An Org-based productivity tool

An Org-based productivity tool

[Marcin Borkowski]

Hi Orgers,

I am making an Org-mode-based tool to help boost my productivity.

I am constantly fighting a losing battle with distractions.  I figured
out that showing me how much time I spent goofing around would help me
stay on track (being a math geek and a gamer, my "let's break my
yesterday's score" and similar instincts kick in immediately, too).  So
far, I have these in my prototype:

- a notification (recurring every n seconds) that I'm not clocking
  anything,

- some stats about what I spent my time on and what my efficiency (i.e.,
  percentage of time I spent working from the point when I started
  counting to now) is,

- info about how much work I need to do in order to meet my set goal,
  and how much will it take if my efficiency remains constant,

- a warning when my efficiency is lower than a set value, and info about
  how much work I need to do to bump it up to that value.

Here's an example output (with some partially faked data):

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
39min of your workday (10%) has passed, and you have 5h 31min left.

work - 30min spent (12% of your goal of 4h and 75% of your workday so far)
       3h 30min remaining (4h 39min with your current efficiency of 75%).
       You need 9min of uninterrupted work to get back to 80% efficiency.

eating - 4min spent (10% of your workday so far)

bathroom - 2min spent (5% of your workday so far)

unclassified - 0min spent (0% of your workday so far)

Unclocked time so far: 3min.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

My questions are:

- is anyone interested in something like this?

- are there any features you would like to have?  (I have some ideas,
  too.)

- does anyone have an idea of how to /name/ this project?

TIA,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[William Denton]

On 10 October 2018, Marcin Borkowski wrote:

> I am making an Org-mode-based tool to help boost my productivity.
> ...
> - is anyone interested in something like this?

I am---I'd love to see what you come up with.  I'm doing something similar, but 
much less fancy, with clock tables and some R:

https://www.miskatonic.org/2017/11/16/clocktableii/

I need to do one more post about that to wrap it up.  It's working well for me, 
but warnings about not being clocked in to something, and better understanding 
of what I'm doing based on headings or tags, would be useful.

Bill
--
William Denton :: Toronto, Canada   ---   Listening to Art: https://listeningtoart.org/
https://www.miskatonic.org/         ---   GHG.EARTH: http://ghg.earth/
Caveat lector.                      ---   STAPLR: http://staplr.org/

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-10-10, at 18:50, William Denton <wtd@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 10 October 2018, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>
>> I am making an Org-mode-based tool to help boost my productivity.
>> ...
>> - is anyone interested in something like this?
>
> I am---I'd love to see what you come up with.  I'm doing something
> similar, but much less fancy, with clock tables and some R:
>
> https://www.miskatonic.org/2017/11/16/clocktableii/
>
> I need to do one more post about that to wrap it up.  It's working
> well for me, but warnings about not being clocked in to something, and
> better understanding of what I'm doing based on headings or tags,
> would be useful.

Thanks for your kind words!

It's not that fancy (yet?), but has one big advantage over clock tables:
it updates dynamically (using org-clock-out-hook), so it's fast.  Also,
as you could see, it does some simple calculations.

And for the record: it's based on properties, not tags - but that is
a minor issue.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Samuel Wales]

auto-clocking might be interesting.

there would be a concept of a dominating clocking entry similar to
dominating file.  i.e. if where you are is not a clocking entry, go up
until you find one that is.  if you find none at top level, you create
a clock entry in the logbook there.

if you switch buffers or move around, you clock out and in where you
were and are.  every few minutes, you try to clock in where you are,
or the dominating clocking entry.  this is done with timers.  idle
time might go to a special clocking entry.

or something like that.  the idea is that you don't have to remember
to clock in and out.

On 10/10/18, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>
> On 2018-10-10, at 18:50, William Denton <wtd@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10 October 2018, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>
>>> I am making an Org-mode-based tool to help boost my productivity.
>>> ...
>>> - is anyone interested in something like this?
>>
>> I am---I'd love to see what you come up with.  I'm doing something
>> similar, but much less fancy, with clock tables and some R:
>>
>> https://www.miskatonic.org/2017/11/16/clocktableii/
>>
>> I need to do one more post about that to wrap it up.  It's working
>> well for me, but warnings about not being clocked in to something, and
>> better understanding of what I'm doing based on headings or tags,
>> would be useful.
>
> Thanks for your kind words!
>
> It's not that fancy (yet?), but has one big advantage over clock tables:
> it updates dynamically (using org-clock-out-hook), so it's fast.  Also,
> as you could see, it does some simple calculations.
>
> And for the record: it's based on properties, not tags - but that is
> a minor issue.
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Marcin Borkowski
> http://mbork.pl
>
>


-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: <http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com>

The disease DOES progress. MANY people have died from it. And ANYBODY
can get it at any time.

"You’ve really gotta quit this and get moving, because this is murder
by neglect." ---
<http://www.meaction.net/2017/02/03/pwme-people-with-me-are-being-murdered-by-neglect>.

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Roland Everaert]

Regarding auto-clocking, you should look at what norang did.

http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html

To motivate people focusing on there work, something like the link below could be
an idea, especially for gamers ;)

https://habitica.com/static/home

Samuel Wales writes:

> auto-clocking might be interesting.
>
> there would be a concept of a dominating clocking entry similar to
> dominating file.  i.e. if where you are is not a clocking entry, go up
> until you find one that is.  if you find none at top level, you create
> a clock entry in the logbook there.
>
> if you switch buffers or move around, you clock out and in where you
> were and are.  every few minutes, you try to clock in where you are,
> or the dominating clocking entry.  this is done with timers.  idle
> time might go to a special clocking entry.
>
> or something like that.  the idea is that you don't have to remember
> to clock in and out.
>
> On 10/10/18, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>>
>> On 2018-10-10, at 18:50, William Denton <wtd@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10 October 2018, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am making an Org-mode-based tool to help boost my productivity.
>>>> ...
>>>> - is anyone interested in something like this?
>>>
>>> I am---I'd love to see what you come up with.  I'm doing something
>>> similar, but much less fancy, with clock tables and some R:
>>>
>>> https://www.miskatonic.org/2017/11/16/clocktableii/
>>>
>>> I need to do one more post about that to wrap it up.  It's working
>>> well for me, but warnings about not being clocked in to something, and
>>> better understanding of what I'm doing based on headings or tags,
>>> would be useful.
>>
>> Thanks for your kind words!
>>
>> It's not that fancy (yet?), but has one big advantage over clock tables:
>> it updates dynamically (using org-clock-out-hook), so it's fast.  Also,
>> as you could see, it does some simple calculations.
>>
>> And for the record: it's based on properties, not tags - but that is
>> a minor issue.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> --
>> Marcin Borkowski
>> http://mbork.pl
>>
>>


-- 
Luke, use the FOSS

Sent from Emacs

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Ihor Radchenko]

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> To motivate people focusing on there work, something like the link below could be
> an idea, especially for gamers ;)
>
> https://habitica.com/static/home

It would be great to integrate it with Org.


Roland Everaert <reveatwork@gmail.com> writes:

> Regarding auto-clocking, you should look at what norang did.
>
> http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html
>
> To motivate people focusing on there work, something like the link below could be
> an idea, especially for gamers ;)
>
> https://habitica.com/static/home
>
> Samuel Wales writes:
>
>> auto-clocking might be interesting.
>>
>> there would be a concept of a dominating clocking entry similar to
>> dominating file.  i.e. if where you are is not a clocking entry, go up
>> until you find one that is.  if you find none at top level, you create
>> a clock entry in the logbook there.
>>
>> if you switch buffers or move around, you clock out and in where you
>> were and are.  every few minutes, you try to clock in where you are,
>> or the dominating clocking entry.  this is done with timers.  idle
>> time might go to a special clocking entry.
>>
>> or something like that.  the idea is that you don't have to remember
>> to clock in and out.
>>
>> On 10/10/18, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2018-10-10, at 18:50, William Denton <wtd@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10 October 2018, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am making an Org-mode-based tool to help boost my productivity.
>>>>> ...
>>>>> - is anyone interested in something like this?
>>>>
>>>> I am---I'd love to see what you come up with.  I'm doing something
>>>> similar, but much less fancy, with clock tables and some R:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.miskatonic.org/2017/11/16/clocktableii/
>>>>
>>>> I need to do one more post about that to wrap it up.  It's working
>>>> well for me, but warnings about not being clocked in to something, and
>>>> better understanding of what I'm doing based on headings or tags,
>>>> would be useful.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your kind words!
>>>
>>> It's not that fancy (yet?), but has one big advantage over clock tables:
>>> it updates dynamically (using org-clock-out-hook), so it's fast.  Also,
>>> as you could see, it does some simple calculations.
>>>
>>> And for the record: it's based on properties, not tags - but that is
>>> a minor issue.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Marcin Borkowski
>>> http://mbork.pl
>>>
>>>
>
>
> -- 
> Luke, use the FOSS
>
> Sent from Emacs
>

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Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Roland Everaert]

Ihor Radchenko writes:

>> To motivate people focusing on there work, something like the link below could be
>> an idea, especially for gamers ;)
>>
>> https://habitica.com/static/home
>
> It would be great to integrate it with Org.

What do you mean, create an interface to the service or duplicating the
service in Emacs/Org Mode?

>
>
> Roland Everaert <reveatwork@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Regarding auto-clocking, you should look at what norang did.
>>
>> http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html
>>
>> To motivate people focusing on there work, something like the link below could be
>> an idea, especially for gamers ;)
>>
>> https://habitica.com/static/home
>>
>> Samuel Wales writes:
>>
>>> auto-clocking might be interesting.
>>>
>>> there would be a concept of a dominating clocking entry similar to
>>> dominating file.  i.e. if where you are is not a clocking entry, go up
>>> until you find one that is.  if you find none at top level, you create
>>> a clock entry in the logbook there.
>>>
>>> if you switch buffers or move around, you clock out and in where you
>>> were and are.  every few minutes, you try to clock in where you are,
>>> or the dominating clocking entry.  this is done with timers.  idle
>>> time might go to a special clocking entry.
>>>
>>> or something like that.  the idea is that you don't have to remember
>>> to clock in and out.
>>>
>>> On 10/10/18, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 2018-10-10, at 18:50, William Denton <wtd@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10 October 2018, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am making an Org-mode-based tool to help boost my productivity.
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> - is anyone interested in something like this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I am---I'd love to see what you come up with.  I'm doing something
>>>>> similar, but much less fancy, with clock tables and some R:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.miskatonic.org/2017/11/16/clocktableii/
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to do one more post about that to wrap it up.  It's working
>>>>> well for me, but warnings about not being clocked in to something, and
>>>>> better understanding of what I'm doing based on headings or tags,
>>>>> would be useful.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your kind words!
>>>>
>>>> It's not that fancy (yet?), but has one big advantage over clock tables:
>>>> it updates dynamically (using org-clock-out-hook), so it's fast.  Also,
>>>> as you could see, it does some simple calculations.
>>>>
>>>> And for the record: it's based on properties, not tags - but that is
>>>> a minor issue.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Marcin Borkowski
>>>> http://mbork.pl
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Luke, use the FOSS
>>
>> Sent from Emacs
>>


-- 
Luke, use the FOSS

Sent from Emacs

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Ihor Radchenko]

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I mean something like what we have for calendar sync.
The data can be stored/edited both in the service and in relevant org
files. 


Roland Everaert <reveatwork@gmail.com> writes:

> Ihor Radchenko writes:
>
>>> To motivate people focusing on there work, something like the link below could be
>>> an idea, especially for gamers ;)
>>>
>>> https://habitica.com/static/home
>>
>> It would be great to integrate it with Org.
>
> What do you mean, create an interface to the service or duplicating the
> service in Emacs/Org Mode?
>
>>
>>
>> Roland Everaert <reveatwork@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Regarding auto-clocking, you should look at what norang did.
>>>
>>> http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html
>>>
>>> To motivate people focusing on there work, something like the link below could be
>>> an idea, especially for gamers ;)
>>>
>>> https://habitica.com/static/home
>>>
>>> Samuel Wales writes:
>>>
>>>> auto-clocking might be interesting.
>>>>
>>>> there would be a concept of a dominating clocking entry similar to
>>>> dominating file.  i.e. if where you are is not a clocking entry, go up
>>>> until you find one that is.  if you find none at top level, you create
>>>> a clock entry in the logbook there.
>>>>
>>>> if you switch buffers or move around, you clock out and in where you
>>>> were and are.  every few minutes, you try to clock in where you are,
>>>> or the dominating clocking entry.  this is done with timers.  idle
>>>> time might go to a special clocking entry.
>>>>
>>>> or something like that.  the idea is that you don't have to remember
>>>> to clock in and out.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/10/18, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2018-10-10, at 18:50, William Denton <wtd@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10 October 2018, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am making an Org-mode-based tool to help boost my productivity.
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> - is anyone interested in something like this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am---I'd love to see what you come up with.  I'm doing something
>>>>>> similar, but much less fancy, with clock tables and some R:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.miskatonic.org/2017/11/16/clocktableii/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need to do one more post about that to wrap it up.  It's working
>>>>>> well for me, but warnings about not being clocked in to something, and
>>>>>> better understanding of what I'm doing based on headings or tags,
>>>>>> would be useful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your kind words!
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not that fancy (yet?), but has one big advantage over clock tables:
>>>>> it updates dynamically (using org-clock-out-hook), so it's fast.  Also,
>>>>> as you could see, it does some simple calculations.
>>>>>
>>>>> And for the record: it's based on properties, not tags - but that is
>>>>> a minor issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Marcin Borkowski
>>>>> http://mbork.pl
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Luke, use the FOSS
>>>
>>> Sent from Emacs
>>>
>
>
> -- 
> Luke, use the FOSS
>
> Sent from Emacs

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Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Samuel Wales]

On 10/11/18, Roland Everaert <reveatwork@gmail.com> wrote:
> Regarding auto-clocking, you should look at what norang did.
>
> http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html

that does not seem like my proposal.  it seems manual and complex.
i'd never be able to use it.  for a similar reason, i'd never be able
to use gtd.

huge fan of that document though.  :)

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Samuel Wales]

On 10/11/18, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:
> huge fan of that document though.  :)

norang, that is.

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-10-10, at 22:45, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> auto-clocking might be interesting.
>
> there would be a concept of a dominating clocking entry similar to
> dominating file.  i.e. if where you are is not a clocking entry, go up
> until you find one that is.  if you find none at top level, you create
> a clock entry in the logbook there.
>
> if you switch buffers or move around, you clock out and in where you
> were and are.  every few minutes, you try to clock in where you are,
> or the dominating clocking entry.  this is done with timers.  idle
> time might go to a special clocking entry.
>
> or something like that.  the idea is that you don't have to remember
> to clock in and out.

That's an interesting idea I thought about some time ago.

But I decided it's not worth it.  Very complicated and unreliable (I
might have two or more clocking tasks related to the same file, for
example).

It's better to train oneself to remember about clocking, I guess.

(And I have this notification nagging me if I'm not clocking anything
for 2 minutes or more.)

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Samuel Wales]

On 10/14/18, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
> But I decided it's not worth it.  Very complicated and unreliable (I
> might have two or more clocking tasks related to the same file, for
> example).

hm, it doesn't seem so to me.  what do you mean by 2 or more related
to the same file?  a file can have any number of clocking tasks, and
you can manually clock any time you want which would suspend the
automatic clocking until you clock out.  [just sets a variable.]

i guess it's just a matter of taste.  i don't think i will do your
level of clocking unless it is auytomatic.

> > (And I have this notification nagging me if I'm not clocking anything
> for 2 minutes or more.)

i'd get so distracted and thus annoyed by that notificaiton that it
would be nuked into outer space.  :]

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-10-16, at 23:04, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10/14/18, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>> But I decided it's not worth it.  Very complicated and unreliable (I
>> might have two or more clocking tasks related to the same file, for
>> example).
>
> hm, it doesn't seem so to me.  what do you mean by 2 or more related
> to the same file?  a file can have any number of clocking tasks, and
> you can manually clock any time you want which would suspend the
> automatic clocking until you clock out.  [just sets a variable.]
>
> i guess it's just a matter of taste.  i don't think i will do your
> level of clocking unless it is auytomatic.

As I said, it won't/can't work for me.

Assume I have a project with two tasks, A and B.  Assume that the
project consists of many files, among others: main.js, utils.js,
main.css.  Assume that task A involves editing files main.js and
main.css and task B - files main.js and utils.js.

Assuming I'm editing main.js, how can an automatic system (short of an
advanced AI) guess whether to clock A or B?

I found that it is way easier to train myself to clock in (it helps to
have a nice keybinding for that - F10 F10 for clocking in the last task,
F10 i for a classical clock history and F10 c for Counsel-based clock
history.

>> > (And I have this notification nagging me if I'm not clocking anything
>> for 2 minutes or more.)
>
> i'd get so distracted and thus annoyed by that notificaiton that it
> would be nuked into outer space.  :]

The same with me - that's precisely the point.  This nuke is called
`org-clock-in'. ;-)

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Ihor Radchenko]

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Hi,

One suggestion would be to distinguish between different types of work.
For example, you may value more an important project you need to work
on, but do not like, in comparison with another project you really like
doing.
This can be done, for example, by weighting the time spent on
different tasks according to the task urgency/arbitrary multiplier.

A comment on the example output.
Some people (like me) can spend too much time just staring at the kind
of output you provided.
I found it more efficient to have a single number/phrase indication if I
need to work harder or not.
The full output might still be shown to adjust the overall productivity,
but, say, once per day/week.

Best,
Ihor

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> Hi Orgers,
>
> I am making an Org-mode-based tool to help boost my productivity.
>
> I am constantly fighting a losing battle with distractions.  I figured
> out that showing me how much time I spent goofing around would help me
> stay on track (being a math geek and a gamer, my "let's break my
> yesterday's score" and similar instincts kick in immediately, too).  So
> far, I have these in my prototype:
>
> - a notification (recurring every n seconds) that I'm not clocking
>   anything,
>
> - some stats about what I spent my time on and what my efficiency (i.e.,
>   percentage of time I spent working from the point when I started
>   counting to now) is,
>
> - info about how much work I need to do in order to meet my set goal,
>   and how much will it take if my efficiency remains constant,
>
> - a warning when my efficiency is lower than a set value, and info about
>   how much work I need to do to bump it up to that value.
>
> Here's an example output (with some partially faked data):
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> 39min of your workday (10%) has passed, and you have 5h 31min left.
>
> work - 30min spent (12% of your goal of 4h and 75% of your workday so far)
>        3h 30min remaining (4h 39min with your current efficiency of 75%).
>        You need 9min of uninterrupted work to get back to 80% efficiency.
>
> eating - 4min spent (10% of your workday so far)
>
> bathroom - 2min spent (5% of your workday so far)
>
> unclassified - 0min spent (0% of your workday so far)
>
> Unclocked time so far: 3min.
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> My questions are:
>
> - is anyone interested in something like this?
>
> - are there any features you would like to have?  (I have some ideas,
>   too.)
>
> - does anyone have an idea of how to /name/ this project?
>
> TIA,
>
> --
> Marcin Borkowski
> http://mbork.pl
>

-- 
Ihor Radchenko,
PhD Student
Singapore University of Technology and Design,
8 Somapah Road Singapore 487372
Email: yantar92@gmail.com, ihor_radchenko@mymail.sutd.edu.sg
Tel: +6584017977

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Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-10-11, at 10:58, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> One suggestion would be to distinguish between different types of work.
> For example, you may value more an important project you need to work
> on, but do not like, in comparison with another project you really like
> doing.
> This can be done, for example, by weighting the time spent on
> different tasks according to the task urgency/arbitrary multiplier.

I will think about it, thanks!

> A comment on the example output.
> Some people (like me) can spend too much time just staring at the kind
> of output you provided.
> I found it more efficient to have a single number/phrase indication if I
> need to work harder or not.
> The full output might still be shown to adjust the overall productivity,
> but, say, once per day/week.

Good point.  As I said, it is a prototype, and I admit that the output
sucks a lot.  OTOH, I'm somewhat of a gamer, and I like economic,
spreadsheet-y games, so this scratches that itch for me.

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Bingo]

Le 10 octobre 2018 21:45:53 GMT+05:30, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> a écrit :

>
>- a warning when my efficiency is lower than a set value, and info
>about
>  how much work I need to do to bump it up to that value.
>

Nice, but it has an anti-feature.  For procrastinators, warnings frequently have negative effects. It can be understood in multiple ways :

1. "What the hell" effect : As Dr Art Marckman tells in the book "Smart Change" , there is a "what the hell" effect where the victim goofs off even more to the extent of giving up a goal if he realizes that he is falling behind schedule, or has goofed off more than was advisable. The solution is to forgive oneself, and not beat oneself up. This warning looks like beating oneself up.

2. Showing how much work needs to be done to catch up goes against some self improvement philosophies. E.g. dividing work into subtasks helps in not getting overwhelmed by the amount of work.  Or the recommendation to plan breaks in addition to planning to slog, otherwise the plan to slog becomes overwhelming and procrastinators give up.

Of course, if it works for you, go for it.

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Peter Neilson]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 10:03:15 -0400, Bingo <right.ho@gmail.com> wrote:

> Le 10 octobre 2018 21:45:53 GMT+05:30, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>  
> a écrit :
>
>>
>> - a warning when my efficiency is lower than a set value, and info
>> about
>>  how much work I need to do to bump it up to that value.
>>
>
> Nice, but it has an anti-feature.  For procrastinators, warnings  
> frequently have negative effects. It can be understood in multiple ways :
>
> 1. "What the hell" effect : As Dr Art Marckman tells in the book "Smart  
> Change" , there is a "what the hell" effect where the victim goofs off  
> even more to the extent of giving up a goal if he realizes that he is  
> falling behind schedule, or has goofed off more than was advisable. The  
> solution is to forgive oneself, and not beat oneself up. This warning  
> looks like beating oneself up.
>
> 2. Showing how much work needs to be done to catch up goes against some  
> self improvement philosophies. E.g. dividing work into subtasks helps in  
> not getting overwhelmed by the amount of work.  Or the recommendation to  
> plan breaks in addition to planning to slog, otherwise the plan to slog  
> becomes overwhelming and procrastinators give up.
>
> Of course, if it works for you, go for it.

Sabotage of the TODO list ...

Managing the flow of my own work sometimes runs into unintended sabotage,  
perpetrated by others or by me. The offending tasks are often large,  
incapable of division, and not immediately crucial. For example, somewhere  
in the middle of my list of "Get it done some other time, but not now,"  
tasks is this one: "Repair the International 454 tractor."  It rests  
comfortably on that list unless I either (1) need to use that tractor, or  
(2) hear my wife telling me, "Why don't you ever get the 454 running? You  
never get anything done around here! I need to use its bucket, and the  
Mahindra doesn't have one." From that point onward, and my "TODO" thoughts  
about writing, about programming, or about training horses are derailed.  
In case (1) I need to figure out some other approach, like maybe using the  
Mahindra. In case (2) my wife is right--as always--and my tendency is to  
stop doing anything at all.

My org mode TODO list is absolutely no help when I encounter one of these  
show-stoppers. If anything, the list is an additional albatross adding to  
my already encroaching depression.

Maybe I need a brain-wave detector, connecting through emacs-lisp AI code  
to a huge Pomodoro-style graphic display, that will alert me when I am  
goofing off, falling asleep, or practicing mental evasion.

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Ihor Radchenko]

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Well, you could associate a reward to that kind of tasks.
For example, you can allow yourself to work half a day.

Alternatively, you can make a task you would like to do (say, watch a
new movie) to be blocked until the unwanted task is done.

"Peter Neilson" <neilson@windstream.net> writes:

> On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 10:03:15 -0400, Bingo <right.ho@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Le 10 octobre 2018 21:45:53 GMT+05:30, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>  
>> a écrit :
>>
>>>
>>> - a warning when my efficiency is lower than a set value, and info
>>> about
>>>  how much work I need to do to bump it up to that value.
>>>
>>
>> Nice, but it has an anti-feature.  For procrastinators, warnings  
>> frequently have negative effects. It can be understood in multiple ways :
>>
>> 1. "What the hell" effect : As Dr Art Marckman tells in the book "Smart  
>> Change" , there is a "what the hell" effect where the victim goofs off  
>> even more to the extent of giving up a goal if he realizes that he is  
>> falling behind schedule, or has goofed off more than was advisable. The  
>> solution is to forgive oneself, and not beat oneself up. This warning  
>> looks like beating oneself up.
>>
>> 2. Showing how much work needs to be done to catch up goes against some  
>> self improvement philosophies. E.g. dividing work into subtasks helps in  
>> not getting overwhelmed by the amount of work.  Or the recommendation to  
>> plan breaks in addition to planning to slog, otherwise the plan to slog  
>> becomes overwhelming and procrastinators give up.
>>
>> Of course, if it works for you, go for it.
>
> Sabotage of the TODO list ...
>
> Managing the flow of my own work sometimes runs into unintended sabotage,  
> perpetrated by others or by me. The offending tasks are often large,  
> incapable of division, and not immediately crucial. For example, somewhere  
> in the middle of my list of "Get it done some other time, but not now,"  
> tasks is this one: "Repair the International 454 tractor."  It rests  
> comfortably on that list unless I either (1) need to use that tractor, or  
> (2) hear my wife telling me, "Why don't you ever get the 454 running? You  
> never get anything done around here! I need to use its bucket, and the  
> Mahindra doesn't have one." From that point onward, and my "TODO" thoughts  
> about writing, about programming, or about training horses are derailed.  
> In case (1) I need to figure out some other approach, like maybe using the  
> Mahindra. In case (2) my wife is right--as always--and my tendency is to  
> stop doing anything at all.
>
> My org mode TODO list is absolutely no help when I encounter one of these  
> show-stoppers. If anything, the list is an additional albatross adding to  
> my already encroaching depression.
>
> Maybe I need a brain-wave detector, connecting through emacs-lisp AI code  
> to a huge Pomodoro-style graphic display, that will alert me when I am  
> goofing off, falling asleep, or practicing mental evasion.
>

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Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-10-11, at 17:08, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, you could associate a reward to that kind of tasks.
> For example, you can allow yourself to work half a day.
>
> Alternatively, you can make a task you would like to do (say, watch a
> new movie) to be blocked until the unwanted task is done.

Makes me think of this idea:
http://forum.beeminder.com/t/temptation-bundling-for-inbox-beeminding/4331

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-10-11, at 16:57, Peter Neilson <neilson@windstream.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 10:03:15 -0400, Bingo <right.ho@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Le 10 octobre 2018 21:45:53 GMT+05:30, Marcin Borkowski
>> <mbork@mbork.pl> a écrit :
>>
>>>
>>> - a warning when my efficiency is lower than a set value, and info
>>> about
>>>  how much work I need to do to bump it up to that value.
>>>
>>
>> Nice, but it has an anti-feature.  For procrastinators, warnings
>> frequently have negative effects. It can be understood in multiple
>> ways :
>>
>> 1. "What the hell" effect : As Dr Art Marckman tells in the book
>> "Smart Change" , there is a "what the hell" effect where the victim
>> goofs off even more to the extent of giving up a goal if he realizes
>> that he is falling behind schedule, or has goofed off more than was
>> advisable. The solution is to forgive oneself, and not beat oneself
>> up. This warning looks like beating oneself up.
>>
>> 2. Showing how much work needs to be done to catch up goes against
>> some self improvement philosophies. E.g. dividing work into subtasks
>> helps in not getting overwhelmed by the amount of work.  Or the
>> recommendation to plan breaks in addition to planning to slog,
>> otherwise the plan to slog becomes overwhelming and procrastinators
>> give up.
>>
>> Of course, if it works for you, go for it.
>
> Sabotage of the TODO list ...
>
> Managing the flow of my own work sometimes runs into unintended
> sabotage, perpetrated by others or by me. The offending tasks are
> often large, incapable of division, and not immediately crucial. For
> example, somewhere in the middle of my list of "Get it done some other
> time, but not now," tasks is this one: "Repair the International 454
> tractor."  It rests comfortably on that list unless I either (1) need
> to use that tractor, or (2) hear my wife telling me, "Why don't you
> ever get the 454 running? You never get anything done around here!
> I need to use its bucket, and the Mahindra doesn't have one." From
> that point onward, and my "TODO" thoughts about writing, about
> programming, or about training horses are derailed. In case (1) I need
> to figure out some other approach, like maybe using the Mahindra. In
> case (2) my wife is right--as always--and my tendency is to stop doing
> anything at all.
>
> My org mode TODO list is absolutely no help when I encounter one of
> these show-stoppers. If anything, the list is an additional albatross
> adding to my already encroaching depression.

Have you heard about Beeminder?  (Note: I'm a user, but I have no
financial interest in recommending them.  Also, I made an Emacs/Org-mode
client for their software.)

It is my primary way of staying on track with my TODOs.  This tool is
just a helper.

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[stardiviner]

Peter Neilson <neilson@windstream.net> writes:

> Maybe I need a brain-wave detector, connecting through emacs-lisp AI code to a huge
> Pomodoro-style graphic display, that will alert me when I am goofing off, falling asleep,
> or practicing mental evasion.

This is what I want too. I'd like to see one day this is implemented.

-- 
[ stardiviner ]
       I try to make every word tell the meaning what I want to express.
       Blog: https://stardiviner.github.io/
       IRC(freenode): stardiviner
       GPG: F09F650D7D674819892591401B5DF1C95AE89AC3
      

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Samuel Wales]

i am still confused why timers can't poll every few minutes and clock
to the dominating task that has a clock drawer.


On 10/27/18, stardiviner <numbchild@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Peter Neilson <neilson@windstream.net> writes:
>
>> Maybe I need a brain-wave detector, connecting through emacs-lisp AI code
>> to a huge
>> Pomodoro-style graphic display, that will alert me when I am goofing off,
>> falling asleep,
>> or practicing mental evasion.
>
> This is what I want too. I'd like to see one day this is implemented.
>
> --
> [ stardiviner ]
>        I try to make every word tell the meaning what I want to express.
>        Blog: https://stardiviner.github.io/
>        IRC(freenode): stardiviner
>        GPG: F09F650D7D674819892591401B5DF1C95AE89AC3
>
>
>


-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: <http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com>

The disease DOES progress. MANY people have died from it. And ANYBODY
can get it at any time.

"You’ve really gotta quit this and get moving, because this is murder
by neglect." ---
<http://www.meaction.net/2017/02/03/pwme-people-with-me-are-being-murdered-by-neglect>.

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-10-28, at 02:24, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> i am still confused why timers can't poll every few minutes and clock
> to the dominating task that has a clock drawer.

As I hinted in my previous message, this is easy to do and possible, but
/only/ under the assumption that you do the majority of your work in Org
files.  In my case, such a system is completely impossible.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Samuel Wales]

On 10/29/18, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
> On 2018-10-28, at 02:24, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> i am still confused why timers can't poll every few minutes and clock
>> to the dominating task that has a clock drawer.
>
> As I hinted in my previous message, this is easy to do and possible, but
> /only/ under the assumption that you do the majority of your work in Org
> files.  In my case, such a system is completely impossible.

ok.

would be perfect for me though.  i don't care about getting fancy.
somewhat surprised nobody tried it.

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-10-11, at 16:03, Bingo <right.ho@gmail.com> wrote:

> Le 10 octobre 2018 21:45:53 GMT+05:30, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> a écrit :
>
>>
>>- a warning when my efficiency is lower than a set value, and info
>>about
>>  how much work I need to do to bump it up to that value.
>>
>
> Nice, but it has an anti-feature.  For procrastinators, warnings frequently have negative effects. It can be understood in multiple ways :
>
> 1. "What the hell" effect : As Dr Art Marckman tells in the book "Smart Change" , there is a "what the hell" effect where the victim goofs off even more to the extent of giving up a goal if he realizes that he is falling behind schedule, or has goofed off more than was advisable. The solution is to forgive oneself, and not beat oneself up. This warning looks like beating oneself up.
>
> 2. Showing how much work needs to be done to catch up goes against some self improvement philosophies. E.g. dividing work into subtasks helps in not getting overwhelmed by the amount of work.  Or the recommendation to plan breaks in addition to planning to slog, otherwise the plan to slog becomes overwhelming and procrastinators give up.
>
> Of course, if it works for you, go for it.

Fair enough.

It seems I was not clear enough.  The detailed report on my work on this
day is one thing I only trigger manually.  The notification about me not
clocking anything says just "You have had no active clock for %d
minutes!".

Also, I have other devices in place to keep me on track.  The thing is,
they are day-based, and I felt that I need a bit more granularity.

Also, I understand that forgiving instead of beating oneself off is
important, and I do it when needed.  (I can always reduce the "amount of
work to do" manually, though I don't yet have any good UI for that.)

So you're right, but I think I do take into consideration.

And remember that this is an early prototype, also in terms of whether
it works for me or not.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Adam Porter]

Hi Marcin,

That sounds very geekily interesting.  :)  I imagine Sacha Chua might be
interested as well, although she already has a sophisticated system for
her Quantified Life stuff.

I'd be interested in looking at your code.  For several years I've used
a "pomodoro"-like shell script to help stay on-task.  It would be nice
to do it in Org instead (I know about org-pomodoro, but it doesn't do as
much as my script does).

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Sacha Chua]

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Thanks for bringing me into the conversation! :) I'm sooooo far from that
sort of thing right now. Rough activity tracking by buttons and voice
shortcuts on my phone is all I can manage with a toddler around.

Marcin, I wonder if you might like to adapt some code from
sachachua.com/dotemacs for clocking into a task by taking advantage of the
org refiling system, and the idea of setting up a hydra or other shortcuts
for common tasks. The code might need to be updated, not sure. If you're
using Org and another time tracking system that might have better reports,
you might like to set up something like what I have, where I can use a
single key to clock into both Org and Quantified Awesome with a pre-defined
or prompted category.

I find time analysis useful for things like calibrating my estimates and
expectations, learning about my revealed preferences and trends over time,
and feeling more satisfied about my days/weeks/months. I liked using the
data to build on my strengths and work around my limits instead of giving
in to the temptation to use it as a harsh taskmaster. :) I wonder if
something similar might be helpful for you.

Have fun!

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 16:42 Adam Porter, <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote:

> Hi Marcin,
>
> That sounds very geekily interesting.  :)  I imagine Sacha Chua might be
> interested as well, although she already has a sophisticated system for
> her Quantified Life stuff.
>
> I'd be interested in looking at your code.  For several years I've used
> a "pomodoro"-like shell script to help stay on-task.  It would be nice
> to do it in Org instead (I know about org-pomodoro, but it doesn't do as
> much as my script does).
>
>
>

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Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[stardiviner]

Sacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com> writes:

> I find time analysis useful for things like calibrating my estimates and expectations,
> learning about my revealed preferences and trends over time, and feeling more satisfied
> about my days/weeks/months. I liked using the data to build on my strengths and work
> around my limits instead of giving in to the temptation to use it as a harsh taskmaster.
> :) I wonder if something similar might be helpful for you.

I agree on this point that should be a harsh taskmaster if I understand it correctly. After I spent lot of time on configuring Emacs and Org Mode to fit what I want, then I reduce my setup to small again. I found it's time to keep it simple and clean now. Currently I only use Org Agenda and org clock to record all my activities.

-- 
[ stardiviner ]
       I try to make every word tell the meaning what I want to express.
       Blog: https://stardiviner.github.io/
       IRC(freenode): stardiviner
       GPG: F09F650D7D674819892591401B5DF1C95AE89AC3
      

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-10-16, at 23:43, Sacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com> wrote:

> Thanks for bringing me into the conversation! :) I'm sooooo far from that
> sort of thing right now. Rough activity tracking by buttons and voice
> shortcuts on my phone is all I can manage with a toddler around.

I can imagine, I have a 2-year-old son.  Working near to him is next to
impossible (though if my wife or his 8-year-old sister is around, it
might be accomplished).  This project is meant for when I'm at work,
I don't even try (nor want) to use it at home.

> Marcin, I wonder if you might like to adapt some code from
> sachachua.com/dotemacs for clocking into a task by taking advantage of the
> org refiling system, and the idea of setting up a hydra or other shortcuts
> for common tasks. The code might need to be updated, not sure. If you're

Well, I think I have something even better -
https://github.com/akirak/counsel-org-clock (I find Counsel/Ivy
interface much superior to the default refiling one).  I have my
org-clock-history-length set to 144, and I populate it on Emacs start
with org-mru-clock.  Also, I have a 10-head hydra for Org-related stuff
(8 heads are related to clocking).

> using Org and another time tracking system that might have better reports,
> you might like to set up something like what I have, where I can use a
> single key to clock into both Org and Quantified Awesome with a pre-defined
> or prompted category.

For the purposes of my work, I have written a simple Toggl integration.
I also think about writing some stuff to generate nice reports within
Emacs.

> I find time analysis useful for things like calibrating my estimates and
> expectations, learning about my revealed preferences and trends over time,
> and feeling more satisfied about my days/weeks/months. I liked using the
> data to build on my strengths and work around my limits instead of giving
> in to the temptation to use it as a harsh taskmaster. :) I wonder if
> something similar might be helpful for you.

Definitely!  As of now, the main use is to make sure I don't get
distracted too much at work so that I can actually make ends meet (I'm
paid by an hour), so this is a crucial part of my work infrastructure.
Also, this means it /must/ be a harsh taskmaster (at least for some
time).

Doing some QS-y stuff would be nice, but this is not the priority now.

> Have fun!

I do, thanks!

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Sacha Chua]

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On Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 05:19 Marcin Borkowski, <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:

>
> Well, I think I have something even better -
> https://github.com/akirak/counsel-org-clock (I find Counsel/Ivy
> interface much superior to the default refiling one).  I have my
>

Oh, I should switch to that! Thanks for the recommendation.

Definitely!  As of now, the main use is to make sure I don't get
> distracted too much at work so that I can actually make ends meet (I'm
> paid by an hour), so this is a crucial part of my work infrastructure.
> Also, this means it /must/ be a harsh taskmaster (at least for some
> time).
>

I remember liking the combination of org-capture (for ideas and tasks that
might otherwise interrupt my flow), effort estimates, looking at the
current clocked task in the modeline, and making myself take notes along
the way using org-babel. You probably already have a more sophisticated
workflow, but in case any of those habits could use practising or tweaking,
maybe that could help.

I wonder if it makes sense to set up pomodoros, so you have the time
structure to accommodate interruptions/distractions as well as a regular
reminder to check if you're still on-task.

I look forward to reading your usual awesome blog post about whatever
workflow you figure out! :)

Sacha

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Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-10-29, at 13:31, Sacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 05:19 Marcin Borkowski, <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, I think I have something even better -
>> https://github.com/akirak/counsel-org-clock (I find Counsel/Ivy
>> interface much superior to the default refiling one).  I have my
>
> Oh, I should switch to that! Thanks for the recommendation.

You're welcome!

> Definitely!  As of now, the main use is to make sure I don't get
>> distracted too much at work so that I can actually make ends meet (I'm
>> paid by an hour), so this is a crucial part of my work infrastructure.
>> Also, this means it /must/ be a harsh taskmaster (at least for some
>> time).
>
> I remember liking the combination of org-capture (for ideas and tasks that
> might otherwise interrupt my flow), effort estimates, looking at the

I don't use effort estimates.  I'll try them one day.

> current clocked task in the modeline, and making myself take notes
> along

As for the clocked task in the modeline, I have a command to switch
between various settings - basically "all", "today" and "this clock".
Quite useful (from time to time).

> the way using org-babel. You probably already have a more sophisticated
> workflow, but in case any of those habits could use practising or tweaking,
> maybe that could help.

Thanks!

> I wonder if it makes sense to set up pomodoros, so you have the time
> structure to accommodate interruptions/distractions as well as a regular
> reminder to check if you're still on-task.

This is a very good idea.  I was thinking about it, but I have yet to
find a way to incorporate that into my workflow.

> I look forward to reading your usual awesome blog post about whatever
> workflow you figure out! :)

Thanks, now I feel quite obliged to describe it in detail! :-)

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Ihor Radchenko]

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FYI

"Note taker and org-clock-in enforcer"
https://github.com/roman/clocker.el

Best,
Ihor

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> Hi Orgers,
>
> I am making an Org-mode-based tool to help boost my productivity.
>
> I am constantly fighting a losing battle with distractions.  I figured
> out that showing me how much time I spent goofing around would help me
> stay on track (being a math geek and a gamer, my "let's break my
> yesterday's score" and similar instincts kick in immediately, too).  So
> far, I have these in my prototype:
>
> - a notification (recurring every n seconds) that I'm not clocking
>   anything,
>
> - some stats about what I spent my time on and what my efficiency (i.e.,
>   percentage of time I spent working from the point when I started
>   counting to now) is,
>
> - info about how much work I need to do in order to meet my set goal,
>   and how much will it take if my efficiency remains constant,
>
> - a warning when my efficiency is lower than a set value, and info about
>   how much work I need to do to bump it up to that value.
>
> Here's an example output (with some partially faked data):
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> 39min of your workday (10%) has passed, and you have 5h 31min left.
>
> work - 30min spent (12% of your goal of 4h and 75% of your workday so far)
>        3h 30min remaining (4h 39min with your current efficiency of 75%).
>        You need 9min of uninterrupted work to get back to 80% efficiency.
>
> eating - 4min spent (10% of your workday so far)
>
> bathroom - 2min spent (5% of your workday so far)
>
> unclassified - 0min spent (0% of your workday so far)
>
> Unclocked time so far: 3min.
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> My questions are:
>
> - is anyone interested in something like this?
>
> - are there any features you would like to have?  (I have some ideas,
>   too.)
>
> - does anyone have an idea of how to /name/ this project?
>
> TIA,
>
> --
> Marcin Borkowski
> http://mbork.pl
>

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Re: An Org-based productivity tool

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2018-10-25, at 11:45, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> wrote:

> FYI
>
> "Note taker and org-clock-in enforcer"
> https://github.com/roman/clocker.el

Thanks!

Interesting, solving a similar problem and /very/ specific (almost to
the point of "useless for anyone but the author", I guess).

I guess almost the same can be said about my project, too. ;-)

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl