index for that entry.  Let me know if this is better.

Hmm.  I don't see it on the website, but it probably just hasn't been
rebuilt yet, and I don't know where you might have added the index
entry.  In the most recent pull from Worg, however, I see that Bastien
has started an Org-8.0 document.  That will be a big help.

> Footnotes:
>
> [1] Here by you I do not mean specifically you Terry, just a place
>     holder for any Org user.

Thanks to you and everyone for your contributions.

All the best,
Terry
-- 
T.F. Torrey

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[Bastien]

Hi Terry, 

tftorrey@tftorrey.com (T.F. Torrey) writes:

> (I was looking for the syntax for the new #+TOC keyword, and in the
> end I gave up and didn't find it until right now.)

This is in the manual.  If you are using Org from master, just
~$ make doc and read the info/pdf page.  The section is entitled
"Table of contents".

> In the meantime, if we could add some prominent links to the sitemap,
> index, and Worg index.html, that would have helped me a lot, and maybe
> others.

I have migrated the migration instructions and tips here:
http://orgmode.org/worg/org-8.0.html

Let's update this page as much as we can.

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[T.F. Torrey]

Hello Bastien,

Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:

> Hi Terry, 
>
> tftorrey@tftorrey.com (T.F. Torrey) writes:
>
>> (I was looking for the syntax for the new #+TOC keyword, and in the
>> end I gave up and didn't find it until right now.)
>
> This is in the manual.  If you are using Org from master, just
> ~$ make doc and read the info/pdf page.  The section is entitled
> "Table of contents".

Of course!  I actually have that so it updates automatically in my
machine, but I assumed the changes had not been documented yet.  Thanks
for the tip.

>> In the meantime, if we could add some prominent links to the sitemap,
>> index, and Worg index.html, that would have helped me a lot, and maybe
>> others.
>
> I have migrated the migration instructions and tips here:
> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-8.0.html

This is looking good.

> Let's update this page as much as we can.

I hope and expect to soon.

> Thanks!

Many thanks to you,
Terry
-- 
T.F. Torrey

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[Vikas Rawal]

> > I have migrated the migration instructions and tips here:
> > http://orgmode.org/worg/org-8.0.html
> 

I have managed to get the new exporter working. Thank you everyone for
helping. 

In case any one else is struggling with the same, following links
helped me in getting it to work:

http://orgmode.org/worg/org-8.0.html
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/65574
http://orgmode.org/worg/exporters/beamer/ox-beamer.html

I had to clone the git repository, move to the master branch and then
make.

Once again, thanks everyone,

Vikas

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[John Hendy]

On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:45 AM, Vikas Rawal
<vikaslists@agrarianresearch.org> wrote:
>> > I have migrated the migration instructions and tips here:
>> > http://orgmode.org/worg/org-8.0.html
>>
>
> I have managed to get the new exporter working. Thank you everyone for
> helping.

Glad you got it working! As promised, I created a blog post of my
transition (undertaken last weekend). Didn't go too badly and I've
been using it quite well since then:
- http://jwhendy.blogspot.com/2013/03/migrating-to-new-org-mode-exporter-org.html

I hope to get some of the finer details either added to Worg somewhere
in a usage guide to the new exporter, or perhaps just link to my post
from Worg somewhere that makes sense.


John

>
> In case any one else is struggling with the same, following links
> helped me in getting it to work:
>
> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-8.0.html
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/65574
> http://orgmode.org/worg/exporters/beamer/ox-beamer.html
>
> I had to clone the git repository, move to the master branch and then
> make.
>
> Once again, thanks everyone,
>
> Vikas
>

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[Suvayu Ali]

Hi John,

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 09:48:16AM -0500, John Hendy wrote:
> 
> I hope to get some of the finer details either added to Worg somewhere
> in a usage guide to the new exporter, or perhaps just link to my post
> from Worg somewhere that makes sense.

You can add your information here: <http://orgmode.org/worg/org-8.0.html>

Cheers,

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[John Hendy]

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 09:48:16AM -0500, John Hendy wrote:
>>
>> I hope to get some of the finer details either added to Worg somewhere
>> in a usage guide to the new exporter, or perhaps just link to my post
>> from Worg somewhere that makes sense.
>
> You can add your information here: <http://orgmode.org/worg/org-8.0.html>

That seemed to be my best guess, but it read more like a formal
announcement vs. some of the more "down and dirty" finer-detailed Worg
pages I've seen. I could see some of my stuff applying, but it also
gets into what I would think could form the start of, e.g. the updated
equivalents to:
- http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-latex-export.html
- http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/images-and-xhtml-export.html

Happy to add to the upgrade guide if that's the best place.


John

>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Suvayu
>
> Open source is the future. It sets us free.
>

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[Bastien]

Hi John,

John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:

> That seemed to be my best guess, but it read more like a formal
> announcement vs. some of the more "down and dirty" finer-detailed Worg
> pages I've seen. 

Please amend this page as you want -- the target audience is users who
will make the switch to Org 8.0.  Give as many details as needed.

The formal change logs will be on http://orgmode.org/Changes.html as
usual, and this page will point to the Worg page for details.

*Thanks* for any help in this area, it's badly needed!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[John Hendy]

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> That seemed to be my best guess, but it read more like a formal
>> announcement vs. some of the more "down and dirty" finer-detailed Worg
>> pages I've seen.
>
> Please amend this page as you want -- the target audience is users who
> will make the switch to Org 8.0.  Give as many details as needed.

That blanket permission helps... I started to add a "walkthrough"
section at the end and then realized I was duplicating some notes you
had in there, so I stopped as I didn't want to mess the document up
too much. I may make a fairly liberal attempts at a re-org just to try
and make sure the document still flows well as I add various things in
that I encountered and think others might too.


Thanks,
John

>
> The formal change logs will be on http://orgmode.org/Changes.html as
> usual, and this page will point to the Worg page for details.
>
> *Thanks* for any help in this area, it's badly needed!
>
> --
>  Bastien

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[Bastien]

Hi Vikas,

Vikas Rawal <vikaslists@agrarianresearch.org> writes:

> In the meanwhile, in frustration, I am left pulling the few hair that
> remain on my head...

How many of your hairs have been saved by Org so far?  That would be
a fair way to count :)

Joke aside, we're just doing our best, please help us by reporting
problems you encounter.  This is the master branch, the development
branch, a beta-version of Org -- users on this branch may fall off
the tree, but the community is behind.

For the next few weeks, I expect the mailing list to be more useful
than Google to get answers.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Frustrated user of orgmode

[John Hendy]

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 7:40 AM, Vikas Rawal
<vikaslists@agrarianresearch.org> wrote:
> I have been a user of orgmode for a fairly long time and have never
> felt frustrated like this before.
>
> I have been trying to move to the new exporter and a complete absence
> of any coherent documentation has made it impossible. I have tried
> various versions of orgmode (master/maint braches from git, and the
> elpa version), have tried to follow Nicolas's responses to my mails
> (who has been very kind but there is obviously only so much that he
> can do..)

Perhaps I can help. I've been using Org for a few years and not yet
done *anything* with the new exporter aside from a test export with it
many months (a year??) ago when it was first being introduced. When I
finally make the switch, I'll try to document my steps to see if there
are discrepancies with the "Switch over guide" referenced by others in
this thread. Perhaps it will help you to have a companion in the
changeover?

Your email made me want to make the change sooner vs. later for the
sake of others!


John

>
> Do we have even a sketchy documentation of what a user is supposed to
> do?
>
> In the meanwhile, in frustration, I am left pulling the few hair that
> remain on my head...
>
> Vikas
>