Re: Using orgmode to take "inline notes" for research

Re: Using orgmode to take "inline notes" for research

[Rustom Mody]

Jeff Horn wrote
> Have you tried using org-inline-task without a TODO keyword? These super-deep "headlines" aren't
> treated as headlines, so they don't break doc structure, but they are foldable, and unlike COMMENT keyword headlines,
> they're printable. The only problem I've run into is have a lot to say in an inline note. In that case, one could just insert plaintext
> between the pseudo-headings of the inline note (try it to see what I mean).
> I haven't tried printing these long notes, but I imagine it would work.

My org-modules seems to have org-inlinetask
But I dont seem to see any of these variables available in my emacs

emacs version 23
org version 7.5

Re: Re: Using orgmode to take "inline notes" for research

[Samuel Wales]

I agree this is interesting.

Another option is an annotation mechanism with unbreakable
bidirectional links -- ID markers work for this.  You can stick the
markers anywhere.

If the thing to be annotated is read-only, I have other ideas.

Samuel

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic:
  http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2010/12/welcome-to-kafka-pandemic-two-forces_9182.html
I support the Whittemore-Peterson Institute (WPI)
===
I want to see the original (pre-hold) Lo et al. 2010 NIH/FDA/Harvard MRV paper.

Re: Re: Using orgmode to take "inline notes" for research

[John Hendy]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree this is interesting.
>
> Another option is an annotation mechanism with unbreakable
> bidirectional links -- ID markers work for this.  You can stick the
> markers anywhere.

Heck yes -- this sounds *awesome*. Could you give an example? I'd be
interested in this regardless, as what I might export could, indeed,
have an insanely good use for links like this to go back and forth
between various places.

>
> If the thing to be annotated is read-only, I have other ideas.

Nope -- I grab the html, futz with it, massage it into a usable
org-mode file, and then use that for notes and export to PDF.


Thanks,
John

>
> Samuel
>
> --
> The Kafka Pandemic:
>  http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2010/12/welcome-to-kafka-pandemic-two-forces_9182.html
> I support the Whittemore-Peterson Institute (WPI)
> ===
> I want to see the original (pre-hold) Lo et al. 2010 NIH/FDA/Harvard MRV paper.
>
>

Using orgmode to take "inline notes" for research

[John Hendy]

Hi,


One thing I really like to use orgmode for is research. Lately,
there's a mass of stuff on-line that I've been reading though and am
about to start reading through a series of articles and had the idea
to yank them into org for "inline notes."

My current experiment has been:
- wget the website page
- run a custom script of simple sed stuff to get the major stuff
converted (<i> & </i> -> /, &quote; -> ", etc.)
- turn things into headlines where applicable
- manually tweak the rest

What I'd like to do is find some way to take notes in the article and
would like some suggestions from anyone who's done this. On one hand,
I see the idea of keeping a separate headline for notes, and for a
series of articles, my file might look like this:
,---
| * Article 1
| ** Notes on article 1
| * Article 2
| ** Notes on article 2
`---

One advantage to this is that I could very easily add :noexport: to my
notes and print off a hard copy of the article if I want it, and it
would also be easy to tag my notes :notes: and then replace-string to
turn the Article :export: into :noexport: and :notes: into :export:.
Then I'd have an easy to print copy of my notes for each article.

On the other hand, I like quoting when I use notes, and could see it
as advantageous to have something like:
,---
| * Article 1
| It goes along and says x, y, and z.
| --- Me: that's interesting and here are my thoughts.
|
| It continues along saying all kinds of other things and my comments
are interjected whenever I want.
`---

I think that might be more useful for studying things later, as I get
to see an "annotated" version with my thoughts at the time I read it.
What it *doesn't* allow for is the easy printing of both the article
and the notes separately if I want.

Would someone suggest a way that I might be able to have the best of
both worlds? Some of my own not-at-all-hashed-out-ideas included:
- using footnotes since org has easy ways to jump from one to another,
but this would be tough when it came to actual footnotes, which there
will definitely be plenty of.

- highlighting the text I want to quote and then using refile somehow
to send it off to my notes section with my comments. This would be
cool if I could, at the same time, add an org-mode link to and from
the notes and original section, but also if I could turn that link off
when I export to PDF so I don't have hypertext to a non-existent link
if I don't export my notes as well.

Part of the reason that keeping notes/article separate is that I have
others interested in the articles and, if I need to send them a copy,
I want to get my junk out of there and have the original. I suppose I
could just keep two copies, though?

I think this idea could be useful to others and actually wouldn't
doubt if someone has an awesome setup for something like this already.


Thanks for any suggestions!
John

Re: Using orgmode to take "inline notes" for research

[Jeff Horn]

Have you tried using org-inline-task without a TODO keyword? These
super-deep "headlines" aren't treated as headlines, so they don't
break doc structure, but they are foldable, and unlike COMMENT keyword
headlines, they're printable. The only problem I've run into is have a
lot to say in an inline note. In that case, one could just insert
plaintext between the pseudo-headings of the inline note (try it to
see what I mean). I haven't tried printing these long notes, but I
imagine it would work.

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:02 PM, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> One thing I really like to use orgmode for is research. Lately,
> there's a mass of stuff on-line that I've been reading though and am
> about to start reading through a series of articles and had the idea
> to yank them into org for "inline notes."
>
> My current experiment has been:
> - wget the website page
> - run a custom script of simple sed stuff to get the major stuff
> converted (<i> & </i> -> /, &quote; -> ", etc.)
> - turn things into headlines where applicable
> - manually tweak the rest
>
> What I'd like to do is find some way to take notes in the article and
> would like some suggestions from anyone who's done this. On one hand,
> I see the idea of keeping a separate headline for notes, and for a
> series of articles, my file might look like this:
> ,---
> | * Article 1
> | ** Notes on article 1
> | * Article 2
> | ** Notes on article 2
> `---
>
> One advantage to this is that I could very easily add :noexport: to my
> notes and print off a hard copy of the article if I want it, and it
> would also be easy to tag my notes :notes: and then replace-string to
> turn the Article :export: into :noexport: and :notes: into :export:.
> Then I'd have an easy to print copy of my notes for each article.
>
> On the other hand, I like quoting when I use notes, and could see it
> as advantageous to have something like:
> ,---
> | * Article 1
> | It goes along and says x, y, and z.
> | --- Me: that's interesting and here are my thoughts.
> |
> | It continues along saying all kinds of other things and my comments
> are interjected whenever I want.
> `---
>
> I think that might be more useful for studying things later, as I get
> to see an "annotated" version with my thoughts at the time I read it.
> What it *doesn't* allow for is the easy printing of both the article
> and the notes separately if I want.
>
> Would someone suggest a way that I might be able to have the best of
> both worlds? Some of my own not-at-all-hashed-out-ideas included:
> - using footnotes since org has easy ways to jump from one to another,
> but this would be tough when it came to actual footnotes, which there
> will definitely be plenty of.
>
> - highlighting the text I want to quote and then using refile somehow
> to send it off to my notes section with my comments. This would be
> cool if I could, at the same time, add an org-mode link to and from
> the notes and original section, but also if I could turn that link off
> when I export to PDF so I don't have hypertext to a non-existent link
> if I don't export my notes as well.
>
> Part of the reason that keeping notes/article separate is that I have
> others interested in the articles and, if I need to send them a copy,
> I want to get my junk out of there and have the original. I suppose I
> could just keep two copies, though?
>
> I think this idea could be useful to others and actually wouldn't
> doubt if someone has an awesome setup for something like this already.
>
>
> Thanks for any suggestions!
> John
>
>



-- 
Jeffrey Horn
http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/

Re: Using orgmode to take "inline notes" for research

[John Hendy]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Jeff Horn <jrhorn424@gmail.com> wrote:
> Have you tried using org-inline-task without a TODO keyword? These
> super-deep "headlines" aren't treated as headlines, so they don't
> break doc structure, but they are foldable, and unlike COMMENT keyword
> headlines, they're printable. The only problem I've run into is have a
> lot to say in an inline note. In that case, one could just insert
> plaintext between the pseudo-headings of the inline note (try it to
> see what I mean). I haven't tried printing these long notes, but I
> imagine it would work.

Yeah, this might be the ticket. Really liking it so far. I see your
point about exporting long-ish comments, and I will definitely have
those. It looks pretty darn good to me, though. One thing I'm not sure
of is how to perhaps format them differently depending on if I want
just the notes, or if I want inline comments.

Inline comments already look pretty good, and I can do something like this:
,-----
| *************** Notes
| Here's some notes just want to see how this looks. Here's some notes
just want to see
| how this looks.
|
| Here's some notes just want to see how this looks. Here's some notes
just want to see
| how this looks.
| *************** END
`-----

Then on export I get a nice bold *Notes* followed by my notes:
,---
| *Notes* Here's some notes just want to see how this looks...
| \linebreak is here
| Here's some notes just want to see how this looks...
`-----

If I add :export: to that Notes headline (and all of them), then it
breaks them up a bit:
,-----
| *Notes*
| \linebreak is here
| Here's some notes just want to see how this looks...
| \linebreak is here
| Here's some notes just want to see how this looks...
`-----

So... if I were just interested in my notes (say I wanted to just push
the notes to my blog or share them without all the other text), it
might get odd to see all of those headlines. Can one export just the
text and hide the headline text altogether? And would this also create
the appearance of simply paragraphs one after the other, or would
there be some increased spacing between different chunks?

Lastly, it would be fantastic to have a "toggle" on the style used for
export of these. I would love to be able to have the inline notes
perhaps indented a little bit, but when exporting them alone, to turn
that off.

That's a lot of requests! I think as-is, I could already make this
work pretty darn well. I was aware of these, but was thinking they
were just for tasks and headlines, not able to contain text.

Thanks for the suggestion!


John


>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:02 PM, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> One thing I really like to use orgmode for is research. Lately,
>> there's a mass of stuff on-line that I've been reading though and am
>> about to start reading through a series of articles and had the idea
>> to yank them into org for "inline notes."
>>
>> My current experiment has been:
>> - wget the website page
>> - run a custom script of simple sed stuff to get the major stuff
>> converted (<i> & </i> -> /, &quote; -> ", etc.)
>> - turn things into headlines where applicable
>> - manually tweak the rest
>>
>> What I'd like to do is find some way to take notes in the article and
>> would like some suggestions from anyone who's done this. On one hand,
>> I see the idea of keeping a separate headline for notes, and for a
>> series of articles, my file might look like this:
>> ,---
>> | * Article 1
>> | ** Notes on article 1
>> | * Article 2
>> | ** Notes on article 2
>> `---
>>
>> One advantage to this is that I could very easily add :noexport: to my
>> notes and print off a hard copy of the article if I want it, and it
>> would also be easy to tag my notes :notes: and then replace-string to
>> turn the Article :export: into :noexport: and :notes: into :export:.
>> Then I'd have an easy to print copy of my notes for each article.
>>
>> On the other hand, I like quoting when I use notes, and could see it
>> as advantageous to have something like:
>> ,---
>> | * Article 1
>> | It goes along and says x, y, and z.
>> | --- Me: that's interesting and here are my thoughts.
>> |
>> | It continues along saying all kinds of other things and my comments
>> are interjected whenever I want.
>> `---
>>
>> I think that might be more useful for studying things later, as I get
>> to see an "annotated" version with my thoughts at the time I read it.
>> What it *doesn't* allow for is the easy printing of both the article
>> and the notes separately if I want.
>>
>> Would someone suggest a way that I might be able to have the best of
>> both worlds? Some of my own not-at-all-hashed-out-ideas included:
>> - using footnotes since org has easy ways to jump from one to another,
>> but this would be tough when it came to actual footnotes, which there
>> will definitely be plenty of.
>>
>> - highlighting the text I want to quote and then using refile somehow
>> to send it off to my notes section with my comments. This would be
>> cool if I could, at the same time, add an org-mode link to and from
>> the notes and original section, but also if I could turn that link off
>> when I export to PDF so I don't have hypertext to a non-existent link
>> if I don't export my notes as well.
>>
>> Part of the reason that keeping notes/article separate is that I have
>> others interested in the articles and, if I need to send them a copy,
>> I want to get my junk out of there and have the original. I suppose I
>> could just keep two copies, though?
>>
>> I think this idea could be useful to others and actually wouldn't
>> doubt if someone has an awesome setup for something like this already.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions!
>> John
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jeffrey Horn
> http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/
>

Re: Using orgmode to take "inline notes" for research

[Jeff Horn]

On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 12:33 PM, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
> So... if I were just interested in my notes (say I wanted to just push
> the notes to my blog or share them without all the other text), it
> might get odd to see all of those headlines. Can one export just the
> text and hide the headline text altogether? And would this also create
> the appearance of simply paragraphs one after the other, or would
> there be some increased spacing between different chunks?

AFAIK, "inline-tasks" don't have to have headlines. For instance:

,----[ org-inlinetask example ]
| *************** NOTES
| Test note with a headline word.
| *************** END
|
| ***************
| Test note with blank headline.
| *************** END
`----

exports to ASCII as:

,----[ ASCII export ]
|      -- NOTES
|          ¦ Test note with a headline word.
|
|      --
|          ¦ Test note with blank headline.
`----

> Lastly, it would be fantastic to have a "toggle" on the style used for
> export of these. I would love to be able to have the inline notes
> perhaps indented a little bit, but when exporting them alone, to turn
> that off.

That's out of my depth. Maybe someone else has a suggestion?

> Thanks for the suggestion!

No problem. As a note for others searching on this, I'll just go ahead
and re-iterate that if you don't want a particular inline-task to be
printed, just add the :noexport: tag to the headline.

Sebastian, or others: One is able to add properties to inline-style
headlines correct? John could add an HTML container class property and
use a stylesheet to play with HTML export, including "indentation",
but I don't know if there is any equivalent help from the LaTeX
exporter.

-- 
Jeffrey Horn
http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/

Re: Using orgmode to take "inline notes" for research

[Sébastien Vauban]

Hi Jeff,

Jeff Horn wrote:
> No problem. As a note for others searching on this, I'll just go ahead and
> re-iterate that if you don't want a particular inline-task to be printed,
> just add the :noexport: tag to the headline.

Better to say it twice!

> Sebastian, or others: One is able to add properties to inline-style
> headlines correct? John could add an HTML container class property and use a
> stylesheet to play with HTML export, including "indentation", but I don't
> know if there is any equivalent help from the LaTeX exporter.

This is my current config for nice styling:

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
  ;; initial state (TODO keyword) of inline tasks
  (setq org-inlinetask-default-state "TODO")

  ;; templates for inline tasks in various exporters
  (setq org-inlinetask-export-templates
        '((html "<pre class=\"inlinetask\"><b>%s%s</b>%s</pre>"
                '((unless (eq todo "")
                    (format "<span class=\"%s %s\">%s%s</span> "
                            class todo todo priority))
                  heading content))
          (latex "\\todo[inline]{\\textbf{\\textsf{%s %s}}\\linebreak{} %s}"
                 '((unless (eq todo "")
                     (format "\\textsc{%s%s}" todo priority))
                   heading content))
          (ascii "     -- %s%s%s"
                 '((unless (eq todo "")
                     (format "%s%s " todo priority))
                   heading
                   (unless (eq content "")
                     (format "\n         ¦ %s"
                             (mapconcat 'identity
                                        (org-split-string content "\n")
                                        "\n         ¦ ")))))))
#+end_src

Customize to your own taste (and report back!)...

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban

Re: Re: Using orgmode to take "inline notes" for research

[John Hendy]

2011/4/7 Sébastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf@spammotel.com>:
> Hi Jeff,
>
>
> This is my current config for nice styling:
>
> #+begin_src emacs-lisp
>   <snip>
> #+end_src
>
> Customize to your own taste (and report back!)...

I can't have something set up right. I was doubtful that I was going
this source block thing right when Eric posted his suggestion for
notes in code blocks. So, I pasted this into my org-mode file and
evaluated it. Is that not what I'm supposed to do? At the top of the
resultant pdf, I get:
,---
| language=Lisp (setq org-inlinetask-default-state "TODO")
| ;; templates for inline tasks in various exporters (setq
org-inlinetask-export-templates ’((html "<pre
|  ̈
| class=ïnlinetask><b>’((unless (eq todo "") (format "<span class= ̈
lass todo todo priority)) heading
| c
| ----------and more------------
`---

Then my document is below. It does do *something* -- my inline note
changed from:
,-----
| *Inline headline* my notes on the first line which wrap to
|          more notes spilling onto second line, which wrap to
|          more notes onto a third line
`-----

to:
,-----
| [inline] *Inline headline* (and this is spread across the entire
width of the page)
| my notes on the first line which wrap to
| more notes spilling onto second line, which wrap to
| more notes onto a third line
`-----

What am I goofing up. Sorry, I've never used babel blocks like this!
Only for stuff like gnuplot, ditaa, etc. Is there something different
I should be doing to evaluate an elisp block that sets in-file
settings?


Thanks,
John


>
> Best regards,
>  Seb
>
> --
> Sébastien Vauban
>
>
>

Re: Re: Using orgmode to take "inline notes" for research

[Jeff Horn]

2011/4/7 John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com>:
> I can't have something set up right. I was doubtful that I was going
> this source block thing right when Eric posted his suggestion for
> notes in code blocks. So, I pasted this into my org-mode file and
> evaluated it. Is that not what I'm supposed to do? At the top of the
> resultant pdf, I get:
> <snip>

Try pasting Seb's code into the *scratch* buffer, not the org-mode
buffer. Once you evaluate it in the scratch buffer, you should be to
make inline-tasks/headlines as normal and export to pdf to get the
style defined by the lisp code. From reading it, it should be the
headline content in small caps, followed by a line return, and text
notes.

If you like it, you can add the customizations to an init file, or use
the customize interface to set things up.

-- 
Jeffrey Horn
http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/

Re: Re: Using orgmode to take "inline notes" for research

[John Hendy]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1482 bytes --]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Jeff Horn <jrhorn424@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/4/7 John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com>:
>> I can't have something set up right. I was doubtful that I was going
>> this source block thing right when Eric posted his suggestion for
>> notes in code blocks. So, I pasted this into my org-mode file and
>> evaluated it. Is that not what I'm supposed to do? At the top of the
>> resultant pdf, I get:
>> <snip>
>
> Try pasting Seb's code into the *scratch* buffer, not the org-mode
> buffer. Once you evaluate it in the scratch buffer, you should be to
> make inline-tasks/headlines as normal and export to pdf to get the
> style defined by the lisp code. From reading it, it should be the
> headline content in small caps, followed by a line return, and text
> notes.
>
> If you like it, you can add the customizations to an init file, or use
> the customize interface to set things up.

Something's still not right. This:
------
* Top headline
Some notes about this stuff to see how this custom export works! Some
notes about
this stuff to see how this custom export works!

*************** An inline section
Here's some text inside an inline section; let's see what the format
looks like on
export!
*************** END

Some notes about this stuff to see how this custom export works! Some
notes about
this stuff to see how this custom export works!
------

Is producing the attached.


John

>
> --
> Jeffrey Horn
> http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/
>

[-- Attachment #2: test.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 58826 bytes --]