Re: Is it possible to keep /all/ the heading properties in one place?

[Oleh Krehel <ohwoeowho@gmail.com>]

Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:

> So is Lisp.

I like Lisp.

> It boils down to ask users to write Lisp by hand at some point. Not
> everyone wants to use interactive tools.

I claim that a user can get by without having to write a single line of
Lisp manually. M-x `customize' has been doing it successfully for years.

> Unfortunately, writing Lisp is not fun in a basic text editing
> environment.

Right, not in a basic one. But it's great in Emacs. And for others, they
could use `read' followed by a graphical tool like a TreeView widget,
followed by `prin1'. This Lisp is supposed to be so simple that a
`read'->`delete-sexp'->`prin1' is an `identity' operation.

> Here is the full Org property syntax:
>
> 3.7 Property Drawers
> ────────────────────
>
>   Property drawers are a special type of drawer containing properties
>   attached to a headline.  They are located right after a [headline] and
>   its [planning] information.
>
>   ┌────
>   │ HEADLINE
>   │ PROPERTYDRAWER
>   │ 
>   │ HEADLINE
>   │ PLANNING
>   │ PROPERTYDRAWER
>   └────
>
>   PROPERTYDRAWER follows the pattern
>
>   ┌────
>   │ :PROPERTIES:
>   │ CONTENTS
>   │ :END:
>   └────

Missed out the logging drawer and the tags. That's two things more out
of a single place than I'd like.

> I don't think this is very impressive nor particularly difficult to
> implement.

I get a headache just trying to imagine how I could hide the properties
/and/ the logging /and/ the tags into a single fold-able thing.

> You may want to have a look at "outline.el", which is Org without all
> the extra "stuff".

Already have been using it for years. I actually prefer outline.el to
org-babel for most things now. But not for GTD - for that I need Org.

> Alas, the Devil is in the detail:
>
>   (example
>    ...
>    (properties ...))

Not really. You see, the `beginning-of-defun' trick is: a defun is a
thing that starts in the first column (that's why we escape all parens
in the first column in Elisp). This trick has been working successfully
for decades. It's both fast and simple.

Since all Lisp properties are written to programmatically by Org, they
are always perfectly indented. And if a person wants to edit it
manually, he'll have to simply remember to `indent-sexp'.

> Anyway, at this point I don't know what to add.

Suggestion, and I've said it before, Org needs a standard simple inline
kbd markup. Just like Markdown's <kbd></kbd> and Texinfo's @kbd{}.
Since Org is tied into Emacs having an easy (and unambiguous) way to
denote keyboard shortcuts would be very convenient.

Adding that would also progress the direction of having Org be the
language for Emacs manuals. Right now, Org's own manual is in Texinfo,
which is a shame since no one likes Texinfo and few people understand
enough of it to get by.

> You want to improve Org and this is fine. However simplistic examples
> do not help understanding the full picture, at least for me. So,
> implement your idea, test the syntax, ask for feedback here. In the
> end, if it happens to be superior, users will naturally switch to it,
> for the benefit of everyone.

Thanks, I'll be trying that out. In the last week I've been archiving
most of my gtd.org. So the switch should be easier now.

Do we have a way in Org to archive a heading form anywhere into a memoir
format like this:

    * 2014
    ** 2014-01 January
    *** 2014-01-03 Thursday
    **** CANCELLED Foobar
    CLOSED: [2014-01-03 Fri 09:42] SCHEDULED: <2013-12-25 Wed>
    Added: [2013-08-08 Thu 17:38]
    **** DONE Baz
    CLOSED: [2014-01-03 Fri 17:12]

Each heading is archived into level 4, on the day it was closed.  I had
it working a few years ago, relying on org-archive.el. But when I tried
this week, it stopped working, so I had to rewrite it.

> You may also want to have a look at Skribilo
> (http://www.nongnu.org/skribilo/), if you don't know it already.

Thanks, I didn't know about it. It looks very similar to Racket's
Scribble, and my own ElTeX.