Re: Let's discuss citation and Org syntax

[John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com>]

On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 12:32 PM, Joseph Vidal-Rosset
<joseph.vidal.rosset@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there somewhere a documentation with a simple helpful example to follow
> from step to step in order to use ox-bibtex or bibeltex ? I got only a
> message error : "bibtex2html failed" and I do not understand why.
>
> Reading this page, for example,
> http://bowenli37.wordpress.com/tag/org-exp-bibtex/
> I understand that I must add #+LINK ..
>
> But nothing works...


I think you need to post a minimal example with everything required.
For those of us who have never used bibtex (me), it's not clear what
you're trying to do and we (at least I) can't help. For example,
googling "orgmode bibtex" produces links which don't seem to do the
same thing, from my skimming:
- http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/114864/how-to-get-bibtex-to-work-with-org-mode-latex-export
- http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2013-05/msg00791.html
- http://orgmode.org/worg/org-api/org-bibtex-api.html
- http://blog.karssen.org/2013/08/22/using-bibtex-from-org-mode/
- http://tincman.wordpress.com/2011/01/04/research-paper-management-with-emacs-org-mode-and-reftex/

For example, only one of those (that I noted), mentions anything about
#+LINK, so I'm thinking that what you are trying to do must be a
subset of everything embodied by "Orgmode and bibtex" since some
fairly complete other posts get by without mentioning using #+LINK.

Can you post:
- Minimal .org file
- Reproducible .emacs with what you currently have setup to get things working
- The matching minimal bibliography file
- Perhaps the output you want (in LaTeX or whatever output language)

Apologies if the above is self-explanatory and I'm playing the
un-needed role of mailing list police. I've noticed a lot of questions
recently without sufficient detail. Always posting with clear goals,
files so others can reproduce, and example output you want saves
others having to fill in the blanks.

You'll also get a lot more help since those generous with their time
can easily copy and paste some code into their own local Emacs setups
and see if it works. That helps differentiate setup issues from syntax
issues from usage issues, etc.



John

P.S. Also post what you actually *have* tried. This saves others
having to re-try what you tried, since no one knows that "but nothing
works" means concretely. There's a blog post link with a bunch of
stuff in it, followed by "but nothing works." What, exactly, from that
blog post did you try (as in, paste the code from the various
categories above -- org file, .emacs, bib file -- for each thing
attempted)?



>
> Thanks in advance for your help
>
> Jo.
>
>
>
> 2014/1/2 Joseph Vidal-Rosset <joseph.vidal.rosset@gmail.com>
>>
>> Great ! Many thanks Eric.  I see also that I have to forget gmail in order
>> to definitely adopt gnus ! :)
>>
>> I will be back on the list to say thank you again , to all of you.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Jo.
>>
>>
>> 2014/1/2 Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Take a look at ox-bibtex.el in contrib [1], which adds support for
>>> bibtex citations.  The commentary at the top of that file explains the
>>> usage, but in brief, ox-bibtex adds cite: links which will export to
>>> HTML, ASCII and LaTeX (using bibtex2html [2] for HTML export, and pandoc
>>> [3] for ASCII export).
>>>
>>> For example, I've used ox-bibtex to write this Org file [4], which
>>> exports to this HTML [5], as well as LaTeX.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Joseph Vidal-Rosset <joseph.vidal.rosset@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>> > Hi Rasmus, hi the list,
>>> >
>>> > Reading this thread I've understood that the question of html export of
>>> > biblatex citations is still an open problem for org-mode developers,
>>> > right
>>> > ?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks to the online manual and the help of the list, I have succeeded
>>> > to
>>> > write a template of koma-article class which is correctly exported both
>>> > in
>>> > latex and in html. But I meet the problem of exporting  into html
>>> > footnotes
>>> > and references.
>>> >
>>> > At the moment, what is the best i.e. the more convenient solution?
>>> >
>>> > My best wishes for this new year,
>>> >
>>> > Jo.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 2013/5/21 Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us>
>>> >
>>> >> Hi,
>>> >>
>>> >> Now that 8.0 has shipped let's talk bibliography support.  This
>>> >> follows directly upon the discussion around March[1].
>>> >>
>>> >> The essence of the thread was that some people agreed that it would be
>>> >> nice to have support for citation commands build into Org (I'll
>>> >> summarize in the next post).  But let me first restate my own take on
>>> >> the issue.  IMO a nice format would be:
>>> >>
>>> >> (*)   [KEYWORD PROPERTIES]
>>> >>
>>> >> I think we should allow for a more general approach than one just for
>>> >> citation and this is a good thing (IMO).
>>> >>
>>> >> The in-buffer display of (*) could be governed by
>>> >> org-buffer-format-KEYWORD (similar to
>>> >> gnus-user-format-function-LETTER) or just identity if no function is
>>> >> defined.  Export could be handled by org-BACKEND-KEYWORD or
>>> >> org-export-KEYWORD.  With officially recognized KEYWORDs something
>>> >> like citation could be a 'first-class citizen'.  PROPERTIES could be a
>>> >> string like:
>>> >>
>>> >>   optional-keyless-entry :prop1 one :prop2 two ...
>>> >>
>>> >> Perhaps, treatment of keyword, could even be handled by an
>>> >> in-buffer Org Babel function in the spirit of e.g. reproducible
>>> >> research (see below).
>>> >>
>>> >> This would be different from Org links in that (*) is more like a
>>> >> functions that allows for (i) pretty and informative display in
>>> >> buffer/export and (ii) easy user extension.
>>> >>
>>> >> I think there are many compelling use-cases for such a framework.
>>> >>
>>> >> 1. Citation: Take the keyword citetext which should be an 'official'
>>> >>    KEYWORD.  So for instance we could have
>>> >>
>>> >>      [citetext BIBTEX-KEY :prenote note, w/comma :postnote blah].
>>> >>
>>> >>    In buffers, via org-in-buffer-format-citetext, it would be
>>> >>    displayed as
>>> >>
>>> >>      BIBTEX-KEY (note, w/comma, YEAR, blah)
>>> >>
>>> >>    or something similar (depending to what extend bibtex.el would be
>>> >>    leveraged; e.g. BIBTEX-KEY might show the author/editor key and
>>> >>    YEAR would also depend on parsing a bibtex file) (obviouesly,
>>> >>    there's some reference to a bibtex file somewhere).  In LaTeX it
>>> >>    would be exported as
>>> >>
>>> >>      \citetext[note,w/comma][blah]{BIBTEX-KEY}
>>> >>
>>> >>    In html it might utilize some tool that understand bibtex (there's
>>> >>    a link to such a tool in the next post).  In ASCII it could almost
>>> >>    use what would be displayed in the buffer.
>>> >>
>>> >> 2. MY-FUN: MY-FUN is some function that does something with some
>>> >>    properties, perhaps just a string (simple cases: [sc text] is used
>>> >>    for small caps, or mayhaps [my-treat-dna-string DNA-STRING]).  I
>>> >>    might use it in a single file that I want to send to people or I
>>> >>    might just use it in my notes.  Currently it's implemented via
>>> >>    org-emphasis-alist or as a link.  Changing emphases is a hacks, and
>>> >>    they are hard to export with the now more robust Org syntax and
>>> >>    further permit little control over how they are displayed
>>> >>    in-buffer.  Links are more flexible but lacks display control and
>>> >>    becomes somewhat painful with many arguments[2].  Also, MY-FUN
>>> >>    doesn't take a 'description'.  With (*) I could simply write
>>> >>
>>> >>      [MY-FUN PROPERTIES].
>>> >>
>>> >>    Perhaps, I could even define org-BACKEND-MY-FUN in a babel block
>>> >>    if it's only relevant to the current file.
>>> >>
>>> >> There's been some work and some discussion on this already, most
>>> >> notably Aaron already supplied some patches towards this end[3],
>>> >> but using a slightly different syntax more like the link syntax;
>>> >> e.g. textcite above would look like
>>> >>
>>> >>   [[textcite:bibtex-key&&pre%3Dfoo&&post%3Dbar][whatever]]
>>> >>
>>> >> where whatever is ignored.  The state of the discussion is to some
>>> >> extend summarized in the next post.
>>> >>
>>> >> It would love to hear whether other people find something like this to
>>> >> be a good idea?  Would anyone find a use such a framework?  Would (*)
>>> >> conflict with anyone's current usage of Org?  Is (*) too ambitious and
>>> >> in terms of getting citation support?  Is this is taking a musket to
>>> >> kill a butterfly?  What are the the flaws in the above.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm not a good (lisp) programmer, but I think I have a month off this
>>> >> summer where I could work on something like the above.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks for reading,
>>> >> Rasmus
>>> >>
>>> >> Footnotes:
>>> >> [1] http://mid.gmane.org/20130303070635.GA12112%40panahar
>>> >> [2] my citation links often look like postnote;prenote without
>>> >> showing the BIBTEX-KEY or citation format.
>>> >> [2] here http://mid.gmane.org/87lia0s7wi.fsf%40bzg.ath.cx
>>> >> and here http://mid.gmane.org/87wqthk7vj.fsf%40gmail.com.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> When in doubt, do it!
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>> Footnotes:
>>> [1]
>>> http://orgmode.org/w/?p=org-mode.git;a=blob_plain;f=contrib/lisp/ox-bibtex.el;hb=HEAD
>>>
>>> [2]  http://www.lri.fr/~filliatr/bibtex2html/
>>>
>>> [3]  http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/
>>>
>>> [4]
>>> https://github.com/eschulte/netgear-repair/blob/master/pub/netgear-repair.org
>>>
>>> [5]  http://eschulte.github.io/netgear-repair/pub/netgear-repair.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Eric Schulte
>>> https://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
>>> PGP: 0x614CA05D
>>
>>
>