Possible feature request (but more of a request for comment/opinion)

Possible feature request (but more of a request for comment/opinion)

[Emil Vatai]

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I got encouraged on the IRC channel to write about my ambitions here.

So I have a web page generated by org-mode which has a fancy quote at the
beginning, generated by #+BEGIN/END_QUOTE of course... and the
signature/citation/reference at the end seemed off so I googled "html
blockquote" and apparently the proper way to use it [1] is to have a <cite>
tag after the <blockquote> tag. So I thought, this can't be so hard...
let's do it... a few copy/pastes and search-and-replaces later... I
realized that the #+BEGIN/END_QUOTE block is processed not just by ox-html
but also buy the other backends... so to make things nice, I'd need to
implement the same thing in them as well... which might not be a meaningful
thing to do.

I just had that urge that "wow, I want to contribute to that cool project
(org-mode) which I use so much"... but it's not something what I thing
should be extra useful. It can be done without adding a CITE block to the
html export backend. I need it only in one place - so probably not worth it.

But still, any opinion on this? (I got really good encouragement on IRC to
write here)

Best,
Emil

[1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/blockquote

-- 
Emil Vatai

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Re: Possible feature request (but more of a request for comment/opinion)

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Emil Vatai <emil.vatai@gmail.com> writes:

> So I have a web page generated by org-mode which has a fancy quote at the
> beginning, generated by #+BEGIN/END_QUOTE of course... and the
> signature/citation/reference at the end seemed off so I googled "html
> blockquote" and apparently the proper way to use it [1] is to have a <cite>
> tag after the <blockquote> tag. So I thought, this can't be so hard...
> let's do it... a few copy/pastes and search-and-replaces later... I
> realized that the #+BEGIN/END_QUOTE block is processed not just by ox-html
> but also buy the other backends... so to make things nice, I'd need to
> implement the same thing in them as well... which might not be a meaningful
> thing to do.

Could you be a bit more explicit about what you want to do, possibly
giving an example?

> I just had that urge that "wow, I want to contribute to that cool project
> (org-mode) which I use so much"... but it's not something what I thing
> should be extra useful. It can be done without adding a CITE block to the
> html export backend. I need it only in one place - so probably not worth it.
>
> But still, any opinion on this? (I got really good encouragement on IRC to
> write here)

You can add a feature per export back-end, using, e.g., "ATTR_HTML"
keyword:

    #+attr_html: :cite The source
    #+begin_quote
    ...
    #+end_quote

For example, ox-texinfo supports :author for quotes:

    #+attr_texinfo: :author ...
    #+begin_quote
    ...
    #+end_quote

See `org-texinfo-quote-block' for details.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Possible feature request (but more of a request for comment/opinion)

[Emil Vatai]

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Dear Nicolas,

Thank you for the quick response.

According to the developer.mozilla.org link, a quote and a citation should
look like this:

   <blockquote cite="https://www.huxley.net/bnw/four.html">
       <p>Words can be like X-rays, if you use them properly – they'll go
through anything. You read and you're pierced.</p>
   </blockquote>
   <cite>– Aldous Huxley, Brave New World</cite>

The quote part is straightforward in org-mode:

    #+attr_html: :cite https://www.huxley.net/bnw/four.html
    #+begin_quote
    Words can be like X-rays, if you use them properly – they'll go through
anything. You read and you're pierced.
    #+end_quote

But what to do with the:
  <cite>– Aldous Huxley, Brave New World</cite>
part?

So I was (for a brief moment) motivated to implement #BEGIN/END_CITE for
org-mode, but now it doesn't seem to make much sense to do so. I can
implement it simply by adding an export html block (for the one situation I
need it).

Hopefully this example clarifies what my question is about.

Regards,
Emil

On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 6:38 PM Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Emil Vatai <emil.vatai@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > So I have a web page generated by org-mode which has a fancy quote at the
> > beginning, generated by #+BEGIN/END_QUOTE of course... and the
> > signature/citation/reference at the end seemed off so I googled "html
> > blockquote" and apparently the proper way to use it [1] is to have a
> <cite>
> > tag after the <blockquote> tag. So I thought, this can't be so hard...
> > let's do it... a few copy/pastes and search-and-replaces later... I
> > realized that the #+BEGIN/END_QUOTE block is processed not just by
> ox-html
> > but also buy the other backends... so to make things nice, I'd need to
> > implement the same thing in them as well... which might not be a
> meaningful
> > thing to do.
>
> Could you be a bit more explicit about what you want to do, possibly
> giving an example?
>
> > I just had that urge that "wow, I want to contribute to that cool project
> > (org-mode) which I use so much"... but it's not something what I thing
> > should be extra useful. It can be done without adding a CITE block to the
> > html export backend. I need it only in one place - so probably not worth
> it.
> >
> > But still, any opinion on this? (I got really good encouragement on IRC
> to
> > write here)
>
> You can add a feature per export back-end, using, e.g., "ATTR_HTML"
> keyword:
>
>     #+attr_html: :cite The source
>     #+begin_quote
>     ...
>     #+end_quote
>
> For example, ox-texinfo supports :author for quotes:
>
>     #+attr_texinfo: :author ...
>     #+begin_quote
>     ...
>     #+end_quote
>
> See `org-texinfo-quote-block' for details.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Nicolas Goaziou
>


-- 
Emil Vatai

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Re: Possible feature request (but more of a request for comment/opinion)

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Emil Vatai <emil.vatai@gmail.com> writes:

> According to the developer.mozilla.org link, a quote and a citation should
> look like this:
>
>    <blockquote cite="https://www.huxley.net/bnw/four.html">
>        <p>Words can be like X-rays, if you use them properly – they'll go
> through anything. You read and you're pierced.</p>
>    </blockquote>
>    <cite>– Aldous Huxley, Brave New World</cite>

Note that according to some other site, I can see:

    <blockquote>
    Any inaccuracies in this index may be explained by the fact that it has been sorted with the help of a computer.<br>
    — from <cite>The Art of Computer Programming</cite> by Donald Knuth
    </blockquote>

> The quote part is straightforward in org-mode:
>
>     #+attr_html: :cite https://www.huxley.net/bnw/four.html
>
>     #+begin_quote
>     Words can be like X-rays, if you use them properly – they'll go through
> anything. You read and you're pierced.
>     #+end_quote
>
> But what to do with the:
>   <cite>– Aldous Huxley, Brave New World</cite>
> part?
>
> So I was (for a brief moment) motivated to implement #BEGIN/END_CITE for
> org-mode, but now it doesn't seem to make much sense to do so. I can
> implement it simply by adding an export html block (for the one situation I
> need it).
>
> Hopefully this example clarifies what my question is about.

As I suggested, "begin_cite ... end_cite" is not the way to go. If you
want to implement this, it should be an HTML attribute for the
"begin_quote ... end_quote" block. I gave you an example of such
implementation in my previous answer.

The issue, however, is that <cite>...</cite> only covers a part of the
reference, e.g.,

  — from <cite>The Art of Computer Programming</cite> by Donald Knuth

I think including the author is tolerated:

  — from <cite>The Art of Computer Programming by Donald Knuth</cite>

but the "from" part is still not within the <cite> tag. Therefore
a :cite attribute may not be useful.

Regards,