orgmode.org setup

orgmode.org setup

[Bastien]

Dear all,

I would like to briefly expose how things work for orgmode.org.

https://orgmode.org/worg/ is populated by .org pages from the Worg
repo after each push: https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg

Worg is maintained by Krupal and Corwin Brust.  Anyone is welcome to
contribute: https://orgmode.org/worg/worg-about.html

https://orgmode.org is populated by .org pages from the orgweb repo
after each push: https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/orgweb

So far, only Timothy, Nicolas and me do have write access, these pages
are not supposed to be updated very often. The Org maintainer needs to
update the orgweb/Changes.org page for each release.

https://orgmode.org/elpa/ is here for backward compatibility and will
be removed before the release of Org 9.6.

The https://orgmode.org contents are hosted on my machine.

https://updates.orgmode.org is also hosted on my machine.  I plan to
work on improving Woof! in the next months to make it more stable and
(hopefully) usable and useful, but it helps a lot already.

https://list.orgmode.org is the public-inbox archive of the mailing
list.  It's hosted and maintained by Kyle.  The mailing list archives
are also here: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/

https://stats.orgmode.org was used to provide some stats about
orgmode.org visitors via a Fathom instance, but it is gone.  Here is
the interesting bit: there are ~30K visitors by month.  AFAIK, this
number as been remarkably stable for the last ten years.

https://code.orgmode.org is gone: it was nice testing Gogs, which
served us well for very long, but was not necessary anymore.  Also,
using Gogs required some maintainance (spamalot) and led newcomers to
believe they had to create an account on it to contribute, whereas we
prefer to receive/read/review patches on the mailing list.  Relying
on https://git.savannah.gnu.org is the way to go.

Publishing Worg pages used to involve scripts on the server that we
don't need anymore: the HTML page are generated by a SourceHut build
and sent to the server.  Same for orgweb.

Releasing Org also used to require actions on the server: it does not
anymore.  Releasing Org only requires to update the "Version:" header,
which triggers the release of the GNU ELPA package, which is now the
preferred way of installing the last stable Org version.

This setup makes many things a lot easier!

- I'm really glad Kyle maintains list.orgmode.org: it's really cool
  and useful, searching the list archives is lightening fast.

- Migrating the contents served by orgmode.org is just a matter of
  rsync'ing to another server.

- No need to maintain the Gogs instance and the Fathom instance.

- Releasing is now a breeze.

Enjoy!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: orgmode.org setup

[Samuel Banya]

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Hey there, 

Thanks for the breakdown for all of this.

I'm a long time user of Org Mode in my every day work as a Technical Support Engineer with the past two jobs I've had, so its awesome how easy it is to possibly contribute to it, as I really really really do think Org Mode and Emacs are awesome.

Thanks for this, will see how I can help as I would love to improve my Elisp skills a bit.

I'll look to see if there are low-hanging fruit type issues that are easy to modify first on the Sourcehut repo.

Thanks,

Sam

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021, at 4:18 PM, Bastien wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I would like to briefly expose how things work for orgmode.org.
> 
> https://orgmode.org/worg/ is populated by .org pages from the Worg
> repo after each push: https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg
> 
> Worg is maintained by Krupal and Corwin Brust.  Anyone is welcome to
> contribute: https://orgmode.org/worg/worg-about.html
> 
> https://orgmode.org is populated by .org pages from the orgweb repo
> after each push: https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/orgweb
> 
> So far, only Timothy, Nicolas and me do have write access, these pages
> are not supposed to be updated very often. The Org maintainer needs to
> update the orgweb/Changes.org page for each release.
> 
> https://orgmode.org/elpa/ is here for backward compatibility and will
> be removed before the release of Org 9.6.
> 
> The https://orgmode.org contents are hosted on my machine.
> 
> https://updates.orgmode.org is also hosted on my machine.  I plan to
> work on improving Woof! in the next months to make it more stable and
> (hopefully) usable and useful, but it helps a lot already.
> 
> https://list.orgmode.org is the public-inbox archive of the mailing
> list.  It's hosted and maintained by Kyle.  The mailing list archives
> are also here: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/
> 
> https://stats.orgmode.org was used to provide some stats about
> orgmode.org visitors via a Fathom instance, but it is gone.  Here is
> the interesting bit: there are ~30K visitors by month.  AFAIK, this
> number as been remarkably stable for the last ten years.
> 
> https://code.orgmode.org is gone: it was nice testing Gogs, which
> served us well for very long, but was not necessary anymore.  Also,
> using Gogs required some maintainance (spamalot) and led newcomers to
> believe they had to create an account on it to contribute, whereas we
> prefer to receive/read/review patches on the mailing list.  Relying
> on https://git.savannah.gnu.org is the way to go.
> 
> Publishing Worg pages used to involve scripts on the server that we
> don't need anymore: the HTML page are generated by a SourceHut build
> and sent to the server.  Same for orgweb.
> 
> Releasing Org also used to require actions on the server: it does not
> anymore.  Releasing Org only requires to update the "Version:" header,
> which triggers the release of the GNU ELPA package, which is now the
> preferred way of installing the last stable Org version.
> 
> This setup makes many things a lot easier!
> 
> - I'm really glad Kyle maintains list.orgmode.org: it's really cool
>   and useful, searching the list archives is lightening fast.
> 
> - Migrating the contents served by orgmode.org is just a matter of
>   rsync'ing to another server.
> 
> - No need to maintain the Gogs instance and the Fathom instance.
> 
> - Releasing is now a breeze.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> -- 
> Bastien
> 
> 

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Re: orgmode.org setup

[Bastien]

Hi Samuel,

"Samuel Banya" <sbanya@fastmail.com> writes:

> Thanks for this, will see how I can help as I would love to improve
> my Elisp skills a bit.

Go wild!

> I'll look to see if there are low-hanging fruit type issues that are
> easy to modify first on the Sourcehut repo.

SourceHut is for Worg, the collaborative documentation, and it is like
the Eden of "low-hanging fruit": many things are outdated, we always
need more tutorials, etc.  Don't hesitate to ask Krupal or Corwin for
directions on where to start.

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: orgmode.org setup

[Russell Adams]

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:18:02PM +0200, Bastien wrote:
> https://orgmode.org/worg/ is populated by .org pages from the Worg
> repo after each push: https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg
>
> Worg is maintained by Krupal and Corwin Brust.  Anyone is welcome to
> contribute: https://orgmode.org/worg/worg-about.html

I had commit access to Worg previously, and wanted to confirm I can
use it again.

I've ensured I have an account on sr.ht, but where can you request
access?

https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg shows only summary, tree, log, and refs
even though I'm logged in.

What's the correct way for myself and others to request access?

Thanks.

------------------------------------------------------------------
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PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/

Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3

Re: orgmode.org setup

[Bastien]

Hi Russell,

Russell Adams <RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.Com> writes:

> What's the correct way for myself and others to request access?

By sending an email to bzg@gnu.org telling me what username to add.

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: orgmode.org setup

[Greg Minshall]

Bastien,

thanks very much for all of this information.

> I plan to work on improving Woof! in the next months to make it more
> stable and (hopefully) usable and useful, but it helps a lot already.

if Woof! is even part of how you have managed to keep track, and manage,
the myriad of mailing list requests, it's already more valuable than its
weight in whatever measure.  watching over the last couple of weeks as
you've wrangled through the set of issues has been awe-inspiring.

> https://list.orgmode.org is the public-inbox archive of the mailing
> list.  It's hosted and maintained by Kyle.  The mailing list archives
> are also here: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/

i love the searching on list.orgmode.org, but i have this recurrent
dream: that some day each e-mail message will come with a header listing
the URL for that message on https://list.orgmode.org.  (though i also
worry this might open us up to some sort of spam, or other, attack?)

and, i'll add my thanks and congratulations on 9.5!

cheers, Greg

Re: Grabbing the link to a message on the archive

[Timothy]

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Hi Greg,

> i love the searching on list.orgmode.org, but i have this recurrent
> dream: that some day each e-mail message will come with a header listing
> the URL for that message on <https://list.orgmode.org>.  (though i also
> worry this might open us up to some sort of spam, or other, attack?)
>
> and, i’ll add my thanks and congratulations on 9.5!
>
> cheers, Greg

If you use mu4e, the following may be of some interest:
┌────
│ (defun +mu4e-ml-message-link (msg)
│   (cond
│    ((string= "emacs-orgmode.gnu.org" (mu4e-message-field msg :mailing-list))
│     (message "Link %s copied to clipboard" (gui-select-text (format "https://list.orgmode.org/%s" (mu4e-message-field msg :message-id)))))
│    (t (user-error "Mailing list %s not supported" (mu4e-message-field msg :mailing-list)))))
│ (add-to-list 'mu4e-view-actions (cons "link to message ML" #'+mu4e-ml-message-link t))
└────

I expect this could be adapted to other clients (notmuch, gnus, etc.)
without much trouble :)

All the best,
Timothy

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Hi Greg,

> i love the searching on list.orgmode.org, but i have this recurrent
> dream: that some day each e-mail message will come with a header listing
> the URL for that message on https://list.orgmode.org.  (though i also
> worry this might open us up to some sort of spam, or other, attack?)
>
> and, i'll add my thanks and congratulations on 9.5!
>
> cheers, Greg

If you use mu4e, the following may be of some interest:
#+begin_src elisp
(defun +mu4e-ml-message-link (msg)
  (cond
   ((string= "emacs-orgmode.gnu.org" (mu4e-message-field msg :mailing-list))
    (message "Link %s copied to clipboard" (gui-select-text (format "https://list.orgmode.org/%s" (mu4e-message-field msg :message-id)))))
   (t (user-error "Mailing list %s not supported" (mu4e-message-field msg :mailing-list)))))
(add-to-list 'mu4e-view-actions (cons "link to message ML" #'+mu4e-ml-message-link t))
#+end_src

I expect this could be adapted to other clients (notmuch, gnus, etc.)
without much trouble :)

#+begin_signature
All the best,\\
@@html:<b>@@Timothy@@html:</b>@@
#+end_signature

Re: Grabbing the link to a message on the archive

[Greg Minshall]

Timothy,

> If you use mu4e, the following may be of some interest:
> ┌────
> │ (defun +mu4e-ml-message-link (msg)
> │   (cond
> │    ((string= "emacs-orgmode.gnu.org" (mu4e-message-field msg :mailing-list))
> │     (message "Link %s copied to clipboard" (gui-select-text (format "https://list.orgmode.org/%s" (mu4e-message-field msg :message-id)))))
> │    (t (user-error "Mailing list %s not supported" (mu4e-message-field msg :mailing-list)))))
> │ (add-to-list 'mu4e-view-actions (cons "link to message ML" #'+mu4e-ml-message-link t))
> └────

awesome!  i didn't realize that the Message-ID was the key to the
specific e-mail at list.orgmode.org!

cheers, Greg

Re: Grabbing the link to a message on the archive

[Max Nikulin]

On 30/09/2021 12:18, Timothy wrote:
> Hi Greg,
> 
>> i love the searching on list.orgmode.org, but i have this recurrent
>> dream: that some day each e-mail message will come with a header listing
>> the URL for that message on <https://list.orgmode.org>.  (though i also
>> worry this might open us up to some sort of spam, or other, attack?)
>>
>> and, i’ll add my thanks and congratulations on 9.5!
>>
>> cheers, Greg
> 
> If you use mu4e, the following may be of some interest:
> ┌────
> │ (defun +mu4e-ml-message-link (msg)
> │   (cond
> │    ((string= "emacs-orgmode.gnu.org" (mu4e-message-field msg :mailing-list))
> │     (message "Link %s copied to clipboard" (gui-select-text (format "https://list.orgmode.org/%s" (mu4e-message-field msg :message-id)))))
> │    (t (user-error "Mailing list %s not supported" (mu4e-message-field msg :mailing-list)))))
> │ (add-to-list 'mu4e-view-actions (cons "link to message ML" #'+mu4e-ml-message-link t))
> └────
> 
> I expect this could be adapted to other clients (notmuch, gnus, etc.)
> without much trouble :)

lists.gnu.org allows to map Message-ID to URL as well:

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=%2Bmessage-id%3A87tuolhyl7.fsf%40posteo.net&idxname=emacs-orgmode

Unfortunately I have no idea how to get Message-ID having a link to 
particular message on lists.gnu.org without search by e.g. subject and 
author.

I had an impression that mailman mangles links like
https://list.orgmode.org/87tuolhyl7.fsf@posteo.net
since they resemble email addresses, so should be protected from 
spammers. I do not have links to prove it for mailman but debbugs 
certainly does it. In this sense links to lists.gnu.org are safer:
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2021-04/msg00133.html
A cheat for debbugs maybe the following: replace "@" to "%40" 
https://list.orgmode.org/87tuolhyl7.fsf%40posteo.net/T/#u
(Message that I used in these examples: Juan Manuel Macías. [tip] search 
this mailing list with helm-surfraw. 2021-04-05  9:25 UTC)

list.orgmode.org (public inbox) is an ordinary subscriber just as you, 
so it can not add any link to messages delivered to you. There is a 
dedicated header Archived-At that mail list may add, unfortunately 
mailman does not know URL at the time of message processing, so it adds 
only a link to whole archive as List-Archive.

https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/handlers/docs/rfc-2369.html#archive-headers

Curiously news.gmane.io still adds Archived-At despite web interface was 
disabled years ago.

Re: Grabbing the link to a message on the archive

[Greg Minshall]

Max,

yeah, interesting -- thanks for the elaboration/exploration!

cheers, Greg

Re: Grabbing the link to a message on the archive

[Ihor Radchenko]

Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:

> Unfortunately I have no idea how to get Message-ID having a link to 
> particular message on lists.gnu.org without search by e.g. subject and 
> author.

It can be parsed from the html.  Something like below (it is my
home-made parser, but I think the idea should be clear):

(org-capture-ref-set-bibtex-field :key (org-capture-ref-query-dom :tag 'form :tag 'input :attr '(name . "d") :attr 'value))


Best,
Ihor

Re: Grabbing the link to a message on the archive

[Max Nikulin]

On 02/10/2021 21:26, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> Max Nikulin writes:
> 
>> Unfortunately I have no idea how to get Message-ID having a link to
>> particular message on lists.gnu.org without search by e.g. subject and
>> author.
> 
> It can be parsed from the html.  Something like below (it is my
> home-made parser, but I think the idea should be clear):
> 
> (org-capture-ref-set-bibtex-field :key (org-capture-ref-query-dom :tag 'form :tag 'input :attr '(name . "d") :attr 'value))

Thank you, Ihor. I did not expect such funny form of obfuscation. Since 
even author names are hidden in search results, I believed that 
message-id should be considered even more confidential to put it into 
page code.

Re: Grabbing the link to a message on the archive

[Kyle Meyer]

Max Nikulin writes:

> On 02/10/2021 21:26, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
[...]
>> It can be parsed from the html.  Something like below (it is my
>> home-made parser, but I think the idea should be clear):
>> 
>> (org-capture-ref-set-bibtex-field :key (org-capture-ref-query-dom :tag 'form :tag 'input :attr '(name . "d") :attr 'value))
>
> Thank you, Ihor. I did not expect such funny form of obfuscation. Since 
> even author names are hidden in search results, I believed that 
> message-id should be considered even more confidential to put it into 
> page code.

Any obfuscation presented by https://lists.gnu.org is misleading.  Bots
don't have any issue getting addresses from that domain:

  curl -fSsL https://lists.gnu.org/archive/mbox/emacs-orgmode/2021-09

Re: Grabbing the link to a message on the archive

[Jorge P. de Morais Neto]

Hi Timothy,

Em [2021-09-30 qui 13:18:44+0800], Timothy escreveu:

> If you use mu4e, the following may be of some interest:
> ┌────
> │ (defun +mu4e-ml-message-link (msg)
> │   (cond
> │    ((string= "emacs-orgmode.gnu.org" (mu4e-message-field msg :mailing-list))
> │     (message "Link %s copied to clipboard" (gui-select-text (format "https://list.orgmode.org/%s" (mu4e-message-field msg :message-id)))))
> │    (t (user-error "Mailing list %s not supported" (mu4e-message-field msg :mailing-list)))))
> │ (add-to-list 'mu4e-view-actions (cons "link to message ML" #'+mu4e-ml-message-link t))
> └────

In this snippet you call ~cond~ with three arguments, but it takes only
two.

Regards

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Re: Grabbing the link to a message on the archive

[Jorge P. de Morais Neto]

Hi

Em [2021-10-03 dom 21:20:12-0300], Jorge P. de Morais Neto escreveu:

> In this snippet you call ~cond~ with three arguments, but it takes only
> two.

I meant ~cons~, not ~cond~.

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