[BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[Chris Maier]

In "normal" Org code blocks (e.g. #+begin_src clojure .... #+end_src)
it's possible to hit C-c ' and edit the block code in a separate
buffer with the appropriate mode.  This doesn't appear to work when
using org-exp-blocks to edit a "begin_dot" block.

Is there a command to do this?

Thanks,
Chris

Re: [BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[Eric S Fraga]

Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:

> In "normal" Org code blocks (e.g. #+begin_src clojure .... #+end_src)
> it's possible to hit C-c ' and edit the block code in a separate
> buffer with the appropriate mode.  This doesn't appear to work when
> using org-exp-blocks to edit a "begin_dot" block.
>
> Is there a command to do this?

No idea but what about using #+begin_src dot ... #+end_src?
-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1
: using Org-mode version 7.4 (release_7.4.324.gca7a)

Re: [BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[Sébastien Vauban]

Hi Chris,

Chris Maier wrote:
> In "normal" Org code blocks (e.g. #+begin_src clojure .... #+end_src) it's
> possible to hit C-c ' and edit the block code in a separate buffer with the
> appropriate mode. This doesn't appear to work when using org-exp-blocks to
> edit a "begin_dot" block.
>
> Is there a command to do this?

I don't know... but you clearly should move your begin_dot code to a:

#+begin_src dot
...
#+end_src

block.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban


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Re: [BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[Chris Maier]

The begin_dot is part of org-exp-blocks, as I understand it, and
appears required to make it evaluate the Dot code, create the image
file, and then incorporate that into the exported document (LaTeX,
HTML, etc.)

Thanks,
Chris

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:56 AM, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
> Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> In "normal" Org code blocks (e.g. #+begin_src clojure .... #+end_src)
>> it's possible to hit C-c ' and edit the block code in a separate
>> buffer with the appropriate mode.  This doesn't appear to work when
>> using org-exp-blocks to edit a "begin_dot" block.
>>
>> Is there a command to do this?
>
> No idea but what about using #+begin_src dot ... #+end_src?
> --
> : Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1
> : using Org-mode version 7.4 (release_7.4.324.gca7a)
>

Re: [BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[Eric S Fraga]

Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:

> The begin_dot is part of org-exp-blocks, as I understand it, and
> appears required to make it evaluate the Dot code, create the image
> file, and then incorporate that into the exported document (LaTeX,
> HTML, etc.)
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:56 AM, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> In "normal" Org code blocks (e.g. #+begin_src clojure .... #+end_src)
>>> it's possible to hit C-c ' and edit the block code in a separate
>>> buffer with the appropriate mode.  This doesn't appear to work when
>>> using org-exp-blocks to edit a "begin_dot" block.
>>>
>>> Is there a command to do this?
>>
>> No idea but what about using #+begin_src dot ... #+end_src?
>> --
>> : Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1
>> : using Org-mode version 7.4 (release_7.4.324.gca7a)
>>

Yes, I know; I used to use begin_dot and begin_ditaa quite a bit.  My
understanding is that babel knows about dot and therefore provides the
same functionality, albeit in a different way, possibly more confusing
but definitely more customisable and hence more powerful.  babel gives
you access to features such as fontification, mode specific editing,
caching.

I am not sure what the intended long term development for these special
export blocks might be?  org's long term growth (development of
features) is organic and responsive, not planned per se (and I mean this
in a positive way as planned software projects seldom achieve their
goals...)  so it may be that nobody can answer this question!

In any case, I didn't mean to imply that you cannot continue using these
specific export blocks or that they don't do the job they were intended
for.  Simply that maybe babel is the route to go if you want to be able
to use mode specific editing.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1
: using Org-mode version 7.4 (release_7.4.324.gca7a)

Re: [BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[Dan Davison]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> The begin_dot is part of org-exp-blocks, as I understand it, and
>> appears required to make it evaluate the Dot code, create the image
>> file, and then incorporate that into the exported document (LaTeX,
>> HTML, etc.)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:56 AM, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>>> Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> In "normal" Org code blocks (e.g. #+begin_src clojure .... #+end_src)
>>>> it's possible to hit C-c ' and edit the block code in a separate
>>>> buffer with the appropriate mode.  This doesn't appear to work when
>>>> using org-exp-blocks to edit a "begin_dot" block.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a command to do this?
>>>
>>> No idea but what about using #+begin_src dot ... #+end_src?
>>> --
>>> : Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1
>>> : using Org-mode version 7.4 (release_7.4.324.gca7a)
>>>
>
> Yes, I know; I used to use begin_dot and begin_ditaa quite a bit.  My
> understanding is that babel knows about dot and therefore provides the
> same functionality, albeit in a different way,

I vote for removing / deprecating the dot and ditaa functionality of
org-exp-blocks.


> possibly more confusing
> but definitely more customisable and hence more powerful.  babel gives
> you access to features such as fontification, mode specific editing,
> caching.
>
> I am not sure what the intended long term development for these special
> export blocks might be?  org's long term growth (development of
> features) is organic and responsive, not planned per se (and I mean this
> in a positive way as planned software projects seldom achieve their
> goals...)  so it may be that nobody can answer this question!
>
> In any case, I didn't mean to imply that you cannot continue using these
> specific export blocks or that they don't do the job they were intended
> for.  Simply that maybe babel is the route to go if you want to be able
> to use mode specific editing.

Re: [BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[Chris Maier]

I fixed my problem... had to dig around in the source of ob-dot.el,
though, since it doesn't appear to be on the website [1].  There are
some additional undocumented header parameters that ob-dot adds to the
standard Babel params.

With org-exp-blocks you do this:

#+begin_dot foo.png -Tpng
... dot code ...
#+end_dot

With plain old Babel, you do this:

#+begin_src dot :file foo.png :cmdline -Tpng
... dot code ...
#+end_src

Knowing this now, I'd argue for deprecating org-exp-blocks, too.

Now my question changes slightly.  With the src block configured as
above, I can export and execute the code fine, but when I type C-c '
to edit the Dot code in a separate buffer, it goes into fundamental
mode, even though I have graphviz-dot-mode [2] installed and working
fine.  I suspect it might be because it's called "graphviz-dot-mode"
instead of just "dot-mode" (that's just speculation on my part,
though).

Is there a way to explicitly associate an major mode with a particular
kind of language block?

Thanks,
Chris

[1] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages.html
[2] http://users.skynet.be/ppareit/projects/graphviz-dot-mode/graphviz-dot-mode.html

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Dan Davison <dandavison7@gmail.com> wrote:
> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> The begin_dot is part of org-exp-blocks, as I understand it, and
>>> appears required to make it evaluate the Dot code, create the image
>>> file, and then incorporate that into the exported document (LaTeX,
>>> HTML, etc.)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:56 AM, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>> Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> In "normal" Org code blocks (e.g. #+begin_src clojure .... #+end_src)
>>>>> it's possible to hit C-c ' and edit the block code in a separate
>>>>> buffer with the appropriate mode.  This doesn't appear to work when
>>>>> using org-exp-blocks to edit a "begin_dot" block.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a command to do this?
>>>>
>>>> No idea but what about using #+begin_src dot ... #+end_src?
>>>> --
>>>> : Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1
>>>> : using Org-mode version 7.4 (release_7.4.324.gca7a)
>>>>
>>
>> Yes, I know; I used to use begin_dot and begin_ditaa quite a bit.  My
>> understanding is that babel knows about dot and therefore provides the
>> same functionality, albeit in a different way,
>
> I vote for removing / deprecating the dot and ditaa functionality of
> org-exp-blocks.
>
>
>> possibly more confusing
>> but definitely more customisable and hence more powerful.  babel gives
>> you access to features such as fontification, mode specific editing,
>> caching.
>>
>> I am not sure what the intended long term development for these special
>> export blocks might be?  org's long term growth (development of
>> features) is organic and responsive, not planned per se (and I mean this
>> in a positive way as planned software projects seldom achieve their
>> goals...)  so it may be that nobody can answer this question!
>>
>> In any case, I didn't mean to imply that you cannot continue using these
>> specific export blocks or that they don't do the job they were intended
>> for.  Simply that maybe babel is the route to go if you want to be able
>> to use mode specific editing.
>

Re: [BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[Dan Davison]

Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:

> I fixed my problem... had to dig around in the source of ob-dot.el,
> though, since it doesn't appear to be on the website [1].  There are
> some additional undocumented header parameters that ob-dot adds to the
> standard Babel params.
>
> With org-exp-blocks you do this:
>
> #+begin_dot foo.png -Tpng
> ... dot code ...
> #+end_dot
>
> With plain old Babel, you do this:
>
> #+begin_src dot :file foo.png :cmdline -Tpng
> ... dot code ...
> #+end_src
>
> Knowing this now, I'd argue for deprecating org-exp-blocks, too.
>
> Now my question changes slightly.  With the src block configured as
> above, I can export and execute the code fine, but when I type C-c '
> to edit the Dot code in a separate buffer, it goes into fundamental
> mode, even though I have graphviz-dot-mode [2] installed and working
> fine.  I suspect it might be because it's called "graphviz-dot-mode"
> instead of just "dot-mode" (that's just speculation on my part,
> though).
>
> Is there a way to explicitly associate an major mode with a particular
> kind of language block?

Hi Chris,

Yes, see the variable org-src-lang-modes. Use customize, or something
like this:

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
(aput 'org-src-lang-modes "dot" 'graphviz-dot)
#+end_src

(Elisp question: I can't remember why we don't use aput in org-mode?
What's the idiomatic org way of doing that?

This

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
(setq org-src-lang-modes
      (append '(("dot" . graphviz-dot))
              (delq (assoc "dot" org-src-lang-modes)
                    org-src-lang-modes)))
#+end_src

doesn't work if there's already more than one entry for "dot")

Dan

>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
> [1] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages.html
> [2] http://users.skynet.be/ppareit/projects/graphviz-dot-mode/graphviz-dot-mode.html
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Dan Davison <dandavison7@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>>
>>> Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> The begin_dot is part of org-exp-blocks, as I understand it, and
>>>> appears required to make it evaluate the Dot code, create the image
>>>> file, and then incorporate that into the exported document (LaTeX,
>>>> HTML, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:56 AM, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In "normal" Org code blocks (e.g. #+begin_src clojure .... #+end_src)
>>>>>> it's possible to hit C-c ' and edit the block code in a separate
>>>>>> buffer with the appropriate mode.  This doesn't appear to work when
>>>>>> using org-exp-blocks to edit a "begin_dot" block.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a command to do this?
>>>>>
>>>>> No idea but what about using #+begin_src dot ... #+end_src?
>>>>> --
>>>>> : Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1
>>>>> : using Org-mode version 7.4 (release_7.4.324.gca7a)
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I know; I used to use begin_dot and begin_ditaa quite a bit.  My
>>> understanding is that babel knows about dot and therefore provides the
>>> same functionality, albeit in a different way,
>>
>> I vote for removing / deprecating the dot and ditaa functionality of
>> org-exp-blocks.
>>
>>
>>> possibly more confusing
>>> but definitely more customisable and hence more powerful.  babel gives
>>> you access to features such as fontification, mode specific editing,
>>> caching.
>>>
>>> I am not sure what the intended long term development for these special
>>> export blocks might be?  org's long term growth (development of
>>> features) is organic and responsive, not planned per se (and I mean this
>>> in a positive way as planned software projects seldom achieve their
>>> goals...)  so it may be that nobody can answer this question!
>>>
>>> In any case, I didn't mean to imply that you cannot continue using these
>>> specific export blocks or that they don't do the job they were intended
>>> for.  Simply that maybe babel is the route to go if you want to be able
>>> to use mode specific editing.
>>
>
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> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
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Re: Re: [BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[Eric Schulte]

Dan Davison <dandavison7@gmail.com> writes:

> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> The begin_dot is part of org-exp-blocks, as I understand it, and
>>> appears required to make it evaluate the Dot code, create the image
>>> file, and then incorporate that into the exported document (LaTeX,
>>> HTML, etc.)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:56 AM, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>> Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> In "normal" Org code blocks (e.g. #+begin_src clojure .... #+end_src)
>>>>> it's possible to hit C-c ' and edit the block code in a separate
>>>>> buffer with the appropriate mode.  This doesn't appear to work when
>>>>> using org-exp-blocks to edit a "begin_dot" block.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a command to do this?
>>>>
>>>> No idea but what about using #+begin_src dot ... #+end_src?
>>>> --
>>>> : Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1
>>>> : using Org-mode version 7.4 (release_7.4.324.gca7a)
>>>>
>>
>> Yes, I know; I used to use begin_dot and begin_ditaa quite a bit.  My
>> understanding is that babel knows about dot and therefore provides the
>> same functionality, albeit in a different way,
>
> I vote for removing / deprecating the dot and ditaa functionality of
> org-exp-blocks.
>

I also vote for removing the dot and ditaa block types from
org-exp-blocks, left over from before the existence of begin_src blocks.
As the original developer of org-exp-blocks, I no longer maintain it in
favor of focusing on begin_src blocks.

The only downside to removing these block types is breaking existing
Org-mode files... Perhaps we could add a deprecation warning which will
appear as a message every time a begin_dot or begin_ditaa blocks is
evaluate, then after a month or so of warning we can remove those blocks
entirely.

Thoughts? -- Eric

Re: [BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[Chris Maier]

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Dan Davison <dandavison7@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris Maier <christopher.maier@gmail.com> writes:
>> Is there a way to explicitly associate an major mode with a particular
>> kind of language block?
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Yes, see the variable org-src-lang-modes. Use customize, or something
> like this:
>
> #+begin_src emacs-lisp
> (aput 'org-src-lang-modes "dot" 'graphviz-dot)
> #+end_src
>
> (Elisp question: I can't remember why we don't use aput in org-mode?
> What's the idiomatic org way of doing that?
>
> This
>
> #+begin_src emacs-lisp
> (setq org-src-lang-modes
>      (append '(("dot" . graphviz-dot))
>              (delq (assoc "dot" org-src-lang-modes)
>                    org-src-lang-modes)))
> #+end_src
>
> doesn't work if there's already more than one entry for "dot")
>
> Dan

org-src-lang-modes.... I knew I'd seen it somewhere!  Thanks for the tip, Dan.

Chris

Re: Re: [BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[Eric S Fraga]

"Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:

[...]

>
> I also vote for removing the dot and ditaa block types from
> org-exp-blocks, left over from before the existence of begin_src blocks.
> As the original developer of org-exp-blocks, I no longer maintain it in
> favor of focusing on begin_src blocks.
>
> The only downside to removing these block types is breaking existing
> Org-mode files... Perhaps we could add a deprecation warning which will
> appear as a message every time a begin_dot or begin_ditaa blocks is
> evaluate, then after a month or so of warning we can remove those blocks
> entirely.
>
> Thoughts? -- Eric

Completely in favour ...

... so long as the message either provides a clear description of how to
change from =begin_X= to =begin-src X= or gives a link to this clear
description in the manual, say.  I haven't changed the various begin_X
blocks yet because of the uncertainty in the mapping from one to the
other... and because I've been lazy, I guess ;-)


-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1
: using Org-mode version 7.4 (release_7.4.330.g7473e.dirty)

Re: Re: [BABEL] Editing dot blocks with org-exp-blocks

[Eric Schulte]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>>
>> I also vote for removing the dot and ditaa block types from
>> org-exp-blocks, left over from before the existence of begin_src blocks.
>> As the original developer of org-exp-blocks, I no longer maintain it in
>> favor of focusing on begin_src blocks.
>>
>> The only downside to removing these block types is breaking existing
>> Org-mode files... Perhaps we could add a deprecation warning which will
>> appear as a message every time a begin_dot or begin_ditaa blocks is
>> evaluate, then after a month or so of warning we can remove those blocks
>> entirely.
>>
>> Thoughts? -- Eric
>
> Completely in favour ...
>
> ... so long as the message either provides a clear description of how to
> change from =begin_X= to =begin-src X= or gives a link to this clear
> description in the manual, say.  I haven't changed the various begin_X
> blocks yet because of the uncertainty in the mapping from one to the
> other... and because I've been lazy, I guess ;-)

Alright, I've just pushed up such deprecation warnings.  They instruct
the user to switch e.g., begin_dot to begin_src dot.  Hopefully this is
sufficient.  I suppose the responsible thing to do now is to wait
through an entire release cycle, and then two releases from now the
functions can be removed.

Cheers -- Eric